Gabriel Seth

[shinigami]

Brothers (and sisters? :) ) I write in search of help and advice.

 

The new codex hasn't been particulary kind with the flesh tearers chapter. The death company surely isn't a "must have", it is expensive and impossible to control. Vehicles are a key resource, but dang, flesh tearers don't even employ them!

And Seth... well Seth really look meh :mellow, both in rules and appearence (yes, I'm speaking of his Mr potato head :o ): So meh that i still couldn't be brave enough to test him on the battlefield.

 

To keep it simple, building a decent-competitive AND fluffy flesh tearers list is not that easy.

 

But Seth is still Seth. My poor heart can't bear not to field the proud master of the best chapter-ever. Before so doing, I wanted to hear the experience of players who have already play-tested him enough (or ever!).

Is there a way to make Seth work on the battlefield? Which units/tactics does he suit best? How do you play him, and what are the results? In a word (in a few words): IS THERE A POINT in fielding him on the battlefield?

 

Thanks to everybody (and sorry for my poor english)

[SamaNagol]

Honour Guard with a Thunder Hammer, a Lightning Claw, 2 Meltaguns and a Company Banner. In a Razorback with TL Assault Cannon.

[Andrew_Beck]

put him on terminator base and mount him in lrc/lrr with 10man RAS + Priest (and maybe + chaplain).

ride around and do stuff.

[SamaNagol]

Putting a model on a Terminator base is illegal.

[Brother Nathan]

dont put seth on a termy base! that would be cheating and any opponent would be right to refuse you allow you to use it. would put a bad name to all ba armys doing such a thing... Anyway flesh tearers should be fine to use normal rhino chassies. but they would likely all be going straight forward. so what ever squads put hem in rhinos and move almost as if they did rage. (like flesh tearerss would do anything else) i would personally only limit them o heavys and elies especially termys but that dosent mean you cant have a squad. other than that id say you can do much as you want.

to use seth aye hounour guard would probably be best so he gets furious charge and fnp. then charge them into whatever scares you. reber he instant kills toughness 4 so he hurts warriors and nobs and most characters. sure they get armour saves when he dosent rend but with him instant killing and striking before most things hell add alot to combat res by instant jibbing, nevermind what the rest of the squad do and his head butting etc...

[Midnightmare]

I love Seth's rules and will be doing a conversion for my BA to count as my Captain. Big chainsword = badassness :D

 

I think either an nasty HG with razorback fit the bill best for fluffiness, or an 8 man RAS with priest in a rhino/landraider.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

I normally do put most of my characters on 40mm bases (terminator bases) but in the case of Seth I wouldn't. With most characters its rarely an issue on the table top, as its more for aesthetics and stability, but with Seth who as a special rule involving all models in Base contact I wouldn't... hence why I don't have a model to represent Seth. However if I were to run Seth in a game it would most likely be with a large nasty squad of some sort, Death Company perhaps or a Vanguard Veteran squad without JPs, put them in either a crusader or a redeemer and have Seth detach from the unit when they disembark so he can charge a different unit to hopefully get surrounded so as to make maximum use of the whirlwind of gore.

 

-Samirus

[Andrew_Beck]

look, chaos DP is suplied with terminator base and I havent seen any1 using it for their DP and im in hobby for some time.

also never had problems with my characters (playing only SM armies) on any base.

[Spacefrisian]

By all means put him on 40mm base, max you can hit vs me is 6 not more with his ballet performance.

[Brother Nathan]

i do know i do forinstace have the 3rd ed tyrant that came on a termi base but upped it to dreadnaught as its fairer for y opponent. but in the case of seth he does have a special rule that is directly affected by base size and it is in the main rule book. so for him as far as im concerned it should be no. Of course you could make him emoveable from bases and give him a fancy display one and a normal gaming one. Its what im doing with my mephy.

[Nuntius]

Why is everyone getting offended by the base thing. The only rule in the BRB concerning bases is that you can't put a model on a smaller base. It says nothing about a larger one. Most people wouldn't even consider putting, say Mephiston on a larger base because more models could attack him, but because Seth has a special rule that benefits him, suddenly it is wrong to put him on a larger base? I say, good on ya, bro! Put him on a Dreadnaught base and jam him down your opponent's throat! Let him worry about how to not surround Seth.

[daboarder]

larger bases is fine, all my characters are on 40mm bases and when I finish my seth conversion he will be too.

[Whitefireinferno]

Yes because that Falls into the relm of Moddelling for advantage which is a No No and to the OP if you dont like Seth's Rules then you are not a Flesh Tearer at heart. But he has got a great hunter of tanks due to HAHAHAAA I auto hit it fool combined with his Headbutt on 1s pure epic brutality and TBH Seth IS the coolest thing GW has done since 5th started.

[Legatus]

Why is everyone getting offended by the base thing. The only rule in the BRB concerning bases is that you can't put a model on a smaller base. It says nothing about a larger one.

You are thinking of the 4th Edition rules. That rule changed in 5th Edition.

 

"Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different-sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."

BRB, page 3.

[Priest33]

umm... 160 points for possiably the most bad ass character in our codex? Str 8 rending chainsword that auto hits vehicals and dreads no matter how far they have moved (in the case of vehicals) 5 attacks on the charge, coupled with a chapter banner to make 6, and your saying hes lackluster? Lolwut?! My only problem with him is he doesnt have a Jump Pack option!

