20 Nob Bikers

[Morticon]

Even though Mephiston has psychic powers,he is not a Psyker and thus is not affected by anti-psyker specific Powers.

 

That, I didn't know...

 

Thats okay matey, maybe you didnt "know" it cause its not true. :lol:

Mephiston is a psyker. (pg. 82 - special Rules)

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Even though Mephiston has psychic powers,he is not a Psyker and thus is not affected by anti-psyker specific Powers.

 

That, I didn't know...

 

Thats okay matey, maybe you didnt "know" it cause its not true. :P

Mephiston is a psyker. (pg. 82 - special Rules)

So even though unlike every other Psyker I can think of,the fact that he doesn't have the Psyker special rule in his description doesn't mean he can ignore psyker specific things "Culexus's assassin's special abilites and such"?

 

As you can guess,this is one more reason to be annoyed at the guy. Any other of the things I listed false? Those are all things that the BA player has said was truth.

[SamaNagol]

A Priest's 6 inch bubble gives the Feel no Pain and Furious Charge to whoever was within 6 inches at the start of the phase for the duration of that phase.

 

No, it gives Furious Charge to anyone who is within 6" at the start of an assault move, and gives Feel No Pain to anyone within 6" at any time.

[Morticon]

So even though unlike every other Psyker I can think of,the fact that he doesn't have the Psyker special rule in his description doesn't mean he can ignore psyker specific things "Culexus's assassin's special abilites and such"?

 

He does have the "psyker" rule in his description. Both of em. So no- he cant ignore psyker specific things like the Culexus' special abilities etc.

[Jakobus]

I believe what I would field against Nob biker army would be 3 Baals with Flamestorm and Heavy flamers them put in some TLHF Razorbacks. And if you feel the urge a LRR will be more than welcome. This will result in them only getting the FNP save from the Painboy unless they have Cybork bodies.

 

Sure there will be a bucket of attacks thrown back at you, but your speed negates their WS4 and the Waaagh! banner.

 

Now assuming you have a good eye at estimating your distances you could attempt to crowd the unit by parking these razorbacks on the edge of the unit which will mean they have to move in closer together to maintain coherency. They are now corraled for more hits on the squad. Especially if the unit in the Razorback happens to be equipped with a flamer.

 

Yes there is the issue that there will probably be a couple of Nobz left that are well within charge range of a couple of your tanks but with such a huge point sink Deffstar unit every boy that goes down is a big loss at 60 to 80 points per guy.

 

Just keep an eye on wound allocation, since you will want to know if the painboy goes down and they loose FNP

[Requiem of the Wolf]

So even though unlike every other Psyker I can think of,the fact that he doesn't have the Psyker special rule in his description doesn't mean he can ignore psyker specific things "Culexus's assassin's special abilites and such"?

 

He does have the "psyker" rule in his description. Both of em. So no- he cant ignore psyker specific things like the Culexus' special abilities etc.

He showed me the list that showed the universal special rules,and that since it didn't have psyker with the fleet,and they shall know no fear bit that he wasn't affected. In looking back over that page again,I see where it says psyker underneath it.Where he was holding the codex...

 

Morticon,are there any other claims that guy made that I wrote down that are inaccurate too? Sorry to keep asking all these questions guys..

[Priest33]

ugh sucks man sounds liket eh dude cheated you good. or cheated himself *shrug* either way, scratch the game from your mind and try not to play him in future.

[Crynn]

I feel bad for going off at you before now cause that guy you played is a regular ass. If I were you, whenever you play him make sure he has his codex with him at all times so you can check the rules. Either that or just dont play someone who is such an ass, you were obviously nice enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Blood talons reroll wounds not hits.

Meph is a psycher

Yes you do need 2 blood talons to get the additional attacks that are generated on any UNSAVED wounds.

 

I think mort covered it all anyway

[Demoulius]

mistakes happen and the codex is still fairly new. before you accuse someone of cheating confront him with the mistakes, sitting down with him and showing him the things he did wrong. whatever hes a friend or not its a shame to alienate someone over one (or a few more) games right? if not id barely have anyone to play against :cry:

 

mistakes happen guys

[Priest33]

Yeap Mistakes happen. Holding your finger over the part where it says Psyker in mephs rules is out right cheating.

