Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 So I'm putting the finishing touches on two of my IA and I have a few questions rolling around in my head. So if anyone could answer them I will buy you a flagon of grog at The Fang. First question concerns the genetic defects of the Blood Angels, I know that the RT and BR are in all of the BA succesor chapters except the Lamenters but the Lamenters are almost gone and suffer very bad luck. Well does anyone know how they removed the genetic defects? or have any ideas on how these could be removed from a succesor chapter fluff wise? My next question concerns the BR, RT and the SG. Is it possible for a member of the sanguinary guard to become subject to these ailments? I know they would be put into the tower but I'm not sure if they are susceptable to it as in my mind if they were they would have fallen into the madness long before they were elevated to their current rank? And lastly would it be possible for a member of the SA to turn to chaos? More specifically a marine who was a member during the HH? The way I see it is one of the SG who acompanied Sanguinious onto the flagship of Horus became seperated from his brothers (either by accident or to fullfill some mission like placing a bomb in a location) and while seperated he was confronted by a daemon. Instead of hashing it out the daemon tries to convert the SG. The words give the SG pause but just as he is about to tell the daemon to stick it the psychic shockwave created by the death of Sanguinious reachs all the BA. Either because he is wracked by pain or driven mad by his primarchs death the SG agrees and dissapears believed to have been lost in the explosion of the ship but in reality he was teleported away and now serves chaos. Well these are my questions and my reasoning behind the last one so any help would be appreciated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 My next question concerns the BR, RT and the SG. Is it possible for a member of the sanguinary guard to become subject to these ailments? I know they would be put into the tower but I'm not sure if they are susceptable to it as in my mind if they were they would have fallen into the madness long before they were elevated to their current rank? While the others I am not sure enough about to offer a definitive answer, I can handle this one. No one is safe from the Black Rage. The codex tells us that this is the lesson to be learned from Tycho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2408891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 Ok well theres one question answered Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2408905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 There was also a Captain who upon elevation to commander fell almost immediately to the Black Rage. It is in the COdex somewhere, along with how they changed the chapter structure, selection process. AS to the others, Sanguinary Guard going Chaos. Iw oud like to think not but you never know. They do see to be be very, very pure and how I think (read it in the codex) a good relationships to the Grey KNights who are to this day 100% pure and obviously do not tolerate chaos and probably view marines as morally inferior to themselves. SO if the Sang guard are good enough to hang with the Gk's chances are that they are the some of the most loyal of the loyal within the BA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2408909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turel Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Greetings Brother Bloodwolf, First question concerns the genetic defects of the Blood Angels, I know that the RT and BR are in all of the BA succesor chapters except the Lamenters but the Lamenters are almost gone and suffer very bad luck. Well does anyone know how they removed the genetic defects? or have any ideas on how these could be removed from a succesor chapter fluff wise? Have they removed the flaw? I was under the impression that all successors suffer the same thing. If they've gotten rid of it, I'm pretty sure the Blood Angels would demand to know how. Is it possible for a member of the sanguinary guard to become subject to these ailments? I know they would be put into the tower but I'm not sure if they are susceptable to it as in my mind if they were they would have fallen into the madness long before they were elevated to their current rank? As Brother Tahaal said, no-one is safe. It is less likely, and they would be able to resist it for much longer, but inevitably it could happen to anyone. And lastly would it be possible for a member of the SA to turn to chaos? Never! We are Blood Angels! Seriously though, I don't believe this could have happened, even given your scenario. The Blood Angels are the noblest and most loyal chapter, as Sanguinius himself proved. But then again, I am biased :P - Turel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2408912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 The Sanguinary guard themselves are not overly close to the Grey Knights but the chapter did fight alongside them against the Bloodthirster who fought Sanguinious during the seige of Terra and even if they were that close just because the GK are incouruptable dosent mean the SG are you know? only the Gk can be GKs As for the succesor chapter liberating themselves from their curse yes there is a succesor that has acomplished this as it says it in the codex (im not sure which page) but I am no longer 100% on which chapter did it. And as for the SG turning traitor we are all a little biased when it comes to our favorite chapters turning. I myself refuse to believe that any son of Russ could turn to chaos and they instead would beat the tar out of whatever tried to turn them and then tell all his mates about it over a drink. BUT anything is possible in the world of 40k. And my scenario is kind of playing off of the idea that the psychic backlash of Sanguinious' death was strongest at the moment of his fall. Add that to a few daemonic words about how the Emperor was weak for failing to see this betrayel and that it was his fault that Sanguinious was dead. That if he were to join chaos he would be granted the power to avenge his lord against those responsible. I think that with the combined psychic torment and the BAs love for Sanguinious the power to get revenge would be more than enough to turn even the most devout of Blood Angels. I am creating