Helsreach Novel Discussion

[Iskariot]

It's almost always a shock when new fluff / back story for a army comes out. We have all seen it in the past codices and will see it in the future.

 

The same problems have the books of BL. We players read and live the fluff from the codex in a different way. Different to GW. Different to BL. Different to other players and fan-fiction writers.

 

I must admit: At first I was a bit shocked, how ADB portrayed the Templars. Especially Grimaldus.

The doubt in his heart. The refusal of the Champion and the Master of the Forge in the council. The "NO!" to Helbrechts order. ...

 

But I got used to it. And I started to like it.

Maybe you could say, I almost started to love, how the Templars are portrayed in Helsreach.

 

 

Marines are no normal mortals. But they have feelings. "Am I ready to lead 100 of my brethern in battle?" "Am I really ready for this honour? For this duty?" "Am I ready to lead them into certain death?"

 

Same goes with the "where, when and how" to die. Mordred has fought how many battles? Killed how many enemys? And how many big guys? How often was he a hero for the champter? He was, what, 400 years a mighty servant of the Emperor and the chapter?

 

Helbrecht send Grimaldus to die after 200 years of service. On his first and only command he should led ~ 100 of his fellow Templars into certain death. Probably without much honor.

 

 

A Space Marine will not live forever. His real family is long dead, when he dies. Most chapters don't really mourn their dead.

What stays is the memory of heroes.

To say it so: Mordred got a wohle chapter in the "BIG BLACK BOOK OF BLACK TEMPLARS"

Grimaldus? Maybe some sentences if he died at Helsreach?

 

 

 

Now some issues:

 

Orders

 

As far as I see, sometimes it is the job of a high-ranking chaplain to question the orders of the highmarshal. Because of his experience. In the first Horus Heresy novel it is explained : NAYSMITH

Maybe theres a better solution to the problem and the big boss just don't sees it.

 

Also, in armed forces of past and today.

Most of the time it is not necessary to follow the orders blindly. When that guy 100 or more meters behind you says: "Go right!" But there is a much better and safer way on the left with no disadvantages, left is maybe the better option.

I know it from the German Army. The guy 100 meters behind you says: "Advance and take that objective!"

The rest is up to the soldiers at the front.

 

The Knight Templars, Teutonic Order and such swore obedience in the history. But issues with the order could be adressed.

And after all, Grimaldus followed the order.

 

 

But I admit:

In the middle of a big meeting it wasn't a very good idea.

And there are situations, where following orders blindly is better...

 

 

Templars are the best!

 

1) It's true. Nothing under the Emperors Golden Throne is so badass like us!

 

2) Our medieval ancestors thought so. Why shouldn't we?

 

3) If you read books about other chapters, there stands something similar along the lines...

 

 

 

Differences between Salamanders and Templars

 

Every chapter has it's own styles, traditions and beliefs.

 

Salis belief in protecting civilians.

Templars kill everyone. Naturally, everyone threatens civilians. ^^

 

Marines shout, scram, sing in battle. Or can be silent like a grave. As said. It depends on the chapter.

 

From my self I can say:

With sword and shield in hand, my friends and comrades at my side and the enemy before me, I CAN'T BE SILENT.... ;)

 

 

 

Although, there were some good points made with the techmarine and the super-weapon, the gene-seed and such...

 

 

I hope ADB writes soon another book about the Templars. Maybe "WE, Helbrecht" ^^

[tyrannosaurus]

To be glib, here is tyrannosaurus's Helsreach:

".... and Helbrecht said to Grimaldus 'go down to Hive Helsreach and kill xenos'

and Grimaldus responded 'Yes, lord.' So Grimaldus went down to Helsreach. Grimaldus and his band of warriors killed orks on Helsreach. They were quiet and did not engage in idle chit-chat, for that is not the way of Astartes. They went here and killed orks. Then they went there and killed orks. In between here and there, they bumped into some orks, and killed them.

Priamus said 'Reclusiarch, many orks have we killed, and it is good.'

Grimaldus responded 'Indeed. But must you ruin the moment with your incessant chatter?'

Priamus saw his failing, and bowed in response.

 

Some Salamanders fought alongside the Templars. A problem arose as the Salamanders were interested in saving 10,000 civilians. Grimaldus realised they were being naive tree-huggers, as by killing the Warboss, they might let those 10K die, but would save 100K in their place. But the Salamanders pulled out their plushy of a human civilian and stroked it then handed it to Grimaldus, he relented from his experience as a 200 year old killing machine and took up the plushy, as a tear ran down his face. 'Aw shucks', thought Gimaldus, 'how could I resist that?'

 

And so Grimaldus acknowledged the Salamanders request by nodding his head and grunting confirmation, whilst the plushy was tucked under his left arm and he sucked his right thumb."

 

A good read?

 

When you read it with the right glasses on, ie ScienceFANTASY ones, then the errantness and loop-holes actually vanish.

 

I understand the genre of the novel, I even managed to find it on my own in the Fantasy section in the bookshop. I've read hundreds of fantasy novels over the years, with probably my favourite Warhammer author being Jack Yeovil. Lots of other authors have managed to achieve great characterisation without emo ""Life is pain" internal dialogues and infantile discussions during fighting. A lot of the time it was more like an episode of Jersey Shore.

 

What gets me laughing is how people want to view their faction in 40K. GW has set up GrimDark. It is not how I would have done it, but it is the setting we are in. Sisters of Battle, Inquisitors and Black Templars are all 100% GrimDark.

 

Then people go for factions, such as Ultramarines or Space Wolves [based on the William King books] who are not even GrimDark at all. They were University aged jocks getting sloshed at kegger parties and rushing into battle boozed and gung ho.

 

Templars are 100% GrimDark. If you don't like them being mean and aloof, then you perhaps don't really like 'real' 40K in the first place?

I understand why people don't, and that is proven by Space Wolves being the most popular Marine faction. But Templars are actually satisfying the requirements that GW wrote in the first place.

 

The Templars in this novel came across as childish and petulant, rather than mean and aloof, which was the biggest disappointment to me. I don't have a 'faction', as I can draw the line between fiction and reality [although I do have a favourite chapter/legion]. I love the whole 40K universe and don't feel it necessary to defend any particular part of it. Finally my whole point is that the characterisation spolit the 'GrimDarkness' for me. "Ïn the grim darkness of the far future elite warriors express their TRUE feelings to one another during battles, and only follow orders after a proper hissy fit".

[Icee77]

The Templar's "Childish" manner is because of their honor. Their brothers fight in the stars, with each strike most likely killing thousands of Orks. But they have to face certain death, while protecting citizens, totally unlike how Templars fight. They want to die with honor, charging into the xenos scum, but instead they have to hold back and protect useless fleshbags. And I never thought of the Marine's throwing tantrums, but instead trying to achieve as much glory while still holding back.