Honour Guard

[th0r]

I really want to include an honor guard in my army (the banner really), but every time I look at it, it seems like there just going to die and be a waste of 200+ points. I'm wondering what your guys experience with this unit is, and what you prefer to load them out with. Right now I'm fighting for points so I can't kit them out how I want, but right now I have them with a chapter banner, a blood champion and jump packs. Jump packs are a must for me (I'm running a jump pack list), as is the banner (reason for the unit at all). I want to replace the blood champion with a power fist but literally my list is so tight I don't have 5pts to spare lol! So what do you guys think, keep the honor guard or ditch for something more practical (a priest + something)?

[SamaNagol]

For what you get, they are actually very good value

[surelock]

I load mine out with the champion and 3 melta guns and sometimes the banner, even in close combat they are pretty hoss, and with Astorath joining the crew they are very durable and deadly.

[Emperors Immortals]

Im a big fan of running naked squads were i can, i love the HG with banner, 1 power weapon and melta bomb i find its plenty and is like a small VV with Priest attached.

 

ALternativly a priest in a RaS is also a killer combo.

[xa0s]

ALternativly a priest in a RaS is also a killer combo.

 

I DEFINITELY would vouch for that! I had a gaming recent Sunday, and my RAS squad with priest attached killed the C'tan Nightbringer. It is definitely worth its cost!

[OoZo]

I read a post recently on Bels(Bellsoflostsouls) where they ranked honor guards as the most dangerous squad in the game.

What they fielded was Honor guards with JP, 2 Power fist, 2 melta guns, chapter banner, all had stormshields .

They attached a libriarian with prefered enemy and a chaplain..

 

So what do you got?.. What you have is a unit aprox 300p with, one chaplain and one librarian.. But if you look at the unit..

Since you have prefered enemy all your guys will reroll to hit(prefered enemy) and re-roll to wound(chaplain).. They have 3+ power armor, invun. save since the stormshield AND feel no pain.. They have scary amounts of attacks and have melta guns and power weapons in form of the librarian and chaplain, and a force weapon...

 

Tried this in a recent game vs tyrands... they were scary as hell....

 

This unit work most excellent in jumpy heavy lists, since we all know how good Attack squads with an priest attached to it is, as long as they have decent numbers left in the squad. Believe me people will my scared of your honor guards, and if you bring a vindicator or two along with you also.. they will have one tough time deciding what to shoot at...

 

cheers

[SnorriSnorrison]

So what do you got?.. What you have is a unit aprox 300p with, one chaplain and one librarian.. But if u look at the unit..

Since u have prefered enemy all your guys will reroll to hit(prefered enemy) and re-roll to wound(chaplain).. They have 3+ power armor, invun. save since the stormshield AND feel no pain.. They have scary amounts of attacks and have melta guns and power weapons in form of the librarian and chaplain, and a force weapon...

 

Your information is not correct, I am afraid. Only Death Company units benefit from the re-rolls to wound caused by the Chaplains Litanies of Blood, non-DC only get re-rolls to hit when they charge.

 

 

On topic:

 

I think that HG are a quite nice unit, and can be very effective. This of course depends on the load-out and on the rest of your army, it is all about synergy, you know.

 

The Banner is expensive, but also effective, especially with a Libby that has S10. I´d go with a Thunderhammer/SS guy, Powerweapon, Blood Champ, Company Banner(my SG has the Chapter Banner) and MG maybe.

 

 

Snorri

[SamaNagol]

Oh, if you have a Storm shield, a thunder hammer and a meltagun in a squad, always put the Thunder Hammer and Meltagun on one model, and the Storm Shield on a model with no special weapon. Why would you be allocating Power Weapon wounds onto a model with a very expensive Thunder Hammer when there is a Red Chalice in the unit to give you FnP against mundane attacks?

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

The honour guard that i run now in the last 3 games is one that works very well for me. 2 Meltaguns, Claw, Fist, 4 SS and with a Reclusiarch attached. One the charge they have 3 FC'ing Claw attacks, 10 regular FC attacks, 3 Str. 9 fist attacks and 5 PW attacks, all re-rolling to hit and wound. 305pts of death

[Redfinger]

I really like to play my HG and VV off each other, my "theme" for them is not kill, kill, kill, rather it is survivability. I used to equip my HG with 4 meltas, but I found it was a bit over kill and left them somewhat lacking in CC. So now it is 3ss 1pwr wpn, and 2 melta, it was a little more expensive, but they have beter survivability, and it gives all of my VV & HG inv saves allowing them to live longer and tar pit units better so my other marines can get in place for objectve holding.

 

Bottom line, decide what roll you want them to play, then equip accordingly, remember, killing a unit the same turn you assault it is not always a good thing....

 

 

Ashton

[igotsmeakabob!!]

It seems like buying Stormshields for the whole squad is really... not worth it. You're making a base-115pt squad 195pts without even giving them weapons.

 

My honour guard was Champion, fist, two SS's and a banner. That's 230pts plus a razorback or jump pacjs, and I'm not sure it's worth it.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

It doesnt seem like its worth it on paper but in practice in my last 3 games they have been worht every penny

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the BoLS build but I would drop the two meltaguns for lightning claws and drop the Chaplain. This gets the points down a bit and the HG with the Libby is more Killy. Plus they can all ride in a SR.

[tahrikmili]

I have one with a fist, a power weapon, a meltagun and a flamer, in a razorback. I run a Librarian with them. They are a very good all around troubleshooting unit that can react to a very wide range of threats.

[SamaNagol]

your honour guard would definitely be overpowered, because it is illegal. Chaplains only confer re-rolls to wound to Death Company

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Snorri has already mentioned that prior.