this as a background for my chaos lord as I am making mirror armies based off of the war in heaven so angels vs fallen angels/demons and such. Another part of my story is that the fallen SG dosent worship any of the gods as his loyalty to Sanguinous is stronger than any failty he could have to the chaos gods. Like Horus he merely sees them as a tool to achieve his goals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 The Lamenters are free of the Flaw, but in turn have very bad luck. This is true. It's also true that the Blood Angels have tried to contact them on numerous occasions, but the Lamenters have never answered back. It's likely that the Lamenteres won't heed Dante's current call for assistance either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Ok it was the Lamenters I read the codex for the first time today and I thought it said it was a differant chapter. But yea werent they apart of the 13th founding? The one were EVERY chapter founded in that period have horrible luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 No Blood Angel has ever turned to Chaos. Blood Angels are genetically coded to absolutely hate all things Chaos & it was part of the master plan by Sanguinius. The only other completely pure chapter are Grey Knights. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 No Blood Angel has ever turned to Chaos. Blood Angels are genetically coded to absolutely hate all things Chaos & it was part of the master plan by Sanguinius. The only other completely pure chapter are Grey Knights. G And where does it say this exactly? I dont get how they are genetically coded to hate all things chaos as there genetic heritage was created before chaos became widely known to the Imperium. Also if they have that level of controle over their gene seed wouldent they have removed the flaws that create the red thirst and black rage? I mean if there is a credited source that says not a single Blood Angel has ever fallen to chaos then I'll concede the issue but untill then I respectfully find it hard to believe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 The Black Rage is a direct tie to the death of Sanguinius at the hands of the supreme traitor Horus. So no they can't remove that characteristic from their geneseed. Blood Angels inherently despise all things Chaos. Other Chapters such as the Iron Hands also had their primarches killed by Chaos but did not suffer such a drastic effect as the Black Rage. 0b ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Also (sorry to burst your bubble) Space Wolves are officially documented as having some members going over to the side of Chaos, the story appears in the new CSM codex. Basically a SW battlebarge is boarded by Astral Claws and a huge fight breaks out. The Space Wolves are losing, fallback to the command center to make a final stand then a group of Space Wolves who decide to turn over to Chaos shoot all their brothers in the back killing all of the still loyal Space Wolves. 0b ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Greetings Brother Bloodwolf, First question concerns the genetic defects of the Blood Angels, I know that the RT and BR are in all of the BA succesor chapters except the Lamenters but the Lamenters are almost gone and suffer very bad luck. Well does anyone know how they removed the genetic defects? or have any ideas on how these could be removed from a succesor chapter fluff wise? Have they removed the flaw? I was under the impression that all successors suffer the same thing. If they've gotten rid of it, I'm pretty sure the Blood Angels would demand to know how. Is it possible for a member of the sanguinary guard to become subject to these ailments? I know they would be put into the tower but I'm not sure if they are susceptable to it as in my mind if they were they would have fallen into the madness long before they were elevated to their current rank? As Brother Tahaal said, no-one is safe. It is less likely, and they would be able to resist it for much longer, but inevitably it could happen to anyone. And lastly would it be possible for a member of the SA to turn to chaos? Never! We are Blood Angels! Seriously though, I don't believe this could have happened, even given your scenario. The Blood Angels are the noblest and most loyal chapter, as Sanguinius himself proved. But then again, I am biased ;) - Turel. actually, the lamenters have removed the flaw, but the amount of bad luck that seems to have come with it didn't exactly help them out much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinzel Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Firstly I have no doubt that Blood Angels are like every single other chapter in the Imperium and that some of their number have fallen over the years, maybe not many but at least a few. The only chapter who are completely uncorruptible are Grey Knights as they were designed specifically to counter daemons. The Lamenters had their RT / BR removed by AdMech experimentation on their geneseed during their creation but they now suffer from horrendously bad luck. (I believe they were part of the 21st or 'cursed founding') Last I read on them they had been completely overrun by the Tyranids of Hive fleet Kraken along with the Scythes of the Emperor and either destroyed or with very few marines left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Does anyone know of any official background that actually cites a Blood Angel as going over to Chaos? 0b ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 The Black Rage is a direct tie to the death of Sanguinius at the hands of the supreme traitor Horus. So no they can't remove that characteristic from their geneseed. Blood Angels inherently despise all things Chaos. Other Chapters such as the Iron Hands also had their primarches killed by Chaos but did not suffer such a drastic effect as the Black Rage. 0b ;) Actually they can remove it as is being discussed with the Lamenters (though the cost may unworth it). And I again were does it say that no Blood Angel has ever fallen to chaos? As for the Space Wolves I am aware of issue concerning The Wolf of Fenris and it is a shame that will be avenged B) but it reiterates that just because someone is biased (like I am towards wolves) and says their chapter would NEVER turn to chaos that it isnt exactly true and that anything can happen. And also just about every chapter despises chaos but they still have members who fall. Kinzel: The Lamenters are still kicking. There are only about 300 left but they are still out there fighting the good fight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Turning to Chaos would be pretty desperate for a Blood Angel seeing as they have the memories of their primarch murdered by the chosen of Chaos Undivided imprinted into their gene code. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilmixer Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Does anyone know of any official background that actually cites a Blood Angel as going over to Chaos? 0b ;) I belive there was Arkio (also known as Arkio the Blessed and the Reborn Angel), who is working for chaos, until he got killed by his brother Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Does anyone know of any official background that actually cites a Blood Angel as going over to Chaos? 0b :huh: Ah but thats not what was asked. You said that no Blood Angel has ever turned to chaos and I doubt that there is any credited GW fluff that says so because besides the GK there is always a possibility of turning to chaos. Just because there may be no fluff saying that a Blood Angel has fallen to chaos dosent mean that it hasent happened. SamaNagol: Im not sure so dont quote me on this but not every Blood Angel sees those visions of Sanguinous' death unless they are aflicted by the Black Rage. Also in my fluff my Sanguinary character was actually alive during the Horus Heresy and it was the initial psychic impact that unhinged his mind and with the daemons cleverly chosen words he turned. So while I do slightly agree that the visions of their primarchs death would be a pretty strong deterant I dont think it applies to my idea as modern Blood Angels have been affected by the visions for thousands of years. For the Blood Angels of the Horus Heresy it was a brand new experience. For me it was the image of Sanguinious' death that drove my character to seek revenge for his beloved primarch. Greif can be a powerfull thing And also I am going to change a statement I made earlier. I was mistaken about the Sanguinary Guard fighting alongside the Grey Knights. I thought it was the entire chapter that fought but I was wrong. Does give AWESOME images though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 So what is the general consinsus on a HH era Sanguinary Guard turning to chaos? Is it just as possible as every other chapter having a marine turn? from what I am seeing it seems like the general idea is that it is possible for it to happen but is fairly unlikely? I mean I think its the same as asking if a member of the Wolf Guard or Death Guard would turn. Or for that matter asking if Ultra Marines honour guard would turn. In all it would seem impossible BUT in the same breath there are entire chapters that turn to chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 So what is the general consinsus on a HH era Sanguinary Guard turning to chaos? Is it just as possible as every other chapter having a marine turn? from what I am seeing it seems like the general idea is that it is possible for it to happen but is fairly unlikely? I mean I think its the same as asking if a member of the Wolf Guard or Death Guard would turn. Or for that matter asking if Ultra Marines honour guard would turn. In all it would seem impossible BUT in the same breath there are entire chapters that turn to chaos. It is Possible for any Marine,Other then the Grey Knights,to fall to Chaos. Some Chapters have it happen far more rarely then others. I think your explanation of when,how and why your SG fell to Chaos makes alot more sense and is more likely then one having it happening now. Especially as there are Certain Chapters that will go out of their way to hunt down any of their brethren that have fallen. Of those,I see Blood Angels and Space Wolves as the most likely to hunt down traitors. So I could definitely see you having in the Fluff repeated attempts at wiping your chaos champion out by Blood Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 I'm glad you said that because my mirror army to my chaos one (the good angels) is of course a successor to the Blood Angels known as the White Guard and they are a member of the Astartes Praeses. Besides guarding against invasions from the Eye of Terror their objective tasked to them by Dante upon the chapters creation is hunting down my traitor SG character (I really need to come up with a name for him, I know I'm going to call him the Black Angel but I'm searching for names of fallen angels to see what I like). I know this is kind of like the Dark Angels and would better suit one of their successors but I havent made this the sole task of the White Guard and so it is not the main drive of the chapter to find him. He is just the chapters most hated enemy. Note: For those of you who read this and it said Blood Ravens that was an accident Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcm979 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 But the Ravens aren't Angels successors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcm979 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Note: For those of you who read this and it said Blood Ravens that was an accident That's incredibly relieving. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Seeing SG are brand new I think Jarl's theory is pretty much what you call bull hockey putting it politely. I can understand why another SW player would see it as feasible though... Chapter envy. 0b :D I am not sure what SG being a new creation of GW has anything to do with my theory? Now if you are refering to fluff then the SG are not brand new as they were the bodyguard of Sanguinious so that makes the order roughly about 10,000 years old. As far as chapter envy there have been ultiple answers in this post from players who are not necissarily Space Wolves players saything that while they would like to think it wouldent happen it is still possible. Now your opinion on my idea is fine its your opinion and no one can fault you for having it. If you dont like it then im sorry it dosent work for you, but just because you said something and couldent reasonably support it dosent mean you can be rude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/202166-black-ragered-thirst-and-sanguinary-guard/#findComment-2409818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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