Road to Nationals.

[Morticon]

Okay gents, well hot off the YIKES BIKES thread, and as requested i'll be writing up a few BatReps and filling peeps in on the issues leading up to the nationals down here where I live.

 

We play a bit of an odd points level - 1650.

SA used to play 1500 like the UK since forever, until peeps decided they wanted a bit more to game with. But, since our major tournies still have 6 games, obviously much bigger games are out of the question.

 

There are three "heats" in each of the major cities of the country in the lead up to the tourney.

There is no "real" qualifier for the nationals ie: you dont have to place or be top 20 etc to play in the Nationals, but it is the most prestigious of the events since people travel accross the country to the host city to partake.

 

 

This year the "team" (not really a team as so much as a group of rag tag individuals) going up from my city are crazy, crazy hardcore.

 

There are 8 players I know that are going up from here, of which about 5 or 6 are multi-tourney winning and previous national winning champs.

 

IG - current SA ranked number one and 2 time regional winner.

Daemons - Two time (if im not mistaken) nationals winner, 1 time Dragonfire singles champ and a few doubles tourney titles. (current ranked number 9 - but one of the better players with the scariest daemon list)

Wolves- (my buddy Level) Two time doubles champ, 1 time Dragonfire singles champ and consistent placer in tournies.

Chaos1 - Multiple Nationals placer (Ranked 7th in the country)

Chaos2 - Veterans tournament winner and regionals placer

Nids - 2time Icon champ, consistent tourney placer

IG2- usual top 5 in tournies and has had me on the ropes every game.

 

 

So, a really really tough, tough group of players and that's just in our city, not the host city which is even bigger.

 

 

 

THE LIST:

 

I have decided to go for something highly mobile and shooty to help me with the biggest threats, guard and daemons.

Specifically the lists of the top two players. My other concern will be orks - the current upcountry regional champions and of course BA - including Ron1n's BA which placed 2nd for Icon.

 

 

Mephiston

This is an obviously choice. His ability to wield 6x S10 attacks means he can deal with vehicles, nobs or anything else thrown his way. He's the silly, simple choice because not only is he an HQ (compulsory) he is a unit unto himself. (ie: most other HQs have to link up with another unit to be effective, investing more points into one target- mephiston doesnt have this problem. Since hes the no-brainer, i'll also be retiring him after this tourney.

Priest- PW, Meltabomb, Bike

 

BA bikers allow for T5 and FNP as well as FC. The mobility the priest has allows me to get FC and FNP where I need it - in the front line. Also, 4 attacks at S5, I5 at WS5 is too good to not have a powerweapon on - regardless of whether or not he only has one wound.

 

10 TAC - Fist, Flamer, Lascannon

RHINO

My staple and workhorse of the list. It does everything I need it to. 255 points to do anything in any situation. Albeit not excellently, but thats where support from my list comes. Also, 10 men is much more sturdy than 5man RAS, allowing my TACs to win by attrition...hopefully.

8 RAS - Thunder Hammer, Melta - JP

Tactical flexibility vs. some lists where I can DoA in get up close. A good aggressive, scoring unit. Wish I had the points for a full 10man though. The melta is there for gribblies and vehicles.

 

5 RAS - Pwr Weapon, Melta

RAZORBACK - LC/TLPG

Im torn between the twin las or the las plas. Ive been rocking las/plas on account of me liking the additional AP2 shots as well as the fact its two weapons systems allowing my razor to be able to go that much further when taking fire. This is my support unit that moves up with the assaults or the TACs.

 

BAAL - HBSS

Another staple. Standard dakka - with mobility to boot. Usually deployed on field, but with the option of outflank it gives me tactical choices in game.

 

PRED - LCSS

The main workhorse of the list, other than the tacs. It rarely "makes its points back" but what it does is provide a continued barrage of high strength and low AP fire, helping out against big monsters or vehicles. Aim it at a rhino and youre likely to get a desired result. Thats what I need.

 

5 Bikers - 2 Plas Gun, Fist w/ Attack Bike - MM

The priest rides with these guys, allowing me to put out excellent amounts of firepower at 12", and very decent firepower at 24" coupled with plague marine level studiness. The mobility and super boosting ability of these guys is my key to defeating the main guard player. Without them, I cant get up fast enough. Theyre not meant for combat, but if they get within range, they can handle themselves very well thanks to the barrage of shooting followed by 11 regular FC attacks, 4 PW (WS5) FC attacks and 3 PF attacks.

