Dark eldar

[CainTheHunter]

Just a quick question, do Dark Eldar also get the rule to ignore rending results on their vehicles that Eldar have?

 

Because if they do, TLAC suddenly gets a whole lot less interesting against them..

 

No, they get 5++ save if they buy an inexpensive upgrade.

[Dingareth]

I'm not changing my list at all. They're T3 with mostly 4 or 5 for saves. They have armor value 10 or 11 tanks. Oh no, if only there were high strength AP 4 weapons we could choose from, preferably with multiple shots!

 

Oh wait... My army has 6 TL Assault Cannons, 4 TL Autocannons, and 4 more Heavy Bolters just for backup. Figure Dark Eldar can afford 5-6 Raiders and a few Ravagers at 2,000 points and it looks like the majority of those will be dropping the first turn.

[Israfel]

With their transports being paper thin it will come down on what goes on during the first turn. Minimizing our casulties while limiting their mobility will be very important, thus we should mostly consider an all reserve game (especially for the mechanized elements) if the DE player is going first. Despite their close combat prowess and high I they have very limited staying power, thus over bearing them with 2 squads at a time should do the trick in C/C. Also our high velocity guns will be very helpful to thin their ranks before the inevitable C/C. They simply hate AC's and we have plenty of them with the added bonus of being fast. Also apart from Talos and such they have almost nothing that could even scratch our Dreadnoughts in C/C, hence we want those beasts in combat and in a defensive role.

 

I'm very much looking forward to playing against the deldar as the rules that I see seem big fun to play against, they will keep us on the edge which is good change.

[Brother Weasel]

the problems we will have will depend on their builds. they can load up a bunch of CC units into raiders, and move far and fast and get into combat rather fast, usualy at a higher init, so sitting in cover will be a must, though they can get grenades for that.

 

if they put warriors into raiders, they have rapid fire poisoned weapons that can cause loads of damage, and meph is a dead man at that point:)

 

web way portals could be dropped half way across the table on turn one, letting talos jump out and get into the mix that much faster...

 

cover, and trying to not get hit in the first turn will be imperitive. if they know you are bringing tanks, they can load up on anti tank pretty easy...

 

mostly they have lousy saves, so if we can stay away for one turn, they die

 

i donnt think dro-p armies will work as well either, comne in peacemeal, and they can get to you faster...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I never take a good DE player lightly.

 

0b :P

[bulley]

I dont think Dark Eldar will mess with the meta of my local group.

 

The 2 guys i know picking them up (or just dusting off his old army), one of which is dire, and the oldschool guy is quite full of himself.

 

The only concern I have is my 500 point deathstar unit of Assault Terms w/ LRC - which won't be as effective vs Dark Eldar.

 

However my x4 Razor x1 Baal (@ 1500) is perfectly equiped to deal with them, a good mix of weapons (x2 meltas x1 flamers, and plenty of mix from the tanks themselves). I'd almost certainly now look to add instead of the x1 LRC get x1 Baal and then between the remaining points add another Baal and maybe a single dread w/drop pod, or maybe rather than drop pod dread, x2 or x3 speeders w/ Melta/Flamer.

 

x5 Terms - 210

x1 LRC - 240

 

= 460

 

x2 Baals (390)

x2 Speeders = 100

 

490

 

So I'd need to find 30 points some where in my army - maybe via dropping one of the baals side sponsons in favour of running a flamestorm only (scouting up behind the other two).

 

For me I was thinking of adding the above to take me from 1500 to 2000 any way.

[skawolf]

If the disitigrators are anything like in the old book, I belive our success will lie with popping the ravagers armed with them as priority number one.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I never take a good DE player lightly.

How about: "never take a good player lightly"? Might be a bit better, methinks. :)

 

More on-topic--do the Dark Eldar get to assault on the turn that they emerge from the Webway Portals? If not, that could be greatly to our advantage, especially if a squad with jump packs and a few flamers is being used.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would think razorspam is one army that could be in for quite a rude awakening. Lance heavy armies will eat AV11 alive then your 5 man squads will get picked off. The new DE lists I have seen so far can outshoot razorspam and are faster.

 

0b :)

[River Black]

Do you think bike heavy lists will suffer. I have been running a BA list with two bikes squads and at least one priest on a bike as kind of a backbone to the army. I know the poison will sting as it will ignore their T5. (Does their poison wound on a 2+ or 4+?)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

When I ran 13th Company my Storm Claw bikers were ace in close combat because of T5 but with pain tokens DE will be stronger now.

