Dark eldar

[soots]

So we all know that dark eldar are coming out in the first week of november

how would you end their lifes quickly and painfully?

 

i glanced at the codex(LGS has a coopy, so after work i try and swing by to take a peak)

from what i remember, a magority of the codex has a 5+ save, their vehicles are weak:armour values of a landspeeder. they are imo the fastest army out their/coming out. fleet...turboboost 36"

i5+ etc

the only thing that im worried about is thier lances

they strike first in cc...and could hurt us

 

what i think would help us is

a) shoot them, bolters, pistols, assault cannon

:) FNP!!!!

c) Mephiston??

d) blood talons

 

 

thats what i have at the moment

[Erasmus of Baal]

I think that we have two big advantages on them: speed and durability.

 

Dark Eldar are, and they have always been, a fast-moving army capable of hitting very hard and very quickly. I believe that it would be difficult for many armies besides the Blood Angels to engage them in this, but we are filled with Fast vehicles, the Stormraven, Jump Pack troops, and a variety of less special options that allow us to strike quickly and mightily. The "Internet" melta-heavy lists are going to suffer at the hands of the Dark Eldar, but we can bring Melta to bear as quickly as bolter and chainsword and slaughter them before they can acquire any Pain tokens that the army does not start with. Even should they start with such as Feel No Pain and Furious Charge, we can move bring the exact same and saturate their units with enough pain that they WILL die, no questions asked. Baal Predators, Land Raider Crusaders, Stormravens with Hurricane Bolters, "Rifleman" Dreadnoughts, Furioso Dreadnoughts with Blood Claws, Death Company with few or no special weapons and a Chaplain/Reclusiarch, the list goes on and on of units that we have that are perfectly capable of dealing with these upstart Xenos. They will be no challenge to destroy. Even the Sanguinary Guard's Angelus Boltguns will be powerful against them, as these guns blaze for a total (if one has no pistol weapons) of 10 S4 shots that ignore their 4+ or worse armor saves--before close-combat even begins! Few armies, I believe, can parallel the wide array of tools that we, the scions of Sanguinius, have shich can destroy these mongrels with ease.

 

However, this destruction assumes that they do not get the charge, that they are not in cover, and a few other, similar problems. Again, this is no matter! I am fully aware that while 3+ Armor Saves have become so normal that they are disregarded, they are not to be ignored. Our T4, 3+Sv standard troops can easily weather the Dark Eldar's storms, and this is only bolstered by the Sanguinary Priests, who grant special rules that the Dark Eldar must wipe out units to obtain. Once they have finished dancing around us and denting our armor, our backlash will cut them down like wheat before the scythe.

 

(It's embellished considerably, sure, but it represents the only way I am able to see this coming out: our favor.)

[Myxx]

Hit them at range early on would be my first thought. Weaken them before CC. The Baal almost seems tailor-made for fighting the new DE. Fast and out-flank against weak armor.

[Redfinger]

..... Land Raider Crusaders...the list goes on and on of units that we have that are perfectly capable of dealing with these upstart Xenos.

 

 

While I agree with some of what you are saying, I am not sure if I am sold on the idea of the LRC being effective against DE, the lance weapons will hurt it, and it is slow. Sure it can deep strike but the chance of it not coming in when I need it is not a risk I want to take for the points needed to field it. Baals, TLAC dreads and the Ass/Back spam I think will fair well. I even think that a jump list amy do well, although I agree that the melta heavy version of those lists will not be quite as effective.

 

Ashton

[SamaNagol]

Assault Cannons on AV11 vehicles.

 

3+ saves with FnP rolls.

 

Dark Eldar do not worry me one bit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here are my thoughts on how to play versus DE:

 

As noted they are very fast. They typically use the Divide and Conquer strategy to win. So you need to circle the wagons to offset this which is not that great for jump heavy armies. It will be interesting to see what will be the more popular builds for DE. They have some great specialized assault units such as Incubi (which can fleet now) plus I think Harlequins might make a comeback (FNP via pain token). DE have poison weapons for shooting which I dont think is that big of an advantage versus Marines in general. Our armies are inherently fast so that helps us but they are faster so you have to respect that aspect. End of the day they are xenos so we need to keep doing what we do best.

 

0b

[Zeller]

How do we have speed as an advantage against the DE? They're the fastest army in the game.

 

3 devestator squads. 12 missile launchers. 6 combat squads.

 

3 rifleman dreads.

 

Also their guys get better with each squad they devour right? Deny them squads. Keep all two troop choices in reserve and fill your army with nothing but vehicle squadrons and vehicles. Two troop choices no matter the size of the game! Bwahahaha! Double edged, I know.

