Dark eldar

[Sabadin]

vects wife who isn't effected by psy nor any unit she joins(though it's unreliable)

 

Granted unless she's T4+ that makes little difference to Meph as a S6 power weapon is still causing ID anyway.

[I am Legion]

I never played against DE alot in the past, the few times that I did, I got my butt whooped GOOD!!! And believe it or not always with BAs. I eventually figured it out though. Speed is one thing. They got it. People are planning on changing alot of their lists to deal with this new codex, which is fine, makes the game fun. But BA are solid. I've always found that you have to sit back and shoot these guys. Treat them with a horde strategy and you should be fine. I got a list I've fine tuned for 1750, and it does have a sanguinor in it. I'll be curious to see how well they do in combat when 10xRAS with Priest, and the sanguinor come along into their lines. I also happen to have 3xBaal Preds and a Vindicator, which luckily can move and fire, albiet slowly. But 30 shots from 3 baal preds a turn WILL make minced meat out of their troops who we then clean up. Oh and a Furioso will also have a good time in their lines unless they outrun him ^_^

[Erasmus of Baal]

vects wife who isn't effected by psy nor any unit she joins(though it's unreliable)

 

Granted unless she's T4+ that makes little difference to Meph as a S6 power weapon is still causing ID anyway.

It also helps that Mephiston doesn't have any psychic powers that actually affect the enemy! He has:

1) The Sanguine Sword, which makes Mephiston's close-combat attacks S10,

2) Unleash Rage, which gives Mephiston Preferred Enemy,

3) Wings of Sanguinius, which makes Mephiston Jump Infantry, and

4) Transfixing Gaze, which isn't a psychic power!

 

She does block his Force Weapon, but really, Mephiston doesn't mind that girl. He can take her out, no problems at all. (Except perhaps the squad she's with, but that's not what was being discussed here.)

[synack]

Vect is the only guy thats really going to give Mephiston a headache. He's striking before Mephiston, has 6 attacks on the charge, hitting him 3s with a re-roll and wounding on 3s and then has his 2++ save.

 

But even so, Vect probably isn't going to kill Mephiston in 1 round, but if Mephiston doesn't kill him on strike back, next round he's dead.

 

Of course, this is all if we looking at units in a vacume.

 

Mephistons downfall is the ability to easily single him out in shooting and that he'll never be in a squad. Which means that if the DE player has the charge and is smart he'll only ever charge mephiston and not multi charge. So when you're looking at Vect hitting mephitson, it's not going to be just Vect, you're probably looking at Vect + