ac4155 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Hi all, I'm trying to get a record of all the quotes on the two lost primarchs that we have so far so that we have a list of them for future reference and to help us in putting together what little we have about them together. i'll start of with the few i know of: ... in the destiny it would shape for their species. They had all believed. All of them. - Rogal Dorn, in the falls of the Kath Mandau Precinct. The Lightning Tower, page 8. The second and eleventh plinths had been vacant for a long time. No one ever spoke of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded? - Rogal Dorn, in the falls of the Kath Mandau Precinct. The Lighting Tower, page 9. '"... Horus has three of his brother legions with him, you have your fists and thirteen others." "Would that it were fifteen,' mused Dorn "Do not even think it, my friend,' warned Malcador. 'They are lost to us forever." ''I know,' said Dorn - A conversation between Rogal Dorn and Malcador in regards to the war on Mars and the Heresy, Mechanium, page 329. What we know: - Two separate incidents - Lost forever - What is suggested: - where found - Would have sided with the Emperor - the incidents should have acted as warnings So guys can you please put all quotes about the two lost primarchs, including full reference of where it come from, in this thread and then i'll edit this post with them in. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
increaso Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 False Gods pg 284 He stopped by the tank with XI stencilled upon it ... feeling the untapped glories that might have lain ahead for what grew within, but knowing that they would never come to pass. And although possibly a reference to a 'non-lost primarch' pg 296 He turned and saw one tank spewing gasses and screams as it was swept from the ground I'll leave you to interpret what these might tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICHD? Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 What if the portal that swept up the others destroyed two by accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 False Gods pg 284 He stopped by the tank with XI stencilled upon it ... feeling the untapped glories that might have lain ahead for what grew within, but knowing that they would never come to pass. And although possibly a reference to a 'non-lost primarch' pg 296 He turned and saw one tank spewing gasses and screams as it was swept from the ground I'll leave you to interpret what these might tell us. i wonder about the validity of a chaos granted vision. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 there's also a quote in legion - something about something that had been done to a legion before... made by alpharius i think in orbit on the ship before they head to the rendezvous with the cabal. i'll try and find it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 That "would it were 15" quote I find to be very significant, for a very important reason. This is that it proves that both legions did not try to attack the Emperor ,which is what some people think got them erased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 found the bit in legion, though it's Chayne talking to Namatijira, not Alpharius: "I believe their operation and conduct should be reported to the Council of Terra, pending censure or dissolution. It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." there are a few incidents this could allude to, notably the World Eaters actions on (forgot the damn name...). But i don't think that really got any further than horus, certainly not back to the CoT. it would suggest to me that perhaps one/both of the "Missing" legions were dissolved and expunged from all records as some form of censure for some heinous act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 We're talking a regime which commits genocide on a regular basis. The only thing that could qualify as heinous for them is turning Traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 In the Imperium of Man killing of aliens is all good but the mass killing of humans not such a good idea. They appear to have a weird moral code handed down from the Emperor and deviation from this Moral Code/Sense of honour is REALLY frowned upon. The Alpha Legion for exaple are looked down upon for waging an "intelligent" covert type of warfare rather than the more direct approach taken by most other Legions. What Rider-75 has said makes a lot of sense to me and I can imagine a Legion being put on Ice for deviating too far from the Imperial way of life. I also think that it is possible that one or both of these Primarchs had a greater than usual sense of compassion and sympathised with locals at some point and refused to follow orders and wipe them out at the Emperors command... if this is the fate of anyone who dissagrees with the Emperor it would explain to m at least why such powerrful beings as the Primarchs are so blindly willing to follow the Imperial Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trader Voril Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Caliban (Dark Angels home world) had a Chaos taint, and all steps were taken to ensure that secret was kept from the rest of the Imperium because the planet (and possibly chapter and Primarch) would have been destroyed. Logar and the Word Bearers was were censured by the Emperor for taking to long to force compliance, because they were teaching Imperial creed. After that he went under the radar with Chaos worship, so it looked like he was doing as told. Angron was censured for giving his World Eaters aggression implants. The Horus Heresy came up so nothing more was done about this by the Emperor. The Thousand Sons were almost wiped out of history because of their mutations. Magnus stopped the mutations, so they were left to continue the crusade. Then Magnus and T Sons were censured for sorcery. They continued to practice it, but it wasn't until Magnus tried to warn the Emperor about Horus that he made the continued practice blatant. The Wolves were sent, along with the Custodies and Silent Sisterhood, to wipe out the Sons and then remove them from Imperial history. At the gathering of Ullanor Magnus and Mortarion talked about a large gathering of chapters and primarchs previously. Mortarion warned that was forbidden to be discussed. QUOTE - Rogal Dorn, in the falls of the Kath Mandau