 

3 ATK BIKE - 2MM, 1HB

My other stock standard in my lists. Reliable firepower for any occasion. Done in this combination so I can avoid losing whole bases by assigning wounds.

 

 

Zero spamming, nice variety and everything plays to support everything else!

 

Test run BatReps to follow...

comments and thoughts more than welcome.

[Morticon]

So far ive played 4 test games with 1 loss and 3 wins.

 

I'll start off with the loss.

 

I was up against a great Templar list:

 

Marshal- LCs, JP, Orb, Honours, Frag

Champ - Accept any Challenge.

9 Initiates - Fist, Melta

Rhino - smoke, armour

9 Initiates - Fist, Melta

Rhino - smoke, armour

5 Initiates - Las/Plas, 1 Neophyte

5 Initiates - Las/Plas, 1 Neophyte

2 Tornado

2 Tornado

Pred - LasSponsons.

 

1650.

 

Our mate Al is kinda a new player. He's still getting to grips with the more advanced (beardy?) concepts of the game, so we had my friend Dave (multi tourney winning champ) helping him out a bit. I was totally cool with this cause I needed all the challenge I could get.

 

We rolled off for the mish and got 5 objectives in a pitched battle set up. He deployed three along the 12" line near one board edge, I deployed 2 in a similar way only

I elected to go second since the terrain at hand was very heavy, allowing me to mitigate his firepower considerably by responding to set up.

 

He deployed everything except his 1 squad of speeders which would be moving in from the edge.

 

I deployed everything on the board in a strong castle on the left, with mephy by himself on the right. My baal I decided to outflank.

 

The first turn saw a great lucky shot from his las to my Razor blowing it up off the bat - and then me lose 3 guys in the explosion.

The rest of his army chilled out and didnt move up over aggressively.

 

In my turn I tried to return some of the fire power. I moved mephiston up, in cover, but still in full view of a decent part of his army. (I lost a wound moving up too - thanks to perils). My attack bikers turboed up the right flank to help out with the speeder counter or eventually flank the small shooty squad.

 

In his turn, his speeders moved out his temps disembarked and headed to mephy and all available firepower aimed at him. His 2nd turn was going to be the decider with me having left a lure out for him. With the help of his partner in crime, he didnt fall for the lure/counter and instead set up a stronger hold and bided for time. This would prove to be the ebst move of the game.

 

Meph then got taken down to two wounds, but luckily he had failed his charge to finish him off!

 

In my turn I tried to get my rhino up and my assaulters broke off from the main castle to help mephy with the disembarked templars.

My priest split off too to give the assaulters FC. The other bikers tried to long range shoot his jumpers.

 

This is where i made my biggest mistake.

Mephy failed one armour save and then got toasted by the PF, after a poor set of rolls. This left a still largely in tact BT squad fighting it out with the assaulters.

 

At this point I knew I was already in deep trouble. I had broken up my force and separated the key units - as well as having lost mephy - a really important unit for this game.

 

From that point it was all back foot fighting, trying to make use of my mobility and firepower to strafe the enemy. However, he got a lucky shot on my rhino, exploding it, and countering with his assault squad lef by choppy marshal.

 

I had to now fight for contesting and hammering his units claiming. It was a drawn out battle that I couldnt win, and could only fight to minimise the damage done on me.

The game ended with one contested objective, and one claimed, with me only having a baal, a pred and 2 marines left in the game.

 

Silly play on my part was fully responsible for it!

[R0N1N]

Hey Mort,

 

1st, wow, I'm flattered that you actually mention me as having a BA list you worry about. anyway, I hope we don't play each other during the tourney, well not until the last game when we play for 1st... :)

 

That list of yours is looking very interesting, and I'm glad you also don't conform to the normal spammy BA lists that I see all over (no offence to anyone using then succesfully), there is just so much more that BA can put out there that can also be game winning.

 

It's a pitty though that the bikes are not troop choices. I see only 3 troop choices and that should be enough as only 1 game will have 5 objectives, the rest of the games 3 should be adequate.