 

Burn the witch.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Yeap Mistakes happen. Holding your finger over the part where it says Psyker in mephs rules is out right cheating.

 

Burn the witch.

3 Tournaments to be exact. Yes..Mistakes happen. And yes,up until the second tournament playing him,I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt because I figured they would know their own codex. I started getting suspicious when it seemed that my experiences playing against Blood Angels,seemed to be completely at odds with almost everyone else here. What I was experienceing was seeming to be a stupidly overpowered Codex. From my experience playing ONLY this Blood angel player,no one else playing them...And then when everyone on this board pretty much was going "no these actually don't work all that well or they work but not too much better then normal" It started me questioning things. And then after a lot of questions,and a almost complete derailment of this thread (for which I apologize to the OP) It seems that every time I turn around,I found something else that he had 'forgotten'

 

Anyways..Thanks again to all of you for the answers and advice you all gave. And most of all for being patient with me. It really is greatly appreciated. I truely wish that my experiences in playing against Blood Angels would have been with people like you. I might still have lost,But I know it would have been honest and fair. You all are a Credit to your Chapter and its beliefs.

[Demoulius]

Yeap Mistakes happen. Holding your finger over the part where it says Psyker in mephs rules is out right cheating.

 

Burn the witch.

3 Tournaments to be exact. Yes..Mistakes happen. And yes,up until the second tournament playing him,I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt because I figured they would know their own codex. I started getting suspicious when it seemed that my experiences playing against Blood Angels,seemed to be completely at odds with almost everyone else here. What I was experienceing was seeming to be a stupidly overpowered Codex. From my experience playing ONLY this Blood angel player,no one else playing them...And then when everyone on this board pretty much was going "no these actually don't work all that well or they work but not too much better then normal" It started me questioning things. And then after a lot of questions,and a almost complete derailment of this thread (for which I apologize to the OP) It seems that every time I turn around,I found something else that he had 'forgotten'

 

Anyways..Thanks again to all of you for the answers and advice you all gave. And most of all for being patient with me. It really is greatly appreciated. I truely wish that my experiences in playing against Blood Angels would have been with people like you. I might still have lost,But I know it would have been honest and fair. You all are a Credit to your Chapter and its beliefs.

ah i mist the part in where it was fact that he did it frequently :) burn the witch, kill the heretic. players like that shouldnt play at all but stick to first person shooters or something....

[SamaNagol]

I dont let anyone do anything unless they can show me where it says they can.

 

Didn't bring your rule book, codex and FAQ? Can't do it then.

[Frustrashun]

As the Emperor said: "Know thy Codex."

 

I won't re-hash all the differences between Furiosos and DC dreads since that's been covered, but bottom-line is DC dreads have fleet while Furiosos do not.

 

One thing I will point out though is that, and hopefully someone can clarify this for me since I'm still uncertain on this, if the DC dread is hanging out with a chappy or reclus he'll get to re-roll both failed to hit and failed to wound rolls (Liturgies of Hate). I'm not sure that Liturgies of Hate would extend to a DC dread considering its unit type is vehicle(walker). But if it does, that might allow the DC dread to re-roll both hits and wounds.

 

Has anyone considered a Furioso libby for dealing with the nob bikerz? With Wings of Sanguinius he should be able to keep pace with the Bikerz or catch them offguard if played intelligently, and if he's got Sword of Sanguinius as his second power he's hitting at S10 with a force weapon. A pair of them working in tandem would be brutal if one has Sword of Sanguine and the other had Unleash Rage. Fear of the Darkness could also hose them fairly bad, considering it's a morale test and not a leadership test, AND at -2 to the score, they'd run off their leadership score (they are still orks) rather than getting to use their fearless rule for unit size. Someone else just mentioned how brutal Fear of the Darkness is against ork units.

