Deathwing: help with the washes

[Tanhausen]

Hi all,

 

Primed in white, an earth base, a light tan then bleached bone.

 

To that point, I want to do a wash and basically just touch up the big plates with some bleached bone. Doesn't have to be Golden Demon... I just want my army painted :devil:

 

However, I'm having TROUBLE with the wash (sepia).

 

This one is just airbrush straight from Vallejo ( Game Ink Sepia):

 

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv140/T3mp4n0/IMG00042-20100602-2233.jpg?t=1275511512

 

I agree: terrible xD

 

This one is done by brush:

 

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv140/T3mp4n0/IMG00043-20100602-2233.jpg?t=1275511512

 

Yep, better... but don't know if its enough...

 

This one by brush, adding 1 drop of ink : 10 drops of water/windowcleaner : 1 drop of alcohol

 

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv140/T3mp4n0/IMG00046-20100602-2233.jpg?t=1275511512

 

As you can see I tried different mixes...but still don't quite like it.

 

So please... any help? How can I make the wash stick to the detail and not simply flood the mini? I'd like a techinque for airbrush...

[MattCrawford]

To be honest, you might have more luck with a painting technique than a washing one. The way that ink looks in the pallet, I wouldn't let it near ANY of my minis.

 

As a spray technique, you can do layering from an angled top-down spray and then touch up details with a paintbrush. I forget the technical name, but the steps are easy enough to remember:

 

1) Prime your model as per normal with a dark color

2) Spray a dark basecoat all over, not too thick

3) Do successively lighter sprays, with the model standing and your spray gun positioned nearly directly above it.

 

I've seen it in action, the technique works pretty well. If you're really stuck on washes, I'd just find some GW wash (read: not ink) and apply it with a brush.

[Tanhausen]

Ink=wash :P

 

As always with the language issues... GW translates wash as "tinta" (ink) to spanish... since Vallejo is spanish, I guess they did it the same way around ;)

 

Its not really that I'm stuck on washes... I'm looking for a simple techinque that doesn't require a good hand with painting and just looks decent on table :yes:

 

Thanks for the input!

[winterdyne]

To be honest, you might have more luck with a painting technique than a washing one. The way that ink looks in the pallet, I wouldn't let it near ANY of my minis.

 

As a spray technique, you can do layering from an angled top-down spray and then touch up details with a paintbrush. I forget the technical name, but the steps are easy enough to remember:

 

1) Prime your model as per normal with a dark color

2) Spray a dark basecoat all over, not too thick

3) Do successively lighter sprays, with the model standing and your spray gun positioned nearly directly above it.

 

I've seen it in action, the technique works pretty well. If you're really stuck on washes, I'd just find some GW wash (read: not ink) and apply it with a brush.

 

It's called zenital highlighting, and it's a pretty easy way to get very good quality results. You still need a steady hand to get the details done afterward, but the wash work needed is really quite minimal. It's the method I use on most commissioned miniatures, with only 'touch up' highlighting done by hand to make 'em pop.

[Hemal]

What are you trying to do?

 

Are you trying to get instant shading or a general grubby appearance across the whole armour, tinmting it darker? If the latter - washing the whole model with a thinned wash is fine. If the former, you want to really only apply in the recessed areas, The brushed model looks fine, though you will have to reapply a light, thin layer of the basecoat to neaten up (you could do this by airbrush with a narrow spray cone, but I have no experience of that) and get that shading effect more pronounced. Anotehr option would be to brush on badab black in the recesses only to make it stand out more. I'm afraid that if you are aiming for a good to medium quality tabletop finish, you will have to spend a bit more time than you are wanting to do on the models...

[Tanhausen]

@winterdyne

 

I remember seeing a tutorial of yours... right?

 

Cenital airbrushing...someone talked me about it but I think I didn't get the concept because the first layer (earth) came out SOLID (which I didn't mind).

 

The Light Tan, again SOLID. I thought, ok... I guess it doesn't matter.

 

The Bleached Bone, SOLID. So I guess its more of me being a "crippled" painter xDDD

 

I'm trying to learn to go SLOWER, and not doing the colour in just one stroke... but I don't have that much time and I do get a bit like "come onnnnnnnn" xD

 

@Hemal

 

Spot on reply, thanks.

 

Truth is the project is more like "in an afternoon, having the 26 termies finished".

 

And by finished I mean the armour with a bleached bone colour (a bit clearer probably) and very basic touchpus (weapons, aquilas an so on: striaght to bolter/mithril or to brown/copper, by brush).

 

Action plan:

 

The other 23 termies and 2 dreadnoughts are only in earth brown... a nice solid base colour.

 

What I'll try is doing cenital airbrushing only with light tan... having a bit of patience of not trying to cover the model injust one go.

 

Now with Bleached Bone.

 

After, I'll give a LIGHT wash of sepia with windowcleaner and alcohol and all.

 

*** I've read that giving a light cover of varnish makes the wash run into the detail... would you try it?

 

After that, touch up with normal brush.

 

Thanks for the CC, I appreciate them!

[Hemal]

tankers certainly use gloss varnish to make the shading washes run into the recesses. For glazes/tints they use matte or very lightly smeared on pigment as otherwise you get a pooling effect when all you want is a darkening/tinting effect.

[Tanhausen]

So matte varnish (not glossy... don't know in English)... the one that doesn't shine at all?

 

I'll give it a try B)

[MattCrawford]

Ink=wash ;)

 

As always with the language issues... GW translates wash as "tinta" (ink) to spanish... since Vallejo is spanish, I guess they did it the same way around :P

 

Its not really that I'm stuck on washes... I'm looking for a simple techinque that doesn't require a good hand with painting and just looks decent on table :lol:

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Really? Thats pretty bad on their part, since there's a BIG difference between an ink and a wash in English. Bad GW. Bad, bad GW.

