Deathwing Librarians and Chaplains

[Sawtooth]

Hi Dark Angels. I've been reading all the Deathwing tactics articles I can in anticipation of playing with the new army I'm assembling (Deathwing rules, representing a First Company spearhead of my Chapter). I notice one of the big recomendations is to avoid frills where possible and get as many bodies in an army list as you can. It's generally sound advice for any list but especially for the numerically inferior Deathwing.

 

My question is, when do you advocate taking a terminator Librarian or Chaplain in a pure-Deathwing list (nothing but termies, Dreads, and Land Raiders, etc)? I ask because I notice very few of them in army lists, and because I happen to really like those two models a great deal. Is there a particular point level or magic number of terminator models you field before you feel the expense can be justified? Do you think they offer more to this type of army against a particular opponent or with a particular tactic in mind (Chaplain+Assault Termies+Crusader)?

 

And I really hope there isn't a thread like this already that I missed while searching. Everyone knows the DA forum mods are more terrifying and prone to torture when they lock threads.

[Mystic Lemur]

I have seen both Chaplain and Librarian used to good effect assaulting out of a LRC, so I think you're on the right track as far as how to use them. At what point can you "justify the expense"? No clue, but I would probably say don't take a second HQ in anything less than 2k points. Don't have enough experience to get any more specific, sorry.

[TyrionTheImp]

Interrogator-Chaplains? Sure. Librarians? No. Dark Angel Librarians are AWFUL in ever sense of the word, if you need a psychic hood, get a Grey Knight allies thing going on. Interrogator-Chaplains are good, but I don't know if people use them as their 2nd HQ's often, it depends though. If you want fluffy, sure you can use I-Chappies or Librarians, but competitive, Belial and Sammy for Deathraven, or Belial and a GKGM for the hood is the most common HQ set up.

[Arvendragon]

Librarians CAN be that 2nd Apothecary with their Force Barrier, and Hellfire negates Marines' saves 1/2 the time.

 

Chaplains are better though.

[Hellios]

Personally I grab a copy of codex daemonhunters and use a Grey Knight Hero (Grand Master if I have the points) as my librarian... using count as... because I really want a Ld10 hood!!!!!! not to mention the grey knight hood is better... When I play greenwing I only ever Take Ezkiel (sp?) because leadership 9 means most psykers will beat you when you use your hood... oh and you can give a grey knight hero some cool gubbins that might help but isn't overly expensive... I normally give mine the scourging because it is fairly cheap and I figure a librarian should have at least one power... (he already has a force weapon)

[Tanhausen]

Noob questions:

 

- Where does it say you can take GK as allies?

 

- Do you use the new PDFs?

[DAG42]

At 2k pts. my favorite unit consists of:

 

HQ- Belial, LC

HQ- Int. Chaplain

5- Termies, LC's

standard bearer upgrade........That's 36 attacks on the first assault. Plus hit and wound re-rolls.

 

Landraider crusader

 

Only army I won't run this against is Nids. Initiative is to high. But on the assault of any other no units can stand up to all the re-rolls and power weapons.

 

 

On the GKGM, I thought the new PDF took away the allies rule?

[Hellios]

Noob questions:

 

- Where does it say you can take GK as allies?

 

- Do you use the new PDFs?

 

 

 

On the GKGM, I thought the new PDF took away the allies rule?

 

 

Well apparently the old paper codices are valid and although I've only looked at the english one so I don't know the truth of it but the french and spanish versions and so one still have the allies and so on... Apparently GW events will allow allies to be used but it is up to tournaments to decide which version they will use... We will have to wait and see if the GW is talking smack or if they will actually allow allies in their events :rolleyes: although when the new codex comes out it will no longer be valid I guess...

 

I have the books so I don't need the PDFs but it has a little section for rules regarding inducting IG/SM forces into a DH/WH force and also allying WH/DH to another force don't get them confused... Dark Angels cannot be added to a daemonhunters army(You could get away using the Dark Angels as standard codex marines) but Daemonhunters can be added to a Dark Angels army

 

And here is a list I posted a while ago... you will note we allow FW... and while I have Lucius pattern drop pods... they are not considered over powered when we look at my army as a whole :mellow: + are pods cost as much as the lucius pods!