 

How do you think you'll fare with the two KP games we'll play? I just feel that BA usually give a few KP away with the Razor's and Rhino's (and a certain droppod I still use that delivers death, :huh: )

 

Just maybe to add to your explanation of our Nationals for everyone else, here you have the pre determined games we'll play over 2 days:

 

Scenarios

The following Scenario and deployments from Page 90 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook will be used:

Game 1 – Seize Ground – Using 5 objective markers – Dawn of war

Game 2 – Capture and Control – Spearhead

Game 3 –Annihilation – Pitched Battle

Game 4 – Capture and Control – Pitched Battle

Game 5 – Seize Ground – Using 3 objective markers – Spearhead

Game 6 – Annihilation – Dawn of War

[Morticon]

OH wow! Love those missions!

 

Thanks for supplying that.

 

 

Ron1n- with 11 KP in my list, im not too fussed. I think most lists will run between 8 and 14. I think its nicely in the middle. I dont have tooo many soft KPs, and my damage output is high enough to go for the easy KPs.

 

As for the list, its very similar to what I took to regionals - i played a liiitle bit similar in ICON too. Hopefully it can do something!

[R0N1N]

you can find the rules pack and other info on the local WarhammerGenerals website under tournaments.

 

I like that they gave it out like that, can pretty much tailor your army for the 4 objective games as the two killpoint games will just be shoot/kill/maim and destroy thehehehe

[BrotherMoses]

Good luck Morticon! For the Emperor and Sanguinius! DEATH! DEATH!

[Morticon]

Played a tournament Mish this afternoon with a nid opponent. It was annihilation/spearhead.

 

He had:

 

Tervigon

2 Hive Guard

2 Hive Guard

2 Hive Guard

Tervigon

Tervigon

10 Gaunts

10 Gaunts

8 Stealers w/ Broodlord

Trygon

Trygon

 

Almost everything had poison/adrenal glands.

 

He got first turn, chose the board edge and set up. He deployed quite spread out and evenly balanced not knowing where i'd be coming from.

 

 

Unsupported my BA are nothing, so I castled hard on one side, making sure some of my vehicles were behind and then touching cover (to get the 4+ save from the hive guard).

My baal I positioned away from the main castle near the middle, to push the infiltrating Stealers back from the middle (i would then scout move in front of my Razorback, touching it, as to give it a 4+ too should the be shot at.

 

 

In his first turn, I got very lucky. I passed all three cover saves I had to make.

Everything else of his moved up slowly.

 

In my first, I didnt move overly aggressively, i positioned the bikers to take shots on the hiveys and try reduce incoming fire power.

I focussed on one gaunt squad that was covering the hive guard and then the hive guard itself.

I managed to kill the gaunts but only took the hivies down one model.

 

In his turn, his shooting destroyed my razorback and shook my baal. His stealers got closer and his gaunt squad tied up my attack bikers.

 

My bikes then moved around to try unleash death on the stealers. Sadly it wasnt too effective, with my bolters being less than stellar to wound. I did take a few out though.

 

At this stage I must mention, that Ive been moving mephiston cautiously, biding time and waiting for the trygons to get closer, and hopefully out of Shadow range of the Tervies.

This came as early as 2nd turn, when the trygon had tried to get a charge on the razor. Mephy moved in and sorted him out chop-chop.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2759/img00099201009121114.jpg

 

 

In his next turn, he sent his trygon and a whole horde of forces towards the right to help deal with the bikers. His hivies also wrecked my Rhino, forcing my marines out.

In combat I focussed all my attacks into the gaunts, making sure I won the combat.

My T5 and FNP worked wonders and I actually managed to stay in combat for a few rounds, long enough for my assaulters to jump on over and help out.

 

My attack bike squad was less fortunate and the Trygon and other gaunt squad made quick work of him.

 

In my phase, mephy went around the back to tackle the Trygon while the assaulters came forward. After the shooting of the tactical squad and the assaulters, I double charged the stealers and the gaunts, making one huge combat. With the help of FC, i did so well in combat that he lost by -11 meaning that I took out all three squads I was in combat with.

 

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9671/img00101201009121153.jpg

 

Mephy failed his first two tests, and periled one, but made it up when a lucky forceweapon shot took out the Trygon.

 

At this point it was going to be very tough for him to come back. The back of his assault was broken.

 

He tried to get back into the fight by spawning more gaunts and charging in his tervy.