 

0b :)

[Erasmus of Baal]

Do you think bike heavy lists will suffer. I have been running a BA list with two bikes squads and at least one priest on a bike as kind of a backbone to the army. I know the poison will sting as it will ignore their T5. (Does their poison wound on a 2+ or 4+?)

 

I would think you'll suffer some, but I think a bike-focused list is still viable. All the shooty goodness of twin-linked bolters can be brought to bear all the more quickly, and massed fire is pretty clearly a good way to knock this army down. (I haven't had a chance to play them but haven't seen anything suggesting that there's a better way to combat these guys.) Also, if you put the bikes in their face, they'll preobably have to assault those immediately, letting you bring Assault marines to bear with a charge.

[Brother Weasel]

More on-topic--do the Dark Eldar get to assault on the turn that they emerge from the Webway Portals? If not, that could be greatly to our advantage, especially if a squad with jump packs and a few flamers is being used.

 

it acts as a table edge, so yes. they can't bring tanks through, but troops, MC can

 

most of thier poison wounds on 4+ (there is some that is 2+)

[TheMouth]

hate to say it but i think space wolves might be better at taking them on then us....though for my list...after reading about the IC snatcher...I am working on a NO IC list. Mephiston, DC Tycho, LeMartes, and for priests...honour guard...and who knows what else but man that would be fun to watch the DE player go...wat? No ICs? H...how?

[Rybnick]

If the disitigrators are anything like in the old book, I belive our success will lie with popping the ravagers armed with them as priority number one.

 

Disintegrators are somewhat changed from the previous codex. In the old book they were essentially plasma cannons but in the new book I believe they are changed to a S5 AP2 Heavy 3 gun, so still very much bad news for power armor. I'd say it's a safe bet that the Ravagers will be pretty high on the threat-o-meter if you run a jump pack heavy list, just as they were likely high on your target list before. The good news is AV11 is nothing to get through for most anyone, even if they pony up the points for the 5++ flickerfield.

[Brother Weasel]

hate to say it but i think space wolves might be better at taking them on then us....though for my list...after reading about the IC snatcher...I am working on a NO IC list. Mephiston, DC Tycho, LeMartes, and for priests...honour guard...and who knows what else but man that would be fun to watch the DE player go...wat? No ICs? H...how?

 

sadly it probably won't effect most DE players and even make it a little better for them, not they can shoot your HQ with no problem... the Hellion hook is a nice trick, but hardly something to base thier army on.

 

i'd be more worried about them feilding vect, and seizing the initiative on a 4+ and going first...

[Crynn]

the problems we will have will depend on their builds. they can load up a bunch of CC units into raiders, and move far and fast and get into combat rather fast, usualy at a higher init, so sitting in cover will be a must, though they can get grenades for that.

 

if they put warriors into raiders, they have rapid fire poisoned weapons that can cause loads of damage, and meph is a dead man at that point:)

 

web way portals could be dropped half way across the table on turn one, letting talos jump out and get into the mix that much faster...

 

cover, and trying to not get hit in the first turn will be imperitive. if they know you are bringing tanks, they can load up on anti tank pretty easy...

 

mostly they have lousy saves, so if we can stay away for one turn, they die

 

i donnt think dro-p armies will work as well either, comne in peacemeal, and they can get to you faster...

 

Did you fail math? If they want to shoot Meph with all their squads with poisened weapons let them if they can see him or f your stupid enough to not have him in FnP bubble its your own fault.

 

DE warrior 66% chance to 33% to wound 5.5% to wound after armor save and then to 2.75 with FnP? So it will take them 182 shots to kill meph 91 if he is not withing FnP range which would be the generals own fault. I don't think thats a very effective way of killing him.

 

On a side note and back to the main topic, I wonder how our Mech will last against the DE both their transports and vehicles seem flimsy against our firepower and vice versa with out vehicles. Will be interesting.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[TheMouth]

hate to say it but i think space wolves might be better at taking them on then us....though for my list...after reading about the IC snatcher...I am working on a NO IC list. Mephiston, DC Tycho, LeMartes, and for priests...honour guard...and who knows what else but man that would be fun to watch the DE player go...wat? No ICs? H...how?

 

sadly it probably won't effect most DE players and even make it a little better for them, not they can shoot your HQ with no problem... the Hellion hook is a nice trick, but hardly something to base thier army on.

 

i'd be more worried about them feilding vect, and seizing the initiative on a 4+ and going first...

 

 

I could see alot of armies using thy "hook" as a step in their armies. I mean why wouldnt you take that to shut down the "hero"hammer part of 40k? Against Space wolves, you most certainly would take it to shut down their rune priests, same with BA and our Psykers or any other IC.