[Nemisor]

furioso dreads in pods with frag cannons and heavy flamers. their tanks dont get a cover save from that and troops will be deep fried

[Erasmus of Baal]

..... Land Raider Crusaders...the list goes on and on of units that we have that are perfectly capable of dealing with these upstart Xenos.

 

 

While I agree with some of what you are saying, I am not sure if I am sold on the idea of the LRC being effective against DE, the lance weapons will hurt it, and it is slow. Sure it can deep strike but the chance of it not coming in when I need it is not a risk I want to take for the points needed to field it. Baals, TLAC dreads and the Ass/Back spam I think will fair well. I even think that a jump list amy do well, although I agree that the melta heavy version of those lists will not be quite as effective.

 

Ashton

 

Well, in that particular case, I was thinking about the crazy shot output of the thing--DE mostly need to get close to maximise damage so range isn't a particular issue, so 2 Hurricane Bolters and a TL Asscan will certainly put a dent in any 4+ or worse squad.

[soots]

as a viable hq choice

meph...strikes same time as an archaon, unless meph is in range of a priest

he instant deaths them without sword and force weapon

 

but i might try out sanguinor, mainly for his bonus effect

 

dakka baal preds or even flamer baals would be best

id take some ravens dakka'd out, i might also take a redeemer

ive had really good luck with my redeemer ( 9 assault marines, chaplain, dreadnought, taken out by the flamestorms)

[SamaNagol]

Archon can get higher I than Meph and causes Instant Death with wargear. And he has a 2++ save

[biglou666]

Ageis: furioso dreads in pods with frag cannons and heavy flamers. their tanks dont get a cover save from that and troops will be deep fried

 

^^^ one of my personal favourites! ^_^

[30-Death-Company+Astorath]

I would take a dev squad and tac marines no assault marines, 2 dredehs for the flank defence, 2 baals for the flank attack, mephy and a squad of maybe 10-15 DCs with lemmeh with jump packs for when the xenos do get too close.....

 

In other words try play in a defensive way...??

[Lone Scout]

I wouldn't rely on Meph, DE can pull him out of his squad (fly over him and not engage in combat) and then shoot him (in the same turn) as he is out on his own.

High rate of fire will be the key (heavy bolters,assault cannons) and while most of the army has poor armour saves they get great inv saves for moving fast..wyches have a 4+inv save in combat....i beleive <_< I think terminators will come into there own now.

With Urian a unit can start the game with 3 pain tokens , get to reroll seige the inititive with a +1 to the roll...which could see you in combat from the get go.

Flamers and heavy bolters for the win.

[vahouth]

I wouldn't rely on Meph, DE can pull him out of his squad (fly over him and not engage in combat) and then shoot him (in the same turn) as he is out on his own.

 

? <_<

What exactly do you mean?

Meph is on his own.

 

With Urian a unit can start the game with 3 pain tokens , get to reroll seige the inititive with a +1 to the roll...which could see you in combat from the get go.

Flamers and heavy bolters for the win.

 

I believe that only Wracks and Grotesques can use his tokens.

Also, where did you find that Urien can reroll for seize the initiative?

Other than Asdrubal Vect who can roll for the initiative on a 4+, I can't see how anyone can reroll the result...

[R0N1N]

I have to say that personally I'm keen to get into battle with the new space elves...

 

Another thing that BA have that will put some hurt without a lot of effort is our Librarians... Fear of Darkness will send the DE packing just as easy as any other army. And most squads have LD8 & LD9 so they'll run pretty easily, even if there is an LD10 IC they'll have to tread carefully when a Libby with Fear is near... ^_^ For those squads with 3 tokens we just need to get at least 1 IC to leave the squad and they wont have 3 tokens for Fearless anymore... They will be hard pressed to have more that 2 squads packing 3 tokens anyway, so the reast is susceptible to FEAR prety easily in my oppinion.

 

I've had some good games with my Libby's and would love to see the DE players face when they fleet, move towards me turn 1, I pop their transport and fear them back chasing them off the board. <_<

 

Come on DE.... bring it!

