A new tactic for compeitive BA lists

[Captain Viridius]

Brothers,

 

I have been a long time BA player, and the last 4 years or so I have been heavily involved on the west-coast tournament circuit in the US. In 5th Ed. I have been struggling a bit to consistently manufacture wins, and understanding the synergies between some of our units somewhat eluded me. I usually find myself either under-manned against much larger forces that spam me with attacks, or challenged to get my units in position to inflict maximum damage before I start taking critical losses myself. The new codex changes things a lot. While we all thought we were going to be able to field more models now that the Death Company tax has been abolished, that proved to NOT be the case as most of the better units in our codex are much more expensive than they were before. In my humble opinion, this leaves the Blood Angels in the position of being a small but specialized army compared to the other armies out there. In light of that position, we have to use tactics that maximizes our strengths while minimizes the exposure of our weaknesses to our opponents.

 

I myself used to used a variant of the Dante/Corbulo bubble in 4th ed, among other things. I love Baal Predators, Jump pack units, and Dreadnoughts, but most of those have certain weeknesses that make them challenging for us to play. Certain things would work great against some armies, but I would get utterly destroyed against others. Sure, that's going to happen, but it was happening before certain units (namely Dreadnoughts) would get into position to do much damage, and it was majorly blunting my tactics.

 

I was looking at the codex and I started to notice different things about certain wargear, powers, and units that seem to point to a preference on GW's part to have a mix of JP and normal units. Some units like DC were awesome overall, but hideously expensive when equipped with jump packs or a land raider. Sure, you could put them in a rhino, but they are just as likely to get that shot out from under them before they got close. So how do keep those units cheep, but allow them to get to get into range with the target you want very early on.

 

I looked at other units like the Furioso Dreadnought and noticed that if you run it across the board, it will just get blown up without doing much damage. However, if you put that model in a drop pod, you are dramatically increasing its ability to do first turn damage, and if supported correctly, damage in subsequent rounds as well. Plus, you can use a clever new piece of wargear we have called the Magna-Grapple to maximize the Dreadnought's and other unit's firing effectiveness.

 

I also noticed that some of our psychic powers are purpose built to confound opponents within 12". Shackle Soul for example works only within 12", but you can use it with a Librarian unit disembarking out of a drop pod to mess with enemy units that are standing around nearby, thereby preventing their counter-attack after you land.

 

I also noticed that the Baal Predator remarkably now has the Outflank rule. While you can argue this has various purposes, I believe this was mainly put in to provide synergy with a deep-striking army. Why put the Baal out there to get shot up in round 1 when you can put it in reservces and have it outflank and support your other units coming in turn 2?

 

Another interesting, and I believe purpose-built addition to our list is the Stormraven. This bad boy can deep strike with a unit of Marines (even those in jump packs) and a Dreadnought, AND still fire using its Power of the Machine Spirit. At the same time, it's immune to the extra dice of melta gun shots (which is perfect considering all the melta spam these days), so it is perfect for running around the board with our units and shooting what it can.

 

So based on this premise, I have been giving a LOT of thought on how to address the above issues while including some of these synergies. Very recently, I had an epiphany! Why not take a few units that pack a lethal punch and can drop down on turn 1 using the drop pod assault rule? Equip several of the drop pods with locator beacons. Drop those units down near a juicy target and near enough to support each other. You then do your best to annihilate your target and/or hide as the situation dictates. In turn 2, the rest of your forces come in off the locator beacons if they can. If your enemy has blown up the pods or occupied the area, they have likely ignored other key areas that provide plenty of space for your units to DS. You then use the speed and transport capabilities of the Stormraven to shuttle your units around the battlefield.

 

So think about this in terms of the battle. You and your oppoent roll off for initiative/sides. You win and you elect to go second; you lose and your opponent may be unsuspecting and elect to go first. If your opponent is smart and elects to go second, you can make this work potentially by deploying the Stormravens on turn 1 and unloading on his vehicles from range. Most likely your opponent goes first and just sits there doing nothing other than perhaps consolidating his position on any objectives. This strategy is going to confuse your opponent as he is unsure how to deal with the possibilities. He may try to put all of his forces into reserves, but that hurts him a lot potentially as his forces will likely come in peacemeal. Him doing that also removes one more round of firing on you, which plays into the strategy of BA using this kind of tactic.

 

Turn 1 you come in with your two most lethal units and light up your key target. Typically for me this target would be something like a Land Raider, a MC, or maybe some artillery hiding in the rear. Referring to my list below, I would select the Honor Guard and the Furioso to go down first, so they have the locator beacons. The Furioso is going to fire its Magna Grapple and try to drag any vehicles closer, in addition to its melta gun. Once the vehicle is dragged as close as possible, the Honor Guard opens fire and hopefully gets 4 good shots at double-dice range. This should obliterate your target under most circumstances. If your deep strike was off and you're out of range, you just have those units use the pod as cover and exit on the opposite of the pod.

 

On turn 2, the enemy has a few options at this point, destroy the pods while potentially ignoring the units that came out of them. If you get the pod you're disrupting the locator beacons for the next wave of troops. However, if there are multiple locator beacons, you have to make sure you get them all or the damage is done. Another option is to try to engage the area around the pods and make it unviable to land within 6". This is frankly the best option at your disposal, as it gives you the greater possibility of preventing landings in that area while still having some engagement of the units as well. The downside of doing this is that my deep strikers now may have other open spots to come in at now that units have moved. If you played your cards right, at the start of your second turn you have likely destroyed a big target on your opponents side and whethered the storm of his return fire. At this point you're going to start rolling reserves. Considering the Descent of Angels special rule, a majority of any jump pack units are going to make their reserves check and come in. Now you have the option of coming in off of the pod, or dropping elsewhere. On my list I chose an assault squad and also Dante + Sanguinary Guard + a Sanguinary Priest. The Assault Squad would likely come in off of the pod, but Dante would do a strategic landing near another choice target. Considering that beween he and his unit he has 3 Infernus Pistols, they will likely drop behind another vehicle and get 3 good shots at point blank range on rear armor. This should destroy most vehicles.

 

Turn 3 and beyond is all up to you. However, like I said, you can use the Stormravens to load up on infantry and Dreadnoughts, and shuttle them around the board to their objectives. Also, you have probably just delivered two massive blows to your opponents most juicy units. Dante and his unit are likely to take a lot of return fire the following round, but the priest and their 2+ saves should help them absorb most of that shooting. Also, they have hit an run if they are assaulted, so they can back out potentially and attack on their own terms.

 

There are certainly the obvious risks of having your pods/beacons shot up the turn they come in, having your units come in peacemeal and getting shot up, etc. However, I do believe that most of those issues are mitigated by our special rules (DoA) and our good wholesome nastiness tied with the likelihood your opponent will fear caused with having such forces just materialize on his side of the table and evaporate one of his key units.

 

 

Anyway, this is my strategy for maximizing the effectiveness of the Blood Angels, while minimizing their losses. I wanted to post this so I could potentially help other Blood Angels players who were struggling with the changes as I was, or who are looking for new strategies to aid their game. I would welcome input from all of you on how you think this would fair, or other things I should consider. Thank you in advance my fellow Blood Angel brothers!

 

My sample Blood Angel list:

 

HQ: Commander Dante (1#)

1 Commander Dante (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Death Mask of Sanguinius; Iron Halo; Jump Pack; Axe Mortalis; Infernus Pistol; And They Shall Know No Fear; Descent of Angels; Hit & Run; Independent Character; Surgical Strike; Tactical Precision)

 

Troops: Sanguinary Guard (5#)

1 Sanguinary Guard (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Chapter Banner; Sanguinary Guard; Sanguinary Guard; Descent of Angels; Fearless; The Red Thirst)

3 Sanguinary Guard (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Jump Pack; Angelus Boltgun; Glaive Encarmine)

2 Sanguinary Guard (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Jump Pack; Infernus Pistol; Power Fist)

 

Elite: Sanguinary Priest (1#)

1 Sanguinary Priest (Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour)

1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Blood Chalice; Power Armour; Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Lightning Claw; And They Shall Know No Fear; Descent of Angels; Feel No Pain; Furious Charge; Independent Character)

 

: Honour Guard (6#)

1 Honour Guard (Unit Type: Infantry; Honour Guard; And They Shall Know No Fear; The Red Thirst; Drop Pod)

1 Sanguinary Novitiate (Blood Chalice; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Chainsword; Feel No Pain; Furious Charge)

4 Honour Guard (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Meltagun x1)

1 Drop Pod (Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 10 models; Locator Beacon; Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#)

9 Tactical Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Multi-Melta; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; The Red Thirst; Drop Pod)

1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; The Red Thirst)

1 Drop Pod (Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 10 models; Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)

 

Troops: Assault Squad (10#)

7 Assault Squad (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x7; Chainsword x7; Flamer; Flamer; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)

1 Assault Marine with Flamer (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Chainsword; Flamer; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)

1 Assault Marine with Flamer (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Chainsword; Flamer; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)

1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Jump Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst)

 

Elite: Furioso Dreadnought (2#)

1 Furioso Dreadnought (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Smoke Launchers; Blood Talon with Meltagun; Blood Talon with Storm Bolter; Magna-grapple; Blood Talons; The Red Thirst; Drop Pod)

1 Drop Pod (Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 10 models; Locator Beacon; Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)

 

Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#)

1 Stormraven Gunship (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Transport Capacity: 1 Dreadnought; Access Points: 4; Ceramite Plating; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; 4x Bloodstrike Missiles; Twin Linked MultiMelta; Twin Linked Lascannon; Assault Vehicle; Deep Strike; Power of the Machine Spirit; Skies of Blood)

 

Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#)

1 Stormraven Gunship (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Transport Capacity: 1 Dreadnought; Access Points: 4; Ceramite Plating; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; 4x Bloodstrike Missiles; Twin Linked MultiMelta; Twin-Linked Plasma Cannon; Assault Vehicle; Deep Strike; Power of the Machine Spirit; Skies of Blood)

 

 

Only in death does duty end....!

[Zeller]

Interesting read. The strategy you describe sounds like it would have quite a shock factor. I'd very much like to try a pod strategy like this out as opposed to my mechanized list. I am incredibly afraid of trying a battleplan like this though.

 

A couple of things.

 

The grapple idea - While I see this could be devestating on vehicles with lower armor rating, most notably light transports, given that most heavy armor has a highest armor value of 13 or 14 the odds or dragging the vehicle towards the dreadnought seems very low. Though you mentioned that if the target were out of range you would simply deploy the marines on the other side of the pod I'm wondering, given that there is only one chance to pull the vehicle that phase, if you should instead try to deepstrike the marines as close to the vehicle as possible in the event the dreadnought fails. Unfortunately this could lessen the synergy of the two first turn strike units.

 

Lists - When you write down a unit for a list it makes it quicker to read the squad if it is organised something like this:

Sanguinary Guard - chapter banner, 2x powerfist, 3x glaive encarmine

If you prefer your method then more power to you. :D It does have a nice complete look about it anyway.

 

What role does your tactical squad fulfill? Is it there to deepstrike on objectives or come down close to the action?

 

Storm Raven gunships cannot take smoke launchers. Have you considered putting locater beacons on each bird as a backup plan or to use the birds in flyby deepstrikes?

[glider0880]

Dear god what are we geeks becoming...

'Pulling' vehicles dear me!!!!! (I tend to prefer something with a little more curvature!

 

A good idea, i may try it out sometime, if i do , ill post back.

 

P.S im with Zeller on the setting out point.

[Captain Viridius]

Zeller,

 

The tactical squad is there for capturing and holding objectives. I like to have 4-5 scoring units in tournament lists. Considering combat squads, I have 3-5 total.