[Brother Theophantus]

I have to say at first I wasn't to enamoured with Seth but after giving him a try i think he's definetly entertaining and worth giving a go. Maybe not the best for tournament lists as his performance is quite variable as some games you won't get a single six for rending and your opponent will make all his saves and others you'll end up with a killing machine on par with Mephy. So by all means use him for fun, friendly games but maybe something a tad more reliable for ard boys or similar.

[Firedrake28]

I hate to be "that person", but even as a loyal Flesh Tearers player, I think Seth is pretty much crap. It's not that he can't be good, it's just that the number of things that he's actually any good at killing are very limited. Seth pretty much fails at fighting basic infantry regardless of their number or armor save because nine times out of ten he'll be inside a unit and he doesn't have enough Attacks to make much difference in a close combat. He can beat on Monstrous Creatures but often ends up getting stomped on and killed in return (don't charge a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant with this guy - seriously). Whirlwind of Gore is cool, but I think I've used it twice, only once to any notable effect. Ferocious Instincts is nice if you can remember to use it (I forget this one a lot <_< ). He's also seriously allergic to power fists.

 

All this makes me think that he's not worth the HQ slot. It's not that his points cost is prohibitive as he's actually fairly cheap, it's just that I'd much rather have a Librarian or Reclusiarch in his place since one can only take a maximum of 2 HQs.

[Priest33]

Seth pretty much fails at fighting basic infantry regardless of their number or armor save because nine times out of ten he'll be inside a unit and he doesn't have enough Attacks to make much difference in a close combat.

 

This I dont understand.. how is 5 attacks not enough to make a difference? Or 6 if you have him with an honor guard. Yeah hes goign to be with a unit which means you can keep him away from PF's and the like.. but even still he has a 4+ inv. He causes ID to most hq's... Guess its just different playstyles or something but in the games that ive taken him hes been a beast and a half, even without rending.

[Firedrake28]

Seth pretty much fails at fighting basic infantry regardless of their number or armor save because nine times out of ten he'll be inside a unit and he doesn't have enough Attacks to make much difference in a close combat.

 

This I dont understand.. how is 5 attacks not enough to make a difference? Or 6 if you have him with an honor guard. Yeah hes goign to be with a unit which means you can keep him away from PF's and the like.. but even still he has a 4+ inv. He causes ID to most hq's... Guess its just different playstyles or something but in the games that ive taken him hes been a beast and a half, even without rending.

 

 

 

Assaulting

 

Seth\'s Attacks vs MEQs

 

-----------------------------

 

Attackers

 

Seth\'s Attacks

Attacks: 5

Hit Chance: 66.67%

Hits: 3.333

Wound Chance: 66.67%

Rend Wound Chance: 16.67%

Wounds: 2.222

Rend Wounds: 0.556

Saved Wounds: 1.481

Unsaved Wounds: 0.741

Unsaved Rending Wounds: 0.556

Models Killed: 1.296

Options: Rending, Instakill, Hit On 3, Wound On 2

 

-----------------------------

 

Defenders

 

MEQs

Hits: 3.333

Wounds: 2.222

Rending Wounds: 0.556

Saves: 1.481

Wounds Lost: 0.741

R. Wounds Lost: 0.556

Models Lost: 1.296 / 10 (13%)

Kills in I order:

I:5 1.296

 

 

-----------------------------

Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)

 

1.296 kills against MEQs really isn't that great for his cost. I'd much rather run an HQ that can do more to contribute to a battle than dish out kills, like a Reclusiarch's ability to help his entire unit in combat, or the Librarian's psychic powers and hood.

[Priest33]

Yeah well.. I dont play mathhammer and from my experence hes done quite a bit more then what that shows. Each to their own tho! :D

[Firedrake28]

Yeah well.. I dont play mathhammer and from my experence hes done quite a bit more then what that shows. Each to their own tho! :D

 

I don't "play mathhammer" either. I just use it as a tool to support my claims and to help my analyze situations. :P

[Priest33]

compleatly agree that it all depends on the unit hes with (duh!) but if you can get the charge with him an theres a priest around hes going at int6, which in my area is a godsend as theres a lot of genestealer "cults" players here....

[Malus the Destroyer]

I've had nothing but amazing results with Seth, even if he forgets to turn his chainsword on (1 rending hit the entire time I've played him). Wanna grease someone up for Seth? HG w/banner, and a Librarian with Unleashed Rage. I will eat my way outta most anything with this. Not to mention the good, warm feeling of the "Masters of the Chapter" formation in Apoc, that uses Seth and our 4 remaining Captains with honor guard, and Libby in tow. The only good I see of Chaplains is with Death Company.

I've 1 shot a baneblade with Seth, ate Khârn and 20 Zerkers in tow. My only gripe is lack of Jump pack option, which is fixxed by fast Rhino's.

[TheyKilledOffTycho?]

I must say I really enjoy playing Seth. He's cheap enough points wise for you to take both him and a Libby in 1500 pt games. The last game I played his command sqd's razorback was wrecked in the second turn (he was running with Blood Chap, 1pf, twin linked lightning claws). They barely made it out of my deployment zone but they tore through a combat sqd of marines, 5 termies, a landspeeder and one sternguard before the last man went down (the sternguard was taken down in a suicide charge by the last model!).

 

The model isn't great in terms of his head, as he looks just like any other helmetless SM, though he does have a very dynamic pose I kitbashed mine with parts from the space wolves, BT, command sqd boxes and running legs from the RAS box. It's easy to convert his chainsword thing by removing the top of any two handed weapon and sticking two chainswords together and putting them on top. Then pose it any way you like.

[SamaNagol]

I'm going to be completely redoing mine based on the very small IA illustration, with hair. That's a project for the future though.