Road to Nationals.

[shatter]

Say 5 Our Emperors and 10 Hail Sanguinius' and the dice gods will forgive you your sins.

[Crynn]

As always Mort, great Bat Reps and from what I can see you've already learned from your few mistakes. Will all make them, but if you've learned and dont make them again your doing better than most. On a corbs note, I tried to start up a corbulo tactica just to see what people do and dont use him for. You obviously have great success with him. Would you use him if Meph wasnt in your list or is it really a partnership of the two that you find so deadly?

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Morticon]

As always Mort, great Bat Reps and from what I can see you've already learned from your few mistakes. Will all make them, but if you've learned and dont make them again your doing better than most. On a corbs note, I tried to start up a corbulo tactica just to see what people do and dont use him for. You obviously have great success with him. Would you use him if Meph wasnt in your list or is it really a partnership of the two that you find so deadly?

 

Regards

 

Crynn

 

 

I'd use him with or without Meph. That partnership as you termed it, is epic - really useful.

But, its for things that go wrong when they statistically shouldnt.

 

Failing a save on a power fist sarge, failing a LD9 LD check, needing a 2+ to destroy a vehicle etc etc. All those things that really should go your way statistically, but just dont. Thats where Corbs shines- not so much the long shots. That and hes not all that bad in combat :)

[Morticon]

Quick side note, I played Astorath + 1 biker instead of mephy last night.

 

It was GREAT having 4 of 5 units fearless/FC - but I could not help but think how much better it is with mephiston. Its actually a bit sad :drool:

 

 

On a side note- if anyone is keen to have a game against me on vassal online and see how I attempt to play the list - dont be shy! Would be cool!

[lorider2]

I thought vasal online shut down a while back, is there aversion out there that supports our "new" Blood Angels?

[Morticon]

I thought vasal online shut down a while back, is there aversion out there that supports our "new" Blood Angels?

 

The site that hosted the files was shut down - vassal is still very much alive and running, and the files are quite easily tracked down with a bit of net savvy.

[Crynn]

Quick side note, I played Astorath + 1 biker instead of mephy last night.

 

It was GREAT having 4 of 5 units fearless/FC - but I could not help but think how much better it is with mephiston. Its actually a bit sad :(

 

 

On a side note- if anyone is keen to have a game against me on vassal online and see how I attempt to play the list - dont be shy! Would be cool!

 

 

I find it hard to take how Astorath is so overcosted, people will argue this point blank, but Mort I think you can see, his ability isn't that usefull when you have a couple of sang priests who you want for FnP anyway ignoring the FC. I find he doesn't add much to the army and really doesn't hit 'that' hard.

 

It was just nice to see another high end player actually agree with me on this.

 

Or maybe I've put words in your mouth... :)

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[mercury]

Because of his ability to increase the occurrence of Red Thirst, I'd suggest that Astorath was a very difficult character to cost. In my experience he appears overcosted in smaller games, but is of greater value in larger ones where higher numbers of units are fielded. For this reason I don't think that I would select him in 1000-1750 point games, but he would certainly be worth considering at 2000+

[Morticon]

I find it hard to take how Astorath is so overcosted, people will argue this point blank, but Mort I think you can see, his ability isn't that usefull when you have a couple of sang priests who you want for FnP anyway ignoring the FC. I find he doesn't add much to the army and really doesn't hit 'that' hard.

 

It was just nice to see another high end player actually agree with me on this.

 

Or maybe I've put words in your mouth... ;)

Regards

Crynn

;)

Maybe a bit of the latter bro ! :D

 

He worked really, really well for me, because I only rock with one priest in my lists. FNP is great and I believe its the icing on the cake. But, I believe BA (maybe mine?) rely on the use of FC for the most part to hit hard.

I think hes a tiiiiny bit overcosted- but not excessively. Personally i think he could have done with 1 more attack. But, its all good. Id have to play test him. Fearless BAs are awesome.

 

I do believe that astorath, moreso than all the other HQs (except dante) require serious thought about the composition of your list. You must play to his strengths.

Attack bikes (usually LD8), 10man devastators (able to split and still be fearless), even vanguard who will not have a 50% chance of FC and fearless - all things that help with astorath.

 

But, if you like running two priests or more - then def. not worth it for you i think.

[Grimtooth]

Mort,

 

I have been thinking very much about Mephiston and some ways to use him.

 

Now for the most part all I hear about Meph is hide him behind some armor all the way up the board. I feel this tactic is using a dedicated transport or even dedicated FOC heavy vehicle to deliver him when they should have their own designation and/or mission. I mean running him behind a Rhino gets him up the field, but at the cost of the Rhino being a target and thus not doing what it was bought for in the first place.

