Vangaurd Lightning Claws

[LordofDeath11]

I think I stated pretty clearly that the marine with a pair of lightning claws was accompanied by a marine with bolt pistol + ccw. I could have given you the calculations of just the pair of lightning claws but that wouldn't have been a fair comparison as 1 marine with 2 lightning claws costs less then 2 marines with each a power weapon. By adding the marine without special weapons to the one with the pair of lightning claws their cost will be the same as that of the two marines with a power weapon each.

 

 

Got it. Mind you it was about 2am when I was reading this last night. Courier just woke me up at 7.30am with my new miniature carry case. Will be having my first game/s of 40k very soon.

[Niiai]

Not to be an ass about fluff, but:

 

Would it not be better to have 2 power weaponds on two diferent moddel then two lightning claws on two models or even on one model, given that they also have pistols?

 

With a good weapon skills you will hitr more with more attacks than with more re-rols and you get it cheaper.

[SamaNagol]

You've just seen the numbers. That's not the case.

[Zealadin]

You've just seen the numbers. That's not the case.

 

Actually, No, the 'numbers' state it depends on alot of variables.

There was no black and white answer, except two LC's on a single model isn't worth it if they could be on seperate models (or the points spent on seperate models with a PW each). I think this is also because our codex doesn't have a reduced cost for a second LC. (Seem to remember it being much cheaper to buy a second to make a pair in my DH codex)

PW = better against T3, LC better against T5+, reasonably similar versus T4.

 

I think this sums it up pretty much unless I misinterpreted the numbers somewhere.

[SamaNagol]

Against MEQ with T4 with base St4 LCs are better. PW are better if you are using FC against T4.

 

As with any weapon, they are situational.

[Zealadin]

Against MEQ with T4 with base St4 LCs are better. PW are better if you are using FC against T4.

 

As with any weapon, they are situational.

 

1/4 a wound vs 1/6 a wound isn't much to go on, and saying they are similar is FAR more accurate than saying 'better' without referring to the figures. Better could mean anything.

[SamaNagol]

Better means results in more wounds caused in combat. Which is the sole use of a special CCW

[JamesI]

Overall the difference between the mathematical expected wound from a single lightning claw and a power weapon and bolt pistol combo are little enough that its really the players choice. And since the single claw is the same price as the power weapon, it really does just come down to personal preference.

 

Most of the time I use power weapons as the bits are easier to come by.

 

I was struggling a little with T5 opponents (Nurgle and Bikes basically) and swapped out my sanguinary priests power weapon for a lightning claw (and no longer needing the bolt pistol upgraded his gun to a stormbolter).

[SamaNagol]

On ICs they do indeed become better because you can then equip them with other equipment. Combi-weapons/Storm Shields etc

[BrotherMoses]

I think on my I'll equip my veteran assault squad with 1 seargent with dual lightning claws, 2xpower weapons on 2 other marines, and a powerfist. I wouldn't want to have too many lightning claws in my army. Those are suppossed to be kind of rare. I could switch one of the power weapons to a lightning claw though if I wanted.

 

I'm also not sure I want to keep a power fist in my vanguard vets. Its a 5 man squad. If something goes awry he probably won't get to swing.

[Drachnon]

You mean your veteran squad is 5 man in size and has 4 special weapons? That's the kind of equipment I'd only put on 10 man squads. But that might just be my personal preference since I like the ablative wounds.

[Venerable Jazzman]

But that might just be my personal preference since I like the ablative wounds.

i know what you mean, but you are looking at 30 points per wound, which seems a bit steep. I'd rather run them with a Priest and try to keep them alive.

[LordofDeath11]

I wouldn't want to have too many lightning claws in my army. Those are suppossed to be kind of rare.

 

 

Yeah but these are Vanguard Vet's we are talking about here, the Naomi Campbell's of the Blood Angels army...they get what they want, they go where they want, they smack who they feel like smacking. :)

[LordofDeath11]

So can someone smarter than me clarify something for me...does having an additional power sword stacked on top of your original power sword give you yet ANOTHER CC attack? I mean base attacks 2 plus one power sword is 3, plus another power sword is four. I read the rule book but I'm not 100% on the wording. It says "bonus" attack for having close combat weapons and then it says if you have two special weapons you get an "additional attack". 'Bonus" and "additional" being the key words. I understand this to mean each special weapon itself give you one additional attack each.

[JamesI]

So can someone smarter than me clarify something for me...does having an additional power sword stacked on top of your original power sword give you yet ANOTHER CC attack? I mean base attacks 2 plus one power sword is 3, plus another power sword is four. I read the rule book but I'm not 100% on the wording. It says "bonus" attack for having close combat weapons and then it says if you have two special weapons you get an "additional attack". 'Bonus" and "additional" being the key words. I understand this to mean each special weapon itself give you one additional attack each.

 

 

A model with 2 base attacks and a power sword has 2 attacks.

 

That same model adding a second weapon (whether it be a bolt pistol, a chainsword, an infernus pistol or a second power sword) would then have 3 attacks.

 

Special weapons on their own provide no attack bonus.

[LordofDeath11]

Okay, cool, thanks for clearing that up. I want to model one of my VGV's with two power swords because I am OCD when it comes to things being 'even' and I need him to juxtapose/match my VGV with lightning claws.

 

I'm so anal abou that kind of stuff. Can't think of a solution.

[SamaNagol]

Do not... DO NOT pay the points for 2 power swords. Because you get no bonus for doing so. Feel free to model him with 2 power swords, but do not go dropping an extra 15pts into the model to 'buy' him a 2nd power sword.

 

No one will EVER have you up for WYSIWYG anyway.

[JamesI]

Do not... DO NOT pay the points for 2 power swords. Because you get no bonus for doing so. Feel free to model him with 2 power swords, but do not go dropping an extra 15pts into the model to 'buy' him a 2nd power sword.

 

No one will EVER have you up for WYSIWYG anyway.

I agree with this. Call the second sword a chainsword, or just do it because it looks good.

 

I've seen people model 2 swords and count it as a single lightning claw.

[LordofDeath11]

K, cool. Might do this. Cheers.