[Brother Weasel]

fail at math, no, i just don't really do it, not a mathhammer fan (no problem with other people doing it, but i'd rather paint a mini then do math, if that's ok with you, i just dont' sit around calculate probablilites for evertything.)

 

add in the tl ability that the raider can have, add in the raiders weapons, add in any specials that the squad can get... let me know what those numbers are...

 

in no way did i say it was the best way to kill him... still wound't want to run him headlong into a raider squad, he's best going after somethign bigger.

[Crynn]

fail at math, no, i just don't really do it, not a mathhammer fan (no problem with other people doing it, but i'd rather paint a mini then do math, if that's ok with you, i just dont' sit around calculate probablilites for evertything.)

 

add in the tl ability that the raider can have, add in the raiders weapons, add in any specials that the squad can get... let me know what those numbers are...

 

in no way did i say it was the best way to kill him... still wound't want to run him headlong into a raider squad, he's best going after somethign bigger.

 

 

True true and point taken. Hehe

 

But I do my amth while I paint its very basic and takes litterally 20 secs and is very usefull in game. Raiders and all that will cause probs but poisened weapons shouldnt so iw as refering to that particular statement directly. I like to paint my minis put them on the table and be the best general I can, and unforunately that involves a bit of math.

[Oloff Hammeraxe]

I'm thinking I'm going to keep using my Tactical Squad, now possibly with that Heavy Bolter guy I bought a bit ago but rarely use. I can see my Land Speeder Typhoon still being awesome, so I'm not all that worried about the Dark Eldar's presence drastically messing up my lists. Though it might be real fun to make a 4x flamer JP'd Honour Guard squad!

[Brother Weasel]

fail at math, no, i just don't really do it, not a mathhammer fan (no problem with other people doing it, but i'd rather paint a mini then do math, if that's ok with you, i just dont' sit around calculate probablilites for evertything.)

 

add in the tl ability that the raider can have, add in the raiders weapons, add in any specials that the squad can get... let me know what those numbers are...

 

in no way did i say it was the best way to kill him... still wound't want to run him headlong into a raider squad, he's best going after somethign bigger.

 

 

True true and point taken. Hehe

 

But I do my amth while I paint its very basic and takes litterally 20 secs and is very usefull in game. Raiders and all that will cause probs but poisened weapons shouldnt so iw as refering to that particular statement directly. I like to paint my minis put them on the table and be the best general I can, and unforunately that involves a bit of math.

 

i just let people like you do the math for me, easier. poisoned weapons will wound on a 4+, vs his high t it's usefull:) (and i did say warriors in a raider). I am interested in the math for rerolling with the splinter rack. I paint my minis to paint my minis and play the game to play the game:) just trying to have fun, and math isnt' fun:)

 

I could see alot of armies using thy "hook" as a step in their armies. I mean why wouldnt you take that to shut down the "hero"hammer part of 40k? Against Space wolves, you most certainly would take it to shut down their rune priests, same with BA and our Psykers or any other IC.

 

i wouldn't base an army on something one guy has, to easy to stop it. Useful? yes, it wold be a great thing to do, but i wouldn't build a list without IC just to avoid the hook... better to build a unit with the IC to kill the hook:) i just don't see it as being something that will happen reliably enough to base a game on.. you think a BA with a Psyker will just let the hellions assult them and take out thier IC? would you? no, if you saw the hook on the mini or read his list you'de lay some firepower on that squad as a threat to your IC (if your IC is an important part of your game, i might let them take it as bait, but that's another story) again, it's hella usefull, but unless they are building an all hellion list with lots of them, i dont' htink it's a big enough threat to remove all the IC out of the army for:)

[Crynn]

Lol my list has no IC's Mephs my HQ and my sangpriests are part of honor guards. Wasted points. I think it wont make all comers lists. Armies like nids and daemons rarely have IC's in them making that a redundant piece of wargear in some games.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Brother Weasel]

Lol my list has no IC's Mephs my HQ and my sangpriests are part of honor guards. Wasted points. I think it wont make all comers lists. Armies like nids and daemons rarely have IC's in them making that a redundant piece of wargear in some games.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

 

indeed. I'm not saying to not have a no IC list, just that if you do i wouldn't worry about it:) Personaly i run so many diffrent lists it doens't matter to me, just whateve i feel like loading up into my army box:)

 

basicaly it's a fun toy, but it won't be a game changer. there are times it will do things that will help a lot and other times it will be wasted wargear, just like everythign else:)

[TheMouth]

a good example of why not to take an IC is in the example listed...shooting at the unit with the hook. Why waste my firepower on a unit like that when there are bigger threats to my army.