 

I was thinking that Meph could instead be run 2.5" away from a shielding assault squad with sang priest. It would give him a inv save equivalent to an iron halo. Another benefit would be the following; one tactic that my Thunderlord has to face is concentrated small arms fire forcing many, many saves hoping that massed amount of saves will at least result in some failed. I see Meph having the same problem. Being within the bubble of the sang priest would allow him FnP against the occasional failed save versus massed firing.

 

It would also serve another purpose of a buffered assault against being picked out in close combat. The assault squad would assault first with Meph then being able to safely pick his spot to assault and minimizing his chances of being base to base with a SCCW.

 

Now as far as movement, the assault squad would have to move as slow as Meph, if he were to fail his Wings test, so as not to leave him behind. Even then though, Meph does have Fleet whereas the assault squad does not. So even if failing his Wings test for some reason, the reduced movement would never be less then 7" while maximum could indeed be the assault squads full 18" charge. If all went perfect with Meph for the 24" assault, he ties up the unit for a turn while the assault squad charges next turn. Personally I would not let Meph outrun his support unit.

 

And that I think would be the basis for running Meph; he needs a close support unit. A unit that would give him FC, FnP, and a 4+ cover save as long as he remains behind them and within range of the sang priest. The support unit would also allow for minimizing risk in assaults via BtB placement. And lastly it isn't creating a throwaway unit to cover Meph's butt. The assault squad would fully be a complement to Meph as he would be to them.

 

Comments/criticisms?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Basically Mephiston works well with mech lists since BA have fast vehicles he can hide behind. He does not work nearly as well though with DoA lists. To me it is just that simple really .

 

0b :P

[Morticon]

Mort,

 

I have been thinking very much about Mephiston and some ways to use him.

 

Now for the most part all I hear about Meph is hide him behind some armor all the way up the board. I feel this tactic is using a dedicated transport or even dedicated FOC heavy vehicle to deliver him when they should have their own designation and/or mission. I mean running him behind a Rhino gets him up the field, but at the cost of the Rhino being a target and thus not doing what it was bought for in the first place.

 

I was thinking that Meph could instead be run 2.5" away from a shielding assault squad with sang priest. It would give him a inv save equivalent to an iron halo. Another benefit would be the following; one tactic that my Thunderlord has to face is concentrated small arms fire forcing many, many saves hoping that massed amount of saves will at least result in some failed. I see Meph having the same problem. Being within the bubble of the sang priest would allow him FnP against the occasional failed save versus massed firing.

 

It would also serve another purpose of a buffered assault against being picked out in close combat. The assault squad would assault first with Meph then being able to safely pick his spot to assault and minimizing his chances of being base to base with a SCCW.

 

Now as far as movement, the assault squad would have to move as slow as Meph, if he were to fail his Wings test, so as not to leave him behind. Even then though, Meph does have Fleet whereas the assault squad does not. So even if failing his Wings test for some reason, the reduced movement would never be less then 7" while maximum could indeed be the assault squads full 18" charge. If all went perfect with Meph for the 24" assault, he ties up the unit for a turn while the assault squad charges next turn. Personally I would not let Meph outrun his support unit.

 

And that I think would be the basis for running Meph; he needs a close support unit. A unit that would give him FC, FnP, and a 4+ cover save as long as he remains behind them and within range of the sang priest. The support unit would also allow for minimizing risk in assaults via BtB placement. And lastly it isn't creating a throwaway unit to cover Meph's butt. The assault squad would fully be a complement to Meph as he would be to them.

 

Comments/criticisms?

 

BO above is partly right! In a strictly DoA list, its debateable. Thats why I always run mixed lists.

 

As for your general usage it is spot on as far as im concerned.

 

Whenever I set up with Mephy I factor in two main things.

 

1: AP2/1 Weaponry

2: Counter Charge Strength.

 

If 1 is high, then mephy goes exactly as described by you- behind/with the assaulters. With 2 it then depends on a whole bunch of things.

 

But, wherever Mephy is, he should never be without a 4++.

 

And yes- mephy and a squad = killy killy awesome.

[Grimtooth]

Basically Mephiston works well with mech lists since BA have fast vehicles he can hide behind. He does not work nearly as well though with DoA lists. To me it is just that simple really .

 

0b :P

 

Well as I mentioned I think this is a waste of resources. Example,

 

Rhino transport that is doing duty as shield wall for Meph gets popped. You now have a unt footslogging. Were they supposed to assault something important? Were they supposed to claim an objective? You have killed their mobility in the name of saving Meph from possibly taking a wound and thus jeopardizing the units mission. At this point, what do you do with Meph? Find him another vehicle to hide behind thus repeating the process for some other embarked unit?

 

Another question then arises with the illusion of fast vehicles being "matched" to being with Meph. Because of the lack of assault ramps on everything but the LR and SR, he would be hiding behind a vehicle to still end up assaulting on his own and defenders react being able to place SCCW in BtB. Even a loaded transport is enough of a support unit to run with Meph imo. He needs boots on the ground to support him not vehicle screening.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Mephiston works with mech as both a deterrent and a very aggressive threat. You can both ways.