Precinct. The Lighting Tower, page 9. The second and eleventh plinths had been vacant for a long time. No one ever spoke of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded? QUOTE -Chayne to Namatijira. Legion, p384 "I believe their operation and conduct should be reported to the Council of Terra, pending censure or dissolution. It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." They were both found, and one of them (at least) was censured for inappropriate behavior, or abhorrent mutations. They did not wage war against the others or the Emperor, though. The thought of Horus, or any chapter, doing so was so anathema to other marines that it's very mention would send marines (and primarch) into sudden fits of outrage, and or cause physical discomfort or pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 The recent Soul Drinkers book giving a lot of detail into their backstory gives more than a few hints as to their fate. Spoilers follow. The Gene-seed, which Daenyathos claims was created when the twenty Primarchs were created. Of all twenty sons of the Emperor, two were universally despised, and both were murdered by their brothers and hacked up into thousands of tiny pieces, these pieces were used to make the first Space Marines. Whether or not this is true we can only guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 not sure i can agree with the above for the following: 1) the primarchs were all discovered individually (except A&O obviously). so how the other 1 could have worked together to murder their 2 brothers......? 2) the original astartes were created before the primarchs were rediscovered, having been lost while still being vat-grown. as they were immature and confined to vats, it would also have made it impossible for them to have done what was suggested to create the first marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Well it was being ranted by a loony heretic so it's not going to be entirely accurate. But there might be some truth in the tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDarmy Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 hmm. i dunno. in the thousand sons book magnus says something along the lines of one primarch murdering another primarch as if it had happened before. ill have to go back and see if i can find it. i think it was durring the attack by the wolves on that planet they were trying to save the library on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Consider also that in The First Heretic it is "revealed" that there are 18 Legions, which I think is juicy hinting if nothing else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Consider also that in The First Heretic it is "revealed" that there are 18 Legions, which I think is juicy hinting if nothing else! Not exactly a revelation. We've known that for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Not quite. We never had confirmation whether they were around at the start of the Heresy, whether they existed as Legions or not or whether they are considered such before hand. We know now there are 18 Legions, but before there was speculation the 2 "Lost" Legions were around at the time of the Heresy. Now we don't even know whether they were created. So yes, more evidence to the mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 we DO KNOW that there were 20 legions. all the tables that list the legions (from waaaaayyyyy back to present) run from 1-20 with the 2 missing legions as "expunged from imperial records" or similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Granted that is likely, but not from the begining of The First Heretic, which implies the Imperium does not consider their existance at all. I sure hope they eventually release something solid about the subject, or A D-B get's drunk and ends up posting something he shouldn't! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 the best theory ive heard is that the two missiong primarches (and logically thier legions) carried the pariah gene.. as soon as the Emperor realised his mistake he expunged them and the records from existance. my own theory is that one is trapped within the webway and the other was sent back to 4000bc summoned by some ancient sorcerers (after the chaos gods sent them into the warp).. they named him the Emperor ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Havent read the first heretic but could the quote not just refer to the fact that at that point there were only 18 legions? Meaning that the wahtever it was had alrady happened to the other 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider-75 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Havent read the first heretic but could the quote not just refer to the fact that at that point there were only 18 legions? Meaning that the wahtever it was had alrady happened to the other 2? is what i am assuming. and 1st heretic isn't out yet.... it's a preview extract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
increaso Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Havent read the first heretic but could the quote not just refer to the fact that at that point there were only 18 legions? Meaning that the wahtever it was had alrady happened to the other 2? That is how i read it. On a separate note this topic is already going off topic. I think OP's intent was for this to be a collation of what we know and what we can deduce (not speculate) from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Havent read the first heretic but could the quote not just refer to the fact that at that point there were only 18 legions? Meaning that the wahtever it was had alrady happened to the other 2? The other possibilty is that two Primarchs (Alpharius Omegon and Primarch ?) have not been found yet and their Legions have not been created. The really is not enough information in the extract given to state either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 The other possibilty is that two Primarchs (Alpharius Omegon and Primarch ?) have not been found yet and their Legions have not been created. The really is not enough information in the extract given to state either way. Alpahrius/Omegon is not one of the missing primarchs and I believe from other books in HH series that the events of First Heretic take place long after the rediscovery of all primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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