Sadly though, with the assault squad to support and then tactical squad coming up as further support, it wasnt going to be long before the Tervy went down.

 

He did manage to take out the priest and the bikers eventually.

 

It ended when he called it in the 5th with only 2 squads of gaunts left (one 4man with mephy in combat with them), one 10man and one tervy left.

 

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9977/img00104201009121226.jpg

 

If it had gone another turn he could have been wiped out.

 

I had lost a 5 KPs and he had lost around 12 or so.

 

 

So, im sitting on 5 played 1 lost with this list.

More to come.

[Demoulius]

hows are assault squads working for you mort? you dont have that many models on the table to deal with assaults...do the bikers (and mephiston) fill the gap that much?

[Morticon]

Dem, very well so far. Nothing goes in unsupported in this list though.

 

I have to play in a very disciplined way in that I cant send any one unit after another unless its meph or unless its about to be shot to hell by the rest of the army.

[R0N1N]

Dem, very well so far. Nothing goes in unsupported in this list though.

 

I have to play in a very disciplined way in that I cant send any one unit after another unless its meph or unless its about to be shot to hell by the rest of the army.

 

That is something that I struggle with... for some reason I always fall for that 'bait' that's put out, but then again, I usually have my army positioned such away that they can cover each other while moving over the table to pommel the enemy. but that's jsut how my army is setup to perform. If I sit and wait for the enemy I usually get into too much trouble with my army.

 

 

Well done Mort, sounds like your army composition and those bikes do pretty well. as I said before, thee is only 1 table where I'd gladly face your list, that is table 1 during game 6, that's the only time :wub:

 

good luck playtesting, sounds like you've found that sweet spot with tactics that work well for your army.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'm looking forward to more batreps from you. I always learn a lot from you - mostly how you use your units to support each other. I really like your list a lot as you have said there is no spam. I like that a lot.

 

0b :wub:

[JamesI]

Dem, very well so far. Nothing goes in unsupported in this list though.

 

I have to play in a very disciplined way in that I cant send any one unit after another unless its meph or unless its about to be shot to hell by the rest of the army.

 

That is something that I struggle with... for some reason I always fall for that 'bait' that's put out, but then again, I usually have my army positioned such away that they can cover each other while moving over the table to pommel the enemy. but that's jsut how my army is setup to perform. If I sit and wait for the enemy I usually get into too much trouble with my army

 

I think this is the biggest issue for me too. When I keep my army together, I usually win, if I allow myself to get split up, I struggle.

[Demoulius]

Dem, very well so far. Nothing goes in unsupported in this list though.

 

I have to play in a very disciplined way in that I cant send any one unit after another unless its meph or unless its about to be shot to hell by the rest of the army.

 

That is something that I struggle with... for some reason I always fall for that 'bait' that's put out, but then again, I usually have my army positioned such away that they can cover each other while moving over the table to pommel the enemy. but that's jsut how my army is setup to perform. If I sit and wait for the enemy I usually get into too much trouble with my army

 

I think this is the biggest issue for me too. When I keep my army together, I usually win, if I allow myself to get split up, I struggle.

same here James ^_^ seems the blood angels are a scalpel army eh? use tactical precision to cut the heart out of the army or get your own cut out :wub:

[the jeske]

seems the blood angels are a scalpel army eh? use tactical precision to cut the heart out of the army or get your own cut out

because priests can be killed out of units, mefo cant join units, rhinos are 10 man and stuff costs sometimes more.

 

 

 

Always nice to read stuff from you mort. Question about the set up of bikes and Attack bikes. I know that playing with a MM in bikes and the AB squads means you can counter[technicly] two units , but isnt it a waste of the biker bolters [and sometimes plasma ?] and the hvy bolter in the AB squad ? I always played Hvy bolters in biker units[but then again it was in a khan list , so it was a bit different] .

Or is this due to MC/IG meta [more possible wounds , with two targets meaning less chance of all your high str shoting dieing in one go]?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think Mort includes a HB AB for wound allocation.

 

0b :wub:

[Morticon]

Jeske - as OB mentioned, its for wound allocation. It saves bases countless times. In combat, or in shooting. And lessens my chance of losing an entire base from DT checks too.

 

It also gives me a decent all-rounder squad, but that really is just in addition to the main reason which is the wound allocation.

[Grimtooth]

Unsupported my BA are nothing, so I castled hard on one side, making sure some of my vehicles were behind and then touching cover (to get the 4+ save from the hive guard).

My baal I positioned away from the main castle near the middle, to push the infiltrating Stealers back from the middle (i would then scout move in front of my Razorback, touching it, as to give it a 4+ too should the be shot at.

 

I don't get what you mean by "touching" cover to get a 4+ save against his Hive Guard.

 

Also, it seems that you rely on Mephiston a great deal. Even going as far in your loss to explain away the loss due to losing Mephiston. Do you feel at all that placing so much importance on one model is a handicap, both psychologically and in tactics.

[Demoulius]

Brother Ramses, against hiveguard you need to be physically touching terrain (or other models) to get cover saves against hive guard. and since theyre S8, need no LOS and have a decent range....yea you WANT that cover save :lol:

 

as for losing Mephiston, its one of the few dedicated melee units in his list, i can also see that losing him is akin to a kick to the groin :sweat:

[Morticon]

I don't get what you mean by "touching" cover to get a 4+ save against his Hive Guard.

 

Also, it seems that you rely on Mephiston a great deal. Even going as far in your loss to explain away the loss due to losing Mephiston. Do you feel at all that placing so much importance on one model is a handicap, both psychologically and in tactics.

 

Yup, what Dem said.

 

As for Mephy...you're exactly right.

 

Mephy is a linchpin unit. He ties things together in my list. He offers the hard hitting support for where I need it. The army can do well without him, but its designed to work with him if that makes sense.

 

I use mephy a lot more frivolously than one would expect, often sending him into the fray to do what he can. For the most part he causes a decent amount of carnage before he pegs. And by that time, the rest of my army is doing some decent damage too. In the BT game, I played too carelessly and allowed him to be shot by too much at one time, and I selected the wrong unit to charge with him.

 

As for the psychology, Im not sure entirely what you mean - but im not too phased if I lose him if he does a decent job. However, if I lose him right off the bat, then there are serious issues for the most part - however I like to think i'm a smart enough player to not let that happen.

 

However, i do feel he is a crutch of a character/piece which is why I said already I'll be retiring him after nationals.

[Morticon]

Game 6 of Playtesting:

 

5 Objectives, Dawn of War.

 

Dark Eldar:

 

Drachon - terrorfex - Retinue - blaster/bling

Raider - shields, amp, rack

Homonculos - flamer thing, crucible(sp?)

Homonculos - flamer thing

6x10 Warriors -2 lances

2x6 Wytches - bling, blasters-

Raiders - shields, amp, rack

3 x Dizzy Ravagers

 

 

 

He won set up and opted to go first.

He deployed two shooty warrior squads and left the rest to come on from turn one.

 

In return I deployed mephiston in cover (but 18" away from his one squad) and left the rest to come in turn one, save for my assault squad which I would be deepstriking.

 

Now, EMP is no slouch - hes won a few local titles here and came 2nd in the Japan WWW both years.

 

Soo..he ran away with his squad - and then fleeted to make sure meph couldnt get first turn charges.

 

He also turboed all the vehicles on to make sure that they were getting 4+ saves. Beyond that nothing else was really able to shoot.

 

 

In my 1st turn I moved the Rhino 12" up to make use of the only search light I had, with the baal and the attack bike squad in tow - since he had deployed right up the board.

The rest of the units boosted up where they could.

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8922/img1574g.jpg

 

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/327/img1576b.jpg

 

I played a little more spread out than I was comfortable with, for two reasons, I could not approach one flank because of his mobility and because of a terrain piece making things difficult for me. The rhino just managed to spot the enemy, and the baal and the bikes opened up on the squad, doing tons of damage and eventually breaking them.

Mephy just moved up intimidatingly - ready to get into combat from round two.

 

 

In his next he started opening up fire.

With all the hits, misses, damage rolls and cover saves he only managed to stun the pred, the rhino, kill one biker and take a wound of the attack bike.

 

In my 2nd turn i keep moving up and focus on the troops on the right. My assaulters come down, and I put them behind the snowy terrain in cover from what appears to be most of the disintegrator ravagers.

Mephy jumps over and gets ready to take out the far right squad in the ruin, while the bikers focus on the one to the left of that squad.

My attack bikers turboed up to cover the pred and make themselves a target in the next turn.