 

I use the Sanguinor all the time for my DoA list. If I played mech it would be the Lord of Death. There is absolutely nothing wrong with fielding the best a codex has to offer. I learned that a long time ago .

 

0b :)

[the jeske]

Find him another vehicle to hide behind thus repeating the process for some other embarked unit?

nope . now its turn 2 and you charge. BAs because everything they have is fast do a 2ed turn charge .

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For truth DoA is geared around a 2nd turn alphastrike. The use of our jump pack rules are very powerful. The Luficer patterned chassis is also very strong, plus we have the Stormraven which integrates well for us. I think it's quite possible when the SR kit is officially released it will become more prevalent.

 

0b :)

[Crynn]

Mort,

 

I have been thinking very much about Mephiston and some ways to use him.

 

Now for the most part all I hear about Meph is hide him behind some armor all the way up the board. I feel this tactic is using a dedicated transport or even dedicated FOC heavy vehicle to deliver him when they should have their own designation and/or mission. I mean running him behind a Rhino gets him up the field, but at the cost of the Rhino being a target and thus not doing what it was bought for in the first place.

 

I was thinking that Meph could instead be run 2.5" away from a shielding assault squad with sang priest. It would give him a inv save equivalent to an iron halo. Another benefit would be the following; one tactic that my Thunderlord has to face is concentrated small arms fire forcing many, many saves hoping that massed amount of saves will at least result in some failed. I see Meph having the same problem. Being within the bubble of the sang priest would allow him FnP against the occasional failed save versus massed firing.

 

It would also serve another purpose of a buffered assault against being picked out in close combat. The assault squad would assault first with Meph then being able to safely pick his spot to assault and minimizing his chances of being base to base with a SCCW.

 

Now as far as movement, the assault squad would have to move as slow as Meph, if he were to fail his Wings test, so as not to leave him behind. Even then though, Meph does have Fleet whereas the assault squad does not. So even if failing his Wings test for some reason, the reduced movement would never be less then 7" while maximum could indeed be the assault squads full 18" charge. If all went perfect with Meph for the 24" assault, he ties up the unit for a turn while the assault squad charges next turn. Personally I would not let Meph outrun his support unit.

 

And that I think would be the basis for running Meph; he needs a close support unit. A unit that would give him FC, FnP, and a 4+ cover save as long as he remains behind them and within range of the sang priest. The support unit would also allow for minimizing risk in assaults via BtB placement. And lastly it isn't creating a throwaway unit to cover Meph's butt. The assault squad would fully be a complement to Meph as he would be to them.

 

Comments/criticisms?

 

 

I don't find that Meph runing behind a transport or other vehicle compromises that vehicle or it's squad at all. Meph normally wants to head into the thick of it and so does my RAS with razorback as does half of my tac squad with melta combi melta and fist with a rhino. many times me vindis or baal will push up to so Meph has plenty of vehicles to screen hime where the vehicles job hasn't changed due to Meph.

 

Also I play an army with a high ammount of priority targets. even at 1750 I have two vindis and baal las autocannon pred honor guard and when people waste their fire power into trying to kill my rhinos and razorbacks only to find that exposing just 5 troops really doesnt effect my game much they have already lost as my dmging units will do much more in return. The players who attack my troops and their transports as first priority always loose because of it. killing a rhino to get to meph is fine, they were going to have to kill it eventually anyway but making them try to do this first makes my game easier. putting him behind an assault squad so he gets just a save isnt as effective and also means that my opponent has a nice easy assault squad to shoot at right off the bat.

 

As for support, I agree Meph should have some back up and I generally run an assault squad behind vehicles near him that can join in on his assault and force multiple combats as such.

 

Overall I think vehicles is a much better way of screening Meph that with assault troops. But you have made some good points

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Kurb]

For truth DoA is geared around a 2nd turn alphastrike. The use of our jump pack rules are very powerful. The Luficer patterned chassis is also very strong, plus we have the Stormraven which integrates well for us. I think it's quite possible when the SR kit is officially released it will become more prevalent.

 

0b ;)

 

I hopes....

[Wildfire]

Because of his ability to increase the occurrence of Red Thirst, I'd suggest that Astorath was a very difficult character to cost. In my experience he appears overcosted in smaller games, but is of greater value in larger ones where higher numbers of units are fielded. For this reason I don't think that I would select him in 1000-1750 point games, but he would certainly be worth considering at 2000+

 

This is true of the whole run of special characters GW has been putting out lately. It's one reason why I really miss the trait system. It did have it's flaws, but at least it attempted to balance the benefits against any size list.

[Corby]

Fantastic Paint job on your bikers mort.