 

As far as the list format, that came from Army Builder. It was the most expedient way to get it out there, so I just used it the way it was outputted. I will take a look at that the next time I post though. Thanks for the suggestion.

[the jeske]

the BAs unless you want to do an alfa strike army are not a small model counts elite army. trying to use stuff like dante , DC or HG is the best way to lose against good IG and SW lists. spaming ras in mecha builds if you want to do hth or counter lists, razor spam with 50/50 ras/tacs with pred support for a shoty list.

 

stuff like SG is unplayable . you pay tons of points for a jump pack unit that if ever seen by a template , a IC you can lose them fast. even if they dont die you end up with 2-3 guys that cant even charge a tactical. same goes for charging a hth unit or counter charging . even if you win with a low model count it means you end up with 1-2 guys and all they can do is hide [to not give KP or try to contest , but again without transports that is very hard].

[Captain Viridius]

Zeller,

 

The tactical squad is there for capturing and holding objectives. I like to have 4-5 scoring units in tournament lists. Considering combat squads, I have 3-5 total.

 

As far as the list format, that came from Army Builder. It was the most expedient way to get it out there, so I just used it the way it was outputted. I will take a look at that the next time I post though. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I see your point Jeske, but I respectfully somewhat disagree. I have seen RAS squads get just as easily destroyed by templates and do nothing. They can DS and shoot, or they can run and get out of nice template pattern, but either way if they get hit with a jucy template they are going to take nasty casualties.

 

RAS in Razorbacks are good, but they are also very vulnerable. That vehicle gets hit by heavy weapons and it's gone and they are walking. Plus a 5 man RAS squad on foot likely won't have much opportunity to contribute, and will likely be wiped the first CC they get into.

 

As for the SG and their effectiveness, the priest will give them a lot of benefit in many regards. If you shoot them with AP3 weapons or above, they can deflect that off pretty easily. Yes, you have to worry about AP1/2 weapons, but who doesn't. The trick is to place them where your opponent won't have great return fire at them. If I am trading off 1-2 SG though for blowing up a Land raider or something similar, that's a good trade off I think. Also, if this unit hits an MEQ unit on the charge, that unit is likely dieing a gruesome death. Likewise for an MC unit. I've done the math, and most of those units suffer more unsaveable wounds on average than they have. Most of these come on init 5, so the opponent will likely not even get to attack back.

[dlfleetw]

I like the idea of a two tiered assault based around drop pods followed by deep-strikes.

 

While Sanguinary Guard offered offensive punch I'd be more inclined to carry 10 man Assault Marines w/ two meltas allowing combat squads, Dreanoughts, and Land speeders.

[Captain Viridius]

I like the idea of a two tiered assault based around drop pods followed by deep-strikes.

 

While Sanguinary Guard offered offensive punch I'd be more inclined to carry 10 man Assault Marines w/ two meltas allowing combat squads, Dreanoughts, and Land speeders.

 

I see two sides to the coin on that. In one case, the unit is more resilient due to numbers. On the other hand, they are significantly less lethal than the SG and have to roll for morale. My fear is that RAS would not do enough damage to their opponent, fail morale, and start running off the board with Dante. I would be willing to give it a try though and see how I like it.

[wookielips]

this list would get quickly wrecked in my local group. tons of IG with mystics.

 

ive tried it in other games, too pricey and static once it lands

[Gridlocked]

This thread.

 

Is awesome.

[Captain Viridius]

this list would get quickly wrecked in my local group. tons of IG with mystics.

 

ive tried it in other games, too pricey and static once it lands

 

Hmm, I am more concerned with the IG than I am the mystics. For one, I know the tactic, but it's generally considered beardy and outdated so you don't see it much at tournaments. Second, the range of the mystics effect is somewhat limited and variable. Unless the player deploys everything so closely together, he will likely have something exposed that I can take advantage of. Also, using the mystic and his abilities assumes you have a unit that can fire at me. If I drop behind a tank, you're not shooting a blast weapon at me. Unless you guard all your tanks rears with a squad of IG, you're not likely to have a unit I am going to be too worried about shooting at me except maybe some veterans.

 

Also, once I know my opponent has them, I can just have my Stormravens deploy at the start of the game. I can then divert my Plasmacannon and Bloodstorm missles to make sure that mystic squad lives a very short life. While there are certainly some concerns that would need to be addressed, I don't think the mystics would cause me a major problem if I handled it right.

 

As far as the list being too static, that's what the Stormravens are for. The troops on foot get inside and race around the table as necessary.

 

Good food for thought overall though. Thanks, Wookielips.

[Firedrake28]

As far as the list format, that came from Army Builder. It was the most expedient way to get it out there, so I just used it the way it was outputted. I will take a look at that the next time I post though. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I don't have much else to add to this thread, but I can help you out here. When you're setting the Rules up for your list, choose "Competition Output" and you can post very clear and concise lists.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Inquisitor/Mystics as an ally for IG will be going away soon.

 

Good thread. :lol:

 

0b :lol:

[dlfleetw]

I agree that Dante + Sanguinary Guard + Priest is a very nasty squad. I would be inclined to use them, but for the rest Assault squads dropping all over the place near beacons sounds interesting.

 

I've got a friend that plays a Mech Guard Army I should be playing in the next month or so (lives a few hours away) so I may try to proxy test the idea and see how it fairs.

 

4 or so drop pods

 

1 storm raven

 

2 Baals

 

1-2 Dreads (in drop pods, one a librarian)

 

1-3 units of Assault Marines

 

Sanguinary Guard for Dante

 

 

 

I like the Baals for the Flanking Reserve, its just hard to defend against with the speed of the Baals.

[Mattsama]

Maybe I'm a little too tired but I think I'm missing something.

 

A lot of people are talking about units in Stormravens deepstriking and blah, blah, blah... But units can't embrak on the SR until it is on the field because it's not a dedicated transport. If I'm wrong I blame the sleepy...

[Whitefireinferno]

To Matt you can board the Stormraven before the game starts because it is not a Dedicated transport its not bought for somebody else so no worries.

[Khorneeq]

I've been trying a heavily deep striking army. Now I know it needs a drop pods to work properly.

I'm trying to use Vanguard Veterans, as they can lock enemy units in combat the turn they land (but as for now they get filthy rolls to get from reserves and for scatter).

Librarian with Shield Of Sanguinus can increase survivability of landing troops, so I'm putting him in the list too.

[whitewolfmxc]

argh........the tactic was well used when the SW codex came out , and they had a better suited book for that , yes the SW book is more suited to drop podding list , thats why our battle force comes with a pod

 

For me BA is about speed on the table to distract your enemy and while also deep striking units take surprise attacks , and since theres a lot coming in close the enemy will have to force to pick thier targets wisely

 

while podding seems like to have its use , to me it seems it takes away the game feel of the BA

 

and like what you mentioned , BA is already a specialist elite list with average lower model count than other marines , and while you have to put half your army on turn one , if anything goes wrong , that half of your army can be in seriously trouble and cost you the game

[Mattsama]

Thanks WHI!! I was missing half the rule last night!!

 

I was thinking of trying a "Force Recon" style army. A couple 10x scout squad with MLs and sniper rifles combat squaded. Half infiltrating and the other hlf flanking. Same with a Baal or two, and run everything else meched out...

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

if you are going to do a pod list, you should look at how great certain squads do in pods, like sternguard. they get their full complement of weapons without 10 guys, so they are a go for taking the SHP with them in the pod, and they are going to put out considerable fire power on the turn they land and odds are if you take a few combi meltas or melta guns, they will be able to hurt whatever they land near on the turn they land, and if they get charged by anything other than dedicated assault troops, they have a good chance of surviving if not winning.

[Roland Durendal]

I have to agree with whitewolfmxc on this one. BA's strength is in their mobility. Pods, by their very nature, reduce that mobility. Sure you can get in close turn 1, but then you're stuck with a bunch of footslogging BA's.