My razorback moves a bit up to cover and support my assaulters and manages to immob a raider! The assaulters ran to spread out, but only rolled a one, meaning that they would still all be hit by a template!! ><;

 

The bikers shooting is less than stellar and the baal has to reposition so loses his shooting.

Mephy charges in and kills all.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8919/img1577g.jpg

 

 

 

Third turn looked like things could go poorly.

He moved into position, and NUKED my assault squad. One ravager and boom. bummer.

Then...in a moment of complete an utter oddness on my part - as I'm writing this now - I had forgotten that I had turboed my attack bikes- and therefore had a 3++ save. So, i took all the AP2 hits on the nose. Very weird. I obviously lost those.

He had also moved his wytch raider to the bikers and flamed the bikers with the Homonc., shot with blasters and did some decent damage there too.

 

Luckily for me, the bikers break, but dont fall back a crazy distance.

This allows me to split off the priest, and move the bikers to counter the squad that shot them, while mephy can go further into thr fray!

 

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9613/img1580w.jpg

 

 

While on the left side the razor and the rhino where ready to rock again.

 

i managed to take out a few more vehicles on the left side, and the baal kept laying down decent fire. The pred also took out another raider. While mephy waded into yet another squad.

 

In the next few turns, the BA kept going forward - the biker priest single handedly went through 3x 10 man squads killing each one in the opponents turn allowing another charge in mine. Mephy finally went down after taking out 2 or 3 squads and a ravager by himself.

 

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5049/img1582w.jpg

 

In the end, I had destroyed everything of his except for one ravager and one homonc. and an immobile raider.

However, he had done considerable damage to me with only one PF biker, one Razor and 1 RAS left, 7 Tacs and the preds left.

 

In the end however I was 2 objectives to nil up.

 

 

Currently - 6 played, 1 loss.

[Demoulius]

nice batrep mort ;) losing 2 units in 1 turn is painfull, specialy if one had a 3++ ;) learn from it and move in i say. you did very well dispite that odd turn :)

 

the priest killing the 30 warriors was from sweeping advance i take it? :)

[Grimtooth]

Brother Ramses, against hiveguard you need to be physically touching terrain (or other models) to get cover saves against hive guard. and since theyre S8, need no LOS and have a decent range....yea you WANT that cover save :)

 

as for losing Mephiston, its one of the few dedicated melee units in his list, i can also see that losing him is akin to a kick to the groin ;)

 

I know the rules for Hive Guard, but what I was meant by asking is that do the rules for Hive Guard ranged override the 50% obscured result needed for vehicles to get a cover save. Or do you need to be obscured AND fulfill the results to get a cover save for Hive Guard. I wasn't sure that is what he meant by in and touching cover during his deployment.

 

By my reading of the rule, the armor facing the Hive Guard would have to obscured AND the vehicle would have to be in the cover or touching the cover that obscures the vehicle for it to get a cover save.

[Morticon]

By my reading of the rule, the armor facing the Hive Guard would have to obscured AND the vehicle would have to be in the cover or touching the cover that obscures the vehicle for it to get a cover save.

 

This is how I play it, yes!

[R0N1N]

Nice reports so far Mort. those bikes seem more and more powerfull as you go on.

 

Your generalship comes to the fore when faced with things like your RAS and Bikes being destroyed turn 1 and you re-allign your army to absorb the losses and still continue to take the win. So many times have I seen guys give up at that point and play for a draw (and then loose) becasue their "plans" go completely wasted right from the start.

 

Last week I played a Dread heavy armylist (6 AssCan Dreads with a master master of the forge), and deppstriked 400 points of termies and a priest... misshap got them destroyed, but I still played my tactics and in the end 1 lonely assault marine devied shooting from 3 Dreads and a 5 man tac as well as the assault from the tac's to win the game for me by contesting the enemy objective, although I had to say that if he died then the game would have drawn and Id have lost on victory points, but hey, 1 stuborn marine is all you need....

 

Good luck with the playtests, just over 1 week to go and then it's WAR!!!!

[lorider2]

Thanks for the reports. I think you have a sweet list though I feel SWs would give you trouble. Also I can't help but comment on your combi-pred in your pic. Maybe I have it wrong but it seems like modeling for advantage to raise up the lascannons side sponsons like that.