Skirax Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 So I had a theory the other day and it's quite crazy: Kor Phaeron was always a Traitor. Now, from what I know, old Kor was in the first batch of marines from Colchis and that he fought alongside Lorgar during his Holy War. Ok, easy so far. But Lorgar was supposed to have inspired these men with belief in the Emperor that he saw in visions and liberated them of the belief of the 'old gods of Colchis'. So Kor Phaeron (KH) was amongst these and fought in the Holy War. But that made me wonder how KH came to worship these Gods. So I was thinking; what if he had started on the other team? He fought for the Leaders, and togethor they planned the infiltration of Lorgar's men, and the defeat of his armies. But why? Well, the Leaders wished to bring about the fall of Lorgar and crush his belief in the Emperor that he so valiantly fought for, but they saw that, if Lorgar's visions were true and the Emperor was coming to Colchis (Which we know was true) then this war to prevent rebellion would soon turn into a defiance and, while it may seem long to them, the war would be very short in comparison to the Emperor's Crusade. Maybe the Chaos Gods (who are the old Gods of Colchis) came to them in a 'vision' and so projected their own plans onto the minds of the Leaders. So, they took a very loyal and faithful warrior and used him to infiltrate Lorgar's Army and bring about the downfall of the Emperor. So far: Lorgar prophesise's the Emperor The Leaders realise they haven't got long Kor Phaeron is recruited as the ultimate double agent. So, KH (previously a different name and persona) is inducted into the Holy Army and fights for Lorgar, but ultimately aiming to bring down the Emperor and turn their defiance into a Long War. He waits patiently for several years and, where once he hated Lorgar, he know loves him and takes pity on him because of his blind faith, but still hates the Emperor. He waits until Lorgar's anger is directed at the Emperor, and then he strikes. Wacky idea, but what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 I think that is a pretty common theory, namely that Kor Phaeron, and maybe also others (such as Erebus) were already into Chaos before Lorgar was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 But I'm saying that the whole Heresy was planned, indirectly, from before the Emperor even meeting Lorgar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 It's a possibility; it just seems like a really long-term plan for normal humans, who generally prefer plots that come to fruition within their own lifespans. The Chaos Gods might have inspired/ordered it, true. . . but saying that Phaeron and Erebus are responsible for the 40K plotline as we know it takes some of the mystery out of it for me. I'd rather it be the subtle machinations of dark and scheming gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 The chaos gods planned the Heresy as soon as they leanred of the Emperors plans, Erebus and Kor Phaeron were pawns to be used from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 I didn't say Erebus was in on it, just Kor Phaeron. Erebus came after Lorgar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
increaso Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 The chaos gods planned the Heresy as soon as they learned of the Emperors plans This (in my opinion). Although i don't know how sentient and seperable the chaos gods are from their servants and how divisible they actually are from each other. I would argue that the general opposition to the Great Crusade affects the warp and creates the comparable entities and these warp enitities then gather servants creating a snowball effect. If that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yeah, basically as soon as the big four realised the Emperor was planning on screwing them over and killing them they knew they had to do something... And what better way would having his most favoured son turn on him? Going straight for Horus would be too obvious, they needed another way in... Colchis' populace used to worship them so that planet was a perfect recruiting ground.. Slowly they built up pawns in any legion they could.. and then bam what happened happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yeah pretty much anyone that read the Word Bearers IA and has some basic reading comprehension should come to this as a possibility as Kor Phaeron was a religious leader on Colchis and the old gods of Colchis turn out to be the Chaos gods, and it's Kor Phaeron that comes to Lorgar when the latter is having his crisis of faith, so put two and two together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Disciple Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I dunno, the whole Kor Phaeron was allready a traitor seems a little obvious. Something with a little more depth would be good. Like Kor trying to shock Lorgar back into being himself by making him look into the face of evil to see the light. And it backfires and the two of them become corrupted. . . . I guess we'll just have to wait and see. . . is First Heretic out yet? . . no. . . .damn. . . Disciple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 15, 2010 Author Share Posted