 

0b :)

[shatter]

HG

lc mg ss

pf mg ss

lc ss

lc ss banner

novitiate

jp

360

 

vs

ELITEx2

TDA priest

3 LC assault termies

3 TH+SS

340

 

vs

 

TROOP

lemartes

3DC PW,

1DC PF

jp

 

360

 

vs

ELITE + TROOP

sp combi melta + lc jp

assault squad

pf ss sgt

2 mg chainsword

7 bp chainsword

jp

360

 

discuss

[Volchek]

I equip my HG like this:

 

Jumppacks

Novitiate

Infernus Pistol + PW x2

Melta Gun x2

 

I "attach" this unit to Mephiston or hold them in reserve until Meph will be in EAT YOUR FACE range and then drop them to lend even more EAT YOUR FACE power to Meph. Or I drop this unit with Dante. Punch packing HG with Hit-n-Run is really nice.

 

The only thing I might do differently in the future is to add an Epistolary Librarian to the HG sqd for Unleash Rage and Might of Heroes.

 

If I don't run an HG squad I use a jumppack VanVet sqd with PW x2 & Sgt with a PF.

 

And I always save points for putting a Sang Priest with every standard RAS in my force. ALWAYS. Up to the maximum of 3 per army, of course.

[Brother Nathan]

You can take 9 but im sure you already knew that....

[igotsmeakabob!!]

ELITEx2

TDA priest

3 LC assault termies

3 TH+SS

340

 

vs

 

TROOP

lemartes

3DC PW,

1DC PF

jp

 

360

I think that these two can be tossed out right away.

The Terminators aren't too fantastic without a transport. Thing can just run away from them.

Taking Death Co. with jump packs now is just silly. You're almost doubling their base cost. Give them a Reclusiarch or Chaplain and put them in a transport. If you really want Lemartes then stick him with them in a Stormraven.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

@ Shatter: Your HG loadout is illegal as you can only take 2 pieces of equipment er guy incl. SS's. The vanilla marines can take SS + 2 weapons, but we cannot.

[shatter]

Quite correct. Went silly with juggling bits for unique load-out and added too many bits while 'thinking' *cough* about SS being standard. (sigh) Nevertheless, comparison 'theory' doesnt change much.

 

Let me correct that.

 

HG

lc mg

pf mg

lc ss

lc ss banner

novitiate

jp

320

 

vs

ELITEx2

TDA priest

2 LC assault termies

3 TH+SS

300

 

vs

 

TROOP

lemartes

2DC PW,

1DC PF

jp

 

310

 

vs

ELITE + TROOP

sp lc jp

assault squad

pf ss sgt

2 mg chainsword

7 bp chainsword

jp

325

 

Accepting a couple of things first, head to head comparison is often a little stupid... all these units can DS. None can assault after DS.

 

The termies (sans libby) can fit in a SR... the HG can only fit in a SR. The termies could also fit in LRs. HG cannot. The termies get (with a libby) 2 ICs to manipulate combat matching with. Without, they get 1 more than the HG does. The termies all have inv saves. No instanta gibs. Slower? Yep. No shoot phase (except via attached libby), so they may as well run. *shrug* 1 extra wound over HG. Overall, I'd say they're quite similar to the HG except for speed of course, but an attached libby does get to have a power other than SoS such as Lance or BBoil or SSoul or sumfink. *shrug*

 

Some things most peeps forget about regarding Lemartes is he's not an IC and he's I6. Head to head, with 90+% of MEQ models, he's going first. He also gives (charge) hits AND wound rerolls allowing an attached libby.. which was an important part of the HG build at the thread start.. to have (BBoil/lance+)MoH instead of the near default URage and give lemmie more attacks. If he was already wounded, he could, with a good MoH roll generate 10/9 WS5, S6/5, I7/6 PW attacks (with hit and wound rerolls on fcharge). This could kill the HG unit even if it gets the charge. Any survivors may not generate enough wounds to get at him as he's not an IC allowing him to win the combat later anyway. The two units are rather similar imo.

To argue about transports and their cost versus (above tooled) jp HG and jp DC+Lemmie when under 7 models is stupid. Both require a stormraven.

 

The assault squad

No transport except via combat squadding. Over 2x the wounds of the HG. Vanilla CC attacks on the charge could do a number on the HG with wound wrap-around and kill SS and/or banner models. Followed by the IC priest PW attacks and should the lc models all be dead, this could mean the HG is buggered. In short, who charges gets the big advantage and could leave a near useless unit left or eliminate it entirely. While the HG unit will do a lot better on the charge as they'll get to control their chance to pop the priest and/or libby, the Assault squad can manipulate the HG via IC sacrifice and... can score.

 

 

 

HG sans jp is a very different kettle of fish as it's very hard making similar units to compare it to that have the same special rules while costing similar points.

 

 

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding... which unit(s) do people prefer? Obvious. HG and Assault. It's only weirdos like me that use termies and lemmie company.

[bloodancient]

I set my HG to double purpose 4 meltas and 4 LC they are alot of fun running them into termies or other 2+ units you shoot them first and LC them to death it's alot of invul saves to make. especially with the chap to re roll hits.

[SamaNagol]

How about

 

Sanguinary Guard - Power Fist + Chapter Banner

Sanguinary Priest- JP + PW

 

That's around 320ish

[lorider2]

2 Meltaguns, Claw, Fist, 4 SS and with a Reclusiarch attached.

 

Random question - I saw a few people posted having a MG and SS combo. As you need to replace the bolt pistol and chainsword to do this, would such a model technically not be able to attack in CC?