 

HQ

 

Belial = 130

 

Librarian (GKGM) with Scourging, Psychic hood, Grimoire of true names, Holy Relic & Sacred Incense = 225pts

 

Troops

 

DW Squad with Apothecary, Deathwing Standard, chainfist & Assault Cannon = 305pts

 

DW squad with a chainfist & Assault cannon = 250pts

 

DW squad with a chainfist & Assault cannon = 250pts

 

DW squad with a chainfist & Assault cannon = 250pts

 

Elites

 

Mortis Dreadnought with extra-armour and TL-LC in a Lucius pattern drop-pod = 230pts

 

Venerable Dreadnought (Multi-melta) with extra-armour in a Lucius pattern drop-pod = 210pts

 

Heavy Support

 

2 X Deathstorm Drop-pod = 150pts

 

Total = 2,000pts (I think I've got this right, I didn't have all the relevant books.)

 

If for whatever reason I wasn't allowed a GKH or didn't have the points I would take a Chappy over a DA Lib :)

[Tanhausen]

At 2k pts. my favorite unit consists of:

 

HQ- Belial, LC

HQ- Int. Chaplain

5- Termies, LC's

standard bearer upgrade........That's 36 attacks on the first assault. Plus hit and wound re-rolls.

 

Landraider crusader

 

Only army I won't run this against is Nids. Initiative is to high. But on the assault of any other no units can stand up to all the re-rolls and power weapons.

 

Certainly, that unit is probably the hardest hitting unit we can deploy...but I don't really know if its worth it! Sounds overkill.

 

- 20 MEQ kills when assaulting

- If you go for something like WS5 T5, its like 15 kills

 

Cost of the unit would be something like 650+chaplain in TDA armour (120?)... so its an 800 points unit.

 

Question is... what do you throw that at? Because you are never going to get your points back!

[DAG42]

We play on a 6x16 ft table so our games 4-5 each side get intense. Always objective based, so my army can be designed as a certain portion with specific jobs in mind. Ork mob slaughter is always fun and I have a second five man LC armed loaded in a Prometheous. Now throw in a Vindi, and odd stuff to meet army allocations. Most of the time that unit gets it's points worth. ( well when dice gods co-operate...lol.)

[DAG42]

Also 1 of the Ork players likes to run his army where he gets lots of Nobs and cyborks, mega nobs whatever the multiple wound greenskins so I need lots of power weapons. He's not a horde player.

 

This is half the table. Pic is about a yr ago. Sorry about the quality I'm a crappy pic taker. That's the left half.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u246/DAG42/dagtank017.jpg

 

Here is the right side.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u246/DAG42/dagtank016.jpg

[Okidus]

Never.

If you want a hood use a Grey knight bro cap.

[Antagonis]

I am actually a pretty staunch supported of the DA Terminator Librarian.

 

As a deathwing player, I find it difficult to initiate the charge, and a fair bit of my damage is done in shooting, where a chaplain would just be extra wounds. In my experience, the termy librarian is a better option in terms of shooting (the template of doom or not) and a fantastic measure of defense with the force barrier. Every time force barrier goes off, you have just saved yourself a terminator. The force weapon is also grand for the "Oh, Snap!" factor for players using monstrous creatures and multi wound models, as it will make them sweat, filling every dice roll in assault from your libby with terrible, terrible possibilities.

 

I usually field my Termy libby with a combi plas where I can doe just a little more damage in that first shooting phase with his BS of 5.

[BoonKin]

It depends on the list and playstyle.

 

I would go for the TDA Librarian when I am footslogging, since the unlimited range of the psyshic hood is valuable against pesky eldar powers. And as mentioned above, the force barrier is a pretty useful but random power as well.

 

Once I am meched, I will use the chaplain together with Belial and friends, and we all know what happens if they are stuck in a crusader together :blink:

[Avenger Of The Lion]

Nice I am glad this came up as I am guessing then it is all right to use an Interrogator-Chaplain in TDA as part of the Deathwing. I guess that he stays in his traditonal black armour not the Bone of the DW

[Tomevans]

The Interrogator Chaplain's special rule Litanies of Hate makes them a great choice to plonk in a LRC and lead an assault squad charging into combat. Re rolling missed power fist and lightning claw attacks for a turn of combat is pretty decent and will tear apart the vast majority of squads you choose to pick on. Obviously be careful with Bloodletter's or a large Genestealer brood but apart from that it's all fair game. Seeing a squad of Tau Fire Warriors get chewed through is always an appealing site.

 

As for our librarians, as quite a few people have said, they are generally poor. However, getting a force weapon on the table can be quite useful and can be quite effective in taking down a many wounded critter in double quick time, although the IT is a far fluffier and more competition worthy choice. Leave Librarians for Apocalypse games and stick with the Belial, IT combo for other occasions. Being able to take Sacred Standards also opens many fluffy opportunities and leaves some good opportunties for painting difficult freehand.