Mephiston

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Do Chaos Lords with Wings have to test for difficult terrain?

Yup.

 

teeef, the reason that assault marines with packs CAN'T avoid dangerous-terraining in the Space Wolf tempest is because of the wording of the power. It affects units by their type, not by movement. Moving like Infantry doesn't make you Infantry, otherwise you could move 6" and hop in a transport.

[Morticon]

"When using jump packs, they can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

You cannot pull the "However" sentence out of the book on its own and make the claim that even when moving as normal infantry they would take the test because that would be incorrect grammar.

 

 

I was going to argue based on exactly that, but wasnt sure it was enough!! Shot for the info teeef!! Good to know we can still walk through the terrain if need be.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

IIRC, the Space Wolf power makes it both Difficult AND Dangerous for those unit types. That's the problem. If it was just difficult, there would be no problem walking through.

[teeef]

IIRC, the Space Wolf power makes it both Difficult AND Dangerous for those unit types. That's the problem. If it was just difficult, there would be no problem walking through.

I was only responding to Mort's claim that he had mishandled his JP equipped troops, not to the larger SW psychic power issue. I will have to try to remember that Tempest power if I ever do play Space Wolves.

 

I know everyone complains about how GW gets a bit lazy in the editing so I won't waste time there. "That works how??? Why? Because sadly that is how it was written."

 

I think the Chaos Wings issue is not actually resolvable. Every time it comes up everyone acts as if it has been resolved but I haven't seen it. I play that it you are using the wings you move like jump infantry and all that that implies but if my opponent said that they have a Lord with wings and it isn't a jump pack and so the Lord is not jump infantry BEFORE we started rolling dice then I would be OK with that too. One thing I am sure of is that the Chaos Lord with wings can ride in a transport.

[the jeske]

lord with wings is not jump infantry , if he was it would be impossible to transport him . so the way it is worded . a footslogging jump packer tests and a flying lord does not . Not that it makes sense per fluff , but those are the rules.

[SamaNagol]

I was asking about the Chaos Lord with regards to 'moves like'. If a Chaos Lord has to test, then so does a Librarian using Wings

 

/

 

And none of Mephiston's psychic powers target Skulltaker, apart from his Force Weapon ID ability. Which he doesn't need to use as he has St10.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

330

 

Damn- that also means ive been playing jump infantry wrong for years now.

 

If you walk into DT, youre still liable for dangerous tests. Kinda sucky.

Actually I think this is wrong.

 

"Jump Infantry can use their jump packs (or equivalent) and move up to 12" in the Movement phase. This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish."

 

So, RAW you can move as normal infantry if you wish.

 

"When using jump packs, they can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

You cannot pull the "However" sentence out of the book on its own and make the claim that even when moving as normal infantry they would take the test because that would be incorrect grammar.

 

The sentence begins with "However,…." The comma is important because "however" used in this way is a conjunctive adverb. So even though it is in a separate sentence it is, by the rules of grammar, modifying the preceding sentence. Simply, this means that the "however" sentence only applies or has meaning "When using jump packs…" and cannot stand alone.

 

Like a lot of 40K you can always argue over the meaning of a sentence by taking it out of context but in this case it is incorrect grammatically and further that is really distorting the paragraph as a whole – taking weight off the first part and moving it to the last. If you are moving as normal infantry you follow the rules of normal infantry.

 

This does not clear up the arguments about wings and/or librarian wing-like powers as those models are neither using jump packs nor moving jump infantry models.

The point it was brought up about,was Tempest's wrath...which says nothing about how you are moving. It says..well..the relevant part says "Jump Infantry that finish their move within 24 inches of the Rune Priest treat all terrain,even clear terrain,as both difficult and dangerous." Makes no claims about Style of movement,just Types of units.

 

So yes,you follow the rules of normal infantry in regards to movement. However,just because you are walking does not change the type of troop you are in the codex,which in this case,is Jump Infantry. Yes It would make more sense if it was "Movement" based rather then just "Jump Infantry" but that's how it is.

 

As for the Jump power,It states that you move as if using a Jump Pack. So you would follow the Rules for using a Jump pack for that movement,but nothing else.

[JamesI]

So, whats to stop you from just casting Sword of Sang on Meph for Strength 10, giving Meph base Strength 10. Which neither targets the Daemon nor does any Psychic wounds to them. and saying "Mephiston chooses to use his Plasma Pistol for every attack" ?

In the same way a Libby Dread would choose to use its Claw or Force Weapon, and in choosing the claw gives up the ability to use the soul explode for that attack.

 

Its really unnecessary to try to explode things when you can generally kill them outright anyways.

The BRB says you must use a special CCW if you have it. Mephiston has a Force weapon, he has to use it. Plasma pistol is a normal CCW, you can not chose to use it over the force weapon.

 

Now, in the case of a Libby dread with a force weapon and a blood fist, you can certainly chose to use the blood fist (and of course you would in this situation!)