 

Honestly, washing with a brush doesn't require a good hand. Judging by the look of the Vallejo wash you have in your pallet (far too thick and gunky IMO), you'd be better off with Devlan Mud or Ogryn Flesh washes. You don't need a good painting hand, because you apply it all over the model - the only thing you need to be careful about is making sure 1) it gets in the recesses; 2) that you don't add too much. Step 1 is easy, and Step 2 just involves cleaning off your brush and soaking up any excess. All you do afterwards is a light drybrush of BB and you're ready to go.

[Tanhausen]

(Didn't think you guys would be so perfectionists.. :lol:)

 

Forgot to say: those pics are 4 hours later... so the solution had dried up ;) The actual texture is very much as a GW wash (once you dilute it).

 

I'll paint up 3 models (light tan and bleached bone) and try:

 

- very light passes with the wash with airbrush

- very light passes with the wash with brush ... though it should look like pic 2 or pic 3

- matte varnish and very light passes with the wash with airbrush

 

As for the "back to the bone" process... I was thinking more of a thinned layer of bleached bone, as I'm not very fond of dry brushing anything that is not HEAVILY detailes (such as fur).

 

Thanks for the comments!

[Hemal]

I'd actually use glss and only apply the wash to the recesses as then it will provide shading rather than a glaze - matte will result in a glaze effect - i.e. it will tint the base colour, as well as pooling if allowed in the recesses

[Red Fury]

Ink=wash

Not in GWs world its not the same. Inks you have to make into a wash (like what you are doing) where as the GW washes are ready to apply straight out of the pot, and they are fantastic! I've used a lot of inks and washes through the years and the washes that GW makes now are really amazingly easy to use to get great results.

 

I don't think airbrushing a wash will work. The wash would be nearly dry by the time it hits the model...and it is more of a pain to load up and clean the airbrush then it is to just slop on some GW wash with a big brush.

 

If you want to paint them all fast then here is my suggestion to you:

1. Base coat in tan

2. Highlight with bleached bone

3. Apply a liberal wash

4. Hand paint some details like the gun, aquila, etc.

5. Finish with a Matte Varnish from a spray can

 

So completely cover it in tan and then just spray bleached bone from the top down onto the mini. Slop on a heavy wash using something like Gryphon Sepia from GW or something darker like Ogryn Flesh (Or use army painter quickshade). Paint some detail so that it is not all the same color, seal it with a Matte Varnish, and flock the base.

 

-Fury

[narius]

Hi mate, If you're trying to get the mini's done quickley, how about priming white, do a brush wash of gryphonne sepia (GW Wash) let it thorougly dry then use P3 Jack Bone, it's pretty much the same as Bleached bone but it goes on more like a foundation paint so it will cover quicker than bleached bone. For a simple highlight, mix 1:1 Skull white and Jack bone, maybe with a final extreme highlight of skull white. Hope that helps:-)

[ArcticFox]

This is one of the reasons I almost never use washes anymore. Shading white is tricky because unless it's really subtle you tend to get a model that looks dirty, not shaded. In these cases, using a very light blue wash can work but I like to reserve that for when I'm trying to convey something magical, as in my Warhammer Fantasy minis.

 

For white, in my humble opinion, you're probably better off basing it in gray and building up to the white highlights in layers. Don't bother with the wash.

[Obliterator]

If you want your minis done fast and still looking good, I'd check out Army Painters Quickshade range. There's a special light Quickshade to use with light colors. They even have a painted example of a Deathwing terminator using their materials and techniques: linkage.

 

Personally, I'm rather impressed with GW's current range of washes. If I could marry them, I'd marry Gryphonne Sepia. That wash is just plain sexy, I use it more then is healthy :cry: . For lighter models like yours, you might want to consider a more controlled method of applying instead of washing the entire mini with it. Just thin it down a bit and paint it into the nooks and crannies where you want the shadow to go, and your armour plates etc. will remain clean.

[Tanhausen]

Thanks to everybody for the input.

 

@hemal

 

That was a neat reply: so you are saying that if I gloos varnish, the wash will only go into the recess but if its matte, it will go all over the place? I thought it would be more of how you apply rather than the finish effect of the varnish...

 

@Fury

 

When said ink=wash I was talking about how they translate the name to spanish ;) I agree with you that they are different concepts.

 

I like you action plan, but will probably do first step 3 and then 2, that way the final effect will be lighter and cleaner. and yes, I will apply Bleached bone by brush.

 

@Obliterator

 

I checked out Quikshade the other day at a local store... its expensive (25 Euros) and I'm not quite 100% convinced with dipping since it doesn't look as..."crisp"? Thanks for the link though! :rolleyes:

 

@articfox

 

I agree that simply building thin layers will probably end up with a better result... but the issue here is TTT (time to tabletop): thats why I use airbrush and try to go as fast as possible with the least steps possible B)

 

@narius

 

P3 Jack Bone is a brand? don't know it ;)

 

Thanks to everybody, I hope I'll have a couple hours this weekend and will able to do some tests: I'll post the results no doubt!

[Hemal]

Hi - glss tends to encurage the paint to pool more in teh recesses as it runs off raised surfaces, whilst matte will not let the fluid move around as freely (matte surfaces are by their nature slightly rough, hence teh matte finish - due to light dispersal..)

[Tanhausen]

Brother Hemal - Grand Master Varnisher,

 

You information has been added to the Book of Tooling, Painting and Converting of the Deathwing.

 

We are also pleased to inform you that the Crimson Fists have now comissioned you to our Chapter: be ready to spend some time in HUGE varnish tanks <_<

 

He protects!