 

Sure you pod in, land, and kill something that turn. But now you have 2 units (by and large, unless you podded more guys in or if you have something else on the board) facing the ENTIRE enemy armies shooting and assault. Assuming this type of tactic/army went against a standard BA mech/RB list, I can pretty predict that the pods would be killed by the RBs, and the dudes in the pods would be charged by a few of those 5 man assault squads (most of which would have an attached priest for FC and FNP). And the one thing about BA's is, to be truly effective, they need the charge. Their ability to win combats hinges upon whether they charge or are charged. Podding in takes away that bonus as it leaves them in the open the moment they land and at risk of being charged.

 

Honestly, the best loadouts for BA I've seen so far (and have plkayed against both at tournies and at my FLGS) are:

- The All Jumper BA Army

- The Jumper-Biker BA Army (aka The "Blood Rodeo" list of Kirby from 3++ Is the New Black fame)

- The Mech BA Army (utilizing either several 5 man RAS + Priest squads in RBs, or 3 full 9 man squads + priest in rhinos)

[Marshal Rohr]

The Blood Angels version of Leafblower is the most effective. The one that is essentially a Mech Guard vet list.

[Captain Viridius]

Responses to a couple of posts...

 

Several of the Space Wolf players mentioned that podding in would leave our units foot slogging afterwards. The list I proposed comes with two Stormravens. The idea is that the pod units come in for an Alpha Strike, and then board the gunships to get around. That is hardly foot slogging to me.

 

I don't deny that the Mech and all jumpers list is a bit more stereotypical of BA from a fluff perspective. However, I don't think that an all JP list is very viable on its own. JP troops are very expensive and tend to cut down in the open without some cover and support.

 

Mech lists are fine, but I have seen a lot of use of the 5 man RAS squad in an RB. While very efficient on points, I think they detract from our ability to assault. That 5 man unit is very vulnerable and a player needs to use them judiciously or risk losing that scoring unit.

 

The original intention of my post was purely to point out one alternative to supplement our lists. I believe BA have certain synergies with this style that enhance our ability to pull it off. While I don't think this is the only way to go, or should do away with mech or JP armies, it may help those armies reach their potential.

[Lokied]

the BAs unless you want to do an alfa strike army are not a small model counts elite army. trying to use stuff like dante , DC or HG is the best way to lose against good IG and SW lists. spaming ras in mecha builds if you want to do hth or counter lists, razor spam with 50/50 ras/tacs with pred support for a shoty list.

 

stuff like SG is unplayable . you pay tons of points for a jump pack unit that if ever seen by a template , a IC you can lose them fast. even if they dont die you end up with 2-3 guys that cant even charge a tactical. same goes for charging a hth unit or counter charging . even if you win with a low model count it means you end up with 1-2 guys and all they can do is hide [to not give KP or try to contest , but again without transports that is very hard].

 

"You are correct sir!" In fact no Space Marine army (with a recent-ish codex) is a small model counts elite. They are a large model count elite army. I guess its GW idea, big shiny space marine armys = more space marine minis sell... As proof, compare 3rd vs. 5th (and even 4th to some extent)

 

Now you buy a basic 5thed 'naked' SM 5-man tac squad and you get the same 5 SMs as in 3rd. But you also get frag and krak grenades, a bolt pistol extra for free, and an obligatory veteren SM all for 15pts cheaper than in 3rd for the same upgrades (not counting pistols as they didn't exist). Assault squads are 55pts cheaper naked. Preds, transports, Devs, veteren assault... hell even 5th ed termies are cheaper naked. All with better 'naked' gear and cheaper upgrade costs.

 

Bet ya if you converted your current list to an old 3rd list (counting as and ignoring force org because of all the new stuff) you lose at least 2-5 squads... Many of the other Codecies (specially the older ones) still have their army costs based on 3rd edition formulae, hows that for codex creep lol. :D

[Godhead]

I think dropping a dread in a pod with a MM/HF supported by Baals that scouted up would work just fine with a jump force. I puts an opponent under fire in their own deployment zone right from the start.