[General Ravensong]

Something I pointed out at my local GW when we first got to crack open the book (and I'm sure others have saw this play out in their heads as well). The Hellions have a special weapon (stun claw iirc) that lets them effectively kidnap independent characters during there hit and run, in which the IC gets dragged along with them the full distance and put immediately into full base to base contact (completely surrounded) and counts as having been charged in the next close combat phase. Now, I'm not saying that this is always going to be a game breaker, but imagine this scenario: It's your assault phase and your assault squad and priest are in combat with hellions. End of combat, they hit and run 3d6 inches away, average rolls will drag your priest 10-11 inches in whatever direction the hellions feel like going. You have a balled up assault squad (without feel no pain) left out in the open against a traditionally shooty army that doesn't really care what your toughness is, and an unsupported IC in combat with a higher initiative squad... ( ._.) Oh dear.

They have a special character Baron Someschmuck Greengoblin that makes them all troop choices. This army seems pretty intent on the whole divide and conquer thing, and this special rule can ruin you in a kill point game, and unless the IC is someone like Seth or Canis, there's a good chance that they're going to take full advantage of this rule. Lillith is another threat we'll have to deal with as she'll have 10 power weapon attacks a round against us... and apparently... she has a shardnet woven into her hair (really GW? A Dark Elf with a weave?) which will deny anyone in base to base with her 1 attack each (to a minimum of one), vehicles have a whole slew of upgrades to tailor them for anything from vehicle hunting, infantry hunting, and even skulking around table corners.

The only real gripe I have about this army is that it pretty much rolls the nurgle biker army I was starting, but to be honest as mean and nasty as everything gets, it's still all t3 5+ across the board, and while their flying coconuts might be difficult to crack open the insides are quite fleshy and squishy... just... don't let the lady with the jacked up weave touch you. As many cool new toys the DE are getting it's still going to be a very unforgivingly "smart" army, with even the way you position certain models in your unit being a huge deal. I expect to see deathstar squads of the elite witches being positioned with Lilith and two shardnets leading the unit into combat, getting them into btb with as many models as possible... after the squad's shot to hell and then turbo-boosted over by jetbikes. There's going to be a lot of players jumping onto the DE bandwagon, but I don't think there's going to be a lot of people sticking with them for long.

[Morollan]

I wouldn't rely on Meph, DE can pull him out of his squad (fly over him and not engage in combat) and then shoot him (in the same turn) as he is out on his own.

 

I assume you mean the Stunclaws. AFAIK, they only work on ICs attached to units so Mephiston would be safe from them.

[vahouth]

I expect to see deathstar squads of the elite witches being positioned with Lilith and two shardnets leading the unit into combat, getting them into btb with as many models as possible.

 

Now imagine that and many others, coming out of a webway portal next to you for the assault!

Ouch!

Thank the Emperor it can be used only in the shooting phase...

[SnorriSnorrison]

What about an all-deepstrike army?

 

Two assault squads with Meltaguns and flamers, along with a PF. To support them, a Tactical squad in a pod with Melta and combi flamer. Drop the pod, combat squad, melta the vehicle and flame and bolter the passengers.

 

With your army deepstriking, the opponent will find it difficult to be in close combat on turn one, also it offers you a better chance of melting those raiders. Furiosos with Frag cannons are also very nice for that.

 

Add two outflanking dakka Baals, so they won't get hit by lances before they can even fire. As they are coming from the flanks, the Dark Eldar player needs to stay away from them or he risks to lose his mobility to assault cannons and heavy bolters.

 

I can imagine that Vanguard Veterans are a good way of hunting down those units that are in the open after your assault and tactical squads have exploded their transports.

 

Well, this is a best-case scenario of course. Like the Dark Eldar, this type of army relies on a heavy strike in one turn to stun the opponent completely and remove his greatest advantage.

 

 

What do you think about this, guys? ;)

 

 

 

Snorri

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Just a quick question, do Dark Eldar also get the rule to ignore rending results on their vehicles that Eldar have?

 

Because if they do, TLAC suddenly gets a whole lot less interesting against them..

[vahouth]

Just a quick question, do Dark Eldar also get the rule to ignore rending results on their vehicles that Eldar have?

 

Because if they do, TLAC suddenly gets a whole lot less interesting against them..

 

I don't think they do, but come on... AV 11 & 10 all around isn't really that hard. ;)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Just a quick question, do Dark Eldar also get the rule to ignore rending results on their vehicles that Eldar have?

 

Because if they do, TLAC suddenly gets a whole lot less interesting against them..

 

I don't think they do, but come on... AV 11 & 10 all around isn't really that hard. ;)

 

Still, if they flat out and you need a 6+ to hit.. still not nice ;-) They make up their flimsyness with speed and my guess is they will be hard to shoot out of those transports.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have added flamers to my list in anticipation.

 

0b :)

[Morticon]

Was waiting for this thread.

 

 

Remember to keep it related to our tactics and not DE rules please.