 

I'm surprised no one has said a couple of Baal preds with Flamestorm cannons. Ridiculous versus Nob bikerz. Baal Preds are fast, can outflank with scout moves, and with Flamestorm cannons they're negating the cloud of dust 4+ save, and hitting with S6 - AP3, so wounding on 3+ and denying the 4+ armor save that the Bikerz would get (unless of course they have an invuln save, but 5+ is bleh). And the bikerz would be hard pressed to retaliate, needing 6s to hit (although if they do land it hit it could be brutal versus AV10). Only problem is the Flamestorm wouldn't kill the 2 wound models outright, but definitely would soften them up.

[Gunhead]

One thing I will point out though is that, and hopefully someone can clarify this for me since I'm still uncertain on this, if the DC dread is hanging out with a chappy or reclus he'll get to re-roll both failed to hit and failed to wound rolls (Liturgies of Hate). I'm not sure that Liturgies of Hate would extend to a DC dread considering its unit type is vehicle(walker). But if it does, that might allow the DC dread to re-roll both hits and wounds.

 

As it's a Unit only ever made up of a single model, IC's can't join it, so no Rerolls to Hit.

 

Has anyone considered a Furioso libby for dealing with the nob bikerz? With Wings of Sanguinius he should be able to keep pace with the Bikerz or catch them offguard if played intelligently, and if he's got Sword of Sanguinius as his second power he's hitting at S10 with a force weapon. A pair of them working in tandem would be brutal if one has Sword of Sanguine and the other had Unleash Rage. Fear of the Darkness could also hose them fairly bad, considering it's a morale test and not a leadership test, AND at -2 to the score, they'd run off their leadership score (they are still orks) rather than getting to use their fearless rule for unit size. Someone else just mentioned how brutal Fear of the Darkness is against ork units.

 

Yeah, there's been some mentions of Fear. As to the Libby Furi, they can already strike at Str 10 with their Blood Fist, so no need to take SS unless you tend to get pummeled with fire from range and lose the Fist. Wings/UR is probably the best option for Libby Furiosos - 3's to Hit, with Rerolls, 2's to ID, no save unless they have an invulnerable.

 

I'm surprised no one has said a couple of Baal preds with Flamestorm cannons. Ridiculous versus Nob bikerz. Baal Preds are fast, can outflank with scout moves, and with Flamestorm cannons they're negating the cloud of dust 4+ save, and hitting with S6 - AP3, so wounding on 3+ and denying the 4+ armor save that the Bikerz would get (unless of course they have an invuln save, but 5+ is bleh). And the bikerz would be hard pressed to retaliate, needing 6s to hit (although if they do land it hit it could be brutal versus AV10). Only problem is the Flamestorm wouldn't kill the 2 wound models outright, but definitely would soften them up.

 

Aye, they've started mentioning that.

[Demoulius]

well most nob bikers also got FNP and some other funky upgrades. if they would have a 5++ they would effectivly have a 5+ and a 4+ save, which all together would still be able to negate alot of those wounds...

 

the thing to keep in perspective here is that whilst they are capable of killing loads, dont get tunnel vision. dont throw every thing you have at them and ignore the rest of that army....i made that mistkae myself once and luckily we dident get to finish taht game because i would have been beaten....severly....with my own arms :ermm:

[Jakobus]

well most nob bikers also got FNP and some other funky upgrades. if they would have a 5++ they would effectivly have a 5+ and a 4+ save, which all together would still be able to negate alot of those wounds...

 

the thing to keep in perspective here is that whilst they are capable of killing loads, dont get tunnel vision. dont throw every thing you have at them and ignore the rest of that army....i made that mistkae myself once and luckily we dident get to finish taht game because i would have been beaten....severly....with my own arms :ermm:

 

Of course a Warboss + 9 Nobz and a Painboy on Bikes, with a large helping of PKs will be nasty it is half of the army unless you are doing 2,000+ pts. I guess it comes down to what else is being fielded in the army.

You will probably disrupt his entire battle plan by charging in with TH/SS termies from a Landraider and just keeping them from achieving anything else

[Priest33]

They wouldnt get their FNP from things that ignore their armor save, such as the dreds mephy ext, but yes against the BBQ baal they would get a fnp as well.