August 15, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Check your history, Kor Phaeron was the one who turned Lorgar to Chaos, who then ordered that the whole Legion become Chaotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Check your history, Kor Phaeron was the one who turned Lorgar to Chaos, who then ordered that the whole Legion become Chaotic. Erebus - lacking both the quote and the will to go find it - comments in one of the HH novels that it was he who first "discovered" the Four Powers. So yes, it may have been Kor Phaeron who turned Lorgar but it doesn't make him the first heretic does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Check your history, Kor Phaeron was the one who turned Lorgar to Chaos, who then ordered that the whole Legion become Chaotic. Erebus - lacking both the quote and the will to go find it - comments in one of the HH novels that it was he who first "discovered" the Four Powers. So yes, it may have been Kor Phaeron who turned Lorgar but it doesn't make him the first heretic does it? From Dark Apostles - Index Astartes: Word Bearers: "As the Word Bearers sat becalmed in deep space, following the Emperor`s rebuke of Lorgar`s slow advance, it was Kor Phaeron who first gave voice to the idea that if the Emperor would not accept their worship, there were other beings in the galaxy who would. Kor Phaeron understood Lorgar`s need for acceptance and he knew that the powers of Chaos turned no-one away. Kor Phaeron s quest for power had now led him to Chaos and as Lorgar brooded over the Emperors reproach, Kor Phaeron worked subtle manipulations and whispered appeals to Lorgar`s pride, slowly poisoning the Primarch against his former master." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share Posted August 19, 2010 Thank you, Alecto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Check your history, Kor Phaeron was the one who turned Lorgar to Chaos, who then ordered that the whole Legion become Chaotic. Erebus - lacking both the quote and the will to go find it - comments in one of the HH novels that it was he who first "discovered" the Four Powers. So yes, it may have been Kor Phaeron who turned Lorgar but it doesn't make him the first heretic does it? From Dark Apostles - Index Astartes: Word Bearers: "As the Word Bearers sat becalmed in deep space, following the Emperor`s rebuke of Lorgar`s slow advance, it was Kor Phaeron who first gave voice to the idea that if the Emperor would not accept their worship, there were other beings in the galaxy who would. Kor Phaeron understood Lorgar`s need for acceptance and he knew that the powers of Chaos turned no-one away. Kor Phaeron s quest for power had now led him to Chaos and as Lorgar brooded over the Emperors reproach, Kor Phaeron worked subtle manipulations and whispered appeals to Lorgar`s pride, slowly poisoning the Primarch against his former master." So Kor Phaeron was the first one to tell Lorgar about chaos.But Erebus was the first to turn to chaos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 Erebus was the First Heretic, so planting the blame on Kor Phaeron doesn't work. Check your history, Kor Phaeron was the one who turned Lorgar to Chaos, who then ordered that the whole Legion become Chaotic. Erebus - lacking both the quote and the will to go find it - comments in one of the HH novels that it was he who first "discovered" the Four Powers. So yes, it may have been Kor Phaeron who turned Lorgar but it doesn't make him the first heretic does it? From Dark Apostles - Index Astartes: Word Bearers: "As the Word Bearers sat becalmed in deep space, following the Emperor`s rebuke of Lorgar`s slow advance, it was Kor Phaeron who first gave voice to the idea that if the Emperor would not accept their worship, there were other beings in the galaxy who would. Kor Phaeron understood Lorgar`s need for acceptance and he knew that the powers of Chaos turned no-one away. Kor Phaeron s quest for power had now led him to Chaos and as Lorgar brooded over the Emperors reproach, Kor Phaeron worked subtle manipulations and whispered appeals to Lorgar`s pride, slowly poisoning the Primarch against his former master." So Kor Phaeron was the first one to tell Lorgar about chaos.But Erebus was the first to turn to chaos? So, you're saying that Kor Phaeron managed to turn Lorgar to Chaos, who then issued the order for all Word Bearers to convert to the True Faith, all the while being oblivious to the whims of Chaos, and then Erebus is the first to turn? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Yeah Erebus was just the envoy to the Sons of Horus, so you could say that he was majorly responsible for Horus turning, but it was Kor Phaeron that turned Lorgar especially as Kor was Lorgar's religious mentor before the Emperor's coming on Colchis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Yeah Erebus was just the envoy to the Sons of Horus, so you could say that he was majorly responsible for Horus turning, but it was Kor Phaeron that turned Lorgar especially as Kor was Lorgar's religious mentor before the Emperor's coming on Colchis. And the fact that the IA at no point mentions Erebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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