 

Easiest way to deal with them is throw things that dont mean much to you at them then remove the rest of his army from play with a simular death star unit. (of which we have many)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The best way to quickly kill nob bikers is lots of attacks that ignore armor saves and high strength that insta gib them. Meltas, power fists, DCCWs, demolisher rounds, etc. They will always get their 3+ or 4+ cover save against shooting so the large blast template is fickle. Meltas & power fists are best. When the ork player has to pull a full model for one wound and cannot take advantage of the complex unit then the nobs start to die real quick.

 

0b

[exterminatus_by_boltfire]

Hsvn't gotten my hands on the new codex yet, but assuming a few core things havn't changed much; Why not go for a hammer-and-anvil tactic?

 

hammer:

- pair of Baals to harass the hell out of the nobs

 

Anvil:

- Unit of sniper scouts at long range to pick off a nob or two in hope to force a pinning test (maybe two units)

- vindicator pie plates to keep a "no drive zone" in front of your army (sure! drive your green asses within 24"!)

- techmarine with shooty-servators (multi-melta or plasma)

 

Back the anvil with a couple of shooty tac squads to support the Vindicator(s) with bolter fire for the 24" zone and keep the pressure up with missle launchers for longer range.

 

Generic yes. But when used with a refused flank formation, its effective against a very mobile opponent kitted out for CC so long as you can get one good turn of shooting in and concentrated fire should cripple the units before they can get into combat (usually no later than turn 3, and usually on turn 2 sadly).

Then its a matter of waltzing out some assault-specialists (DC VAS HG dreads whatever) to either sweep up the remainders or bolster your forces in prolonged assault.

 

That being said; the overall survivabilty of the nobs is VERY impressive, doing a little of the math hammer, not counting pie plate deaths, easily a small number of the nobs from unit A can make it to CC depending on the dice, and most if not ALL from unit B (assuming its two units of 10)

which further makes this tactic very risky if your oppenent is smart enough to spread the wounds around, or has enough cover to snake in without exposing much to shoot at.

[foster]

Unfortunatly I can't rely on Krak Missiles, Meltas or Ordanance to do enough damage to Nob Bikers, since their cover save is 3+ when they boost. I'd be lucky to kill more then one in a turn of shooting. That's why I added lots of Powerfists in my new list so I can have enough Str 8 attacks to deal with the bikers, even if I don't get the charge I stand a good chance at wiping them out.

 

HQ

Mesphiston 250pts

Elites

Chaplain with Jump Pack 115pts

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack and Power Fist 100pts

10 Terminators with 6 Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields and 4 pairs of Lightning Claws 430pts

Troops

10 man Assault Squad with Power Fist and 2 Flamers 225pts

10 man Death Company with Lemartes, 4 Power Fists and Jump packs 600pts

Transport

Fast Attack

Baal Predator with Heavy Bolter side sponsons 145pts

Baal Predator with Heavy Bolter side sponsons 145pts

 

2000pts

 

I figure that deep striking will be my friend here, dropping Death Company and teleporting Assault Terminators right into the Bikers laps. Hopefully getting into combat with the two Nob Bikers units and wiping eachother out. Expensive sacrifice but when you're dealing with over 1000pts of Nob Bikers I think it's worth the cost.

 

Mephiston, Chappy, Priest will be with the Assault Squad doing what they know best, while the Baals will be busy outflanking the remainder of his forces.

 

I'm worried if 4 Powerfists in the Death Company will be enough to wipe out a Biker Unit. I figured that 16 str8 attacks should be enough, but if I faced any Chopper I'm going to lose a few Powerfists, leaving me with not enough attacks to wipe them out.

 

Btw Thanks for all the tips, hopefully I can manage to win the game I'm having with my brother. He's been complaining about his army winning against everyone he's ever played. I reckon this list will be challenging enough please him.

[SamaNagol]

Multiple Vindicators is your best bet. 3++ isn't that great when you are rolling a lot of them. And it's the only way to remove them from the table in one go.

 

If you are forcing Nob Bikerz to turbo boost then you can always move your transports 12 and continue to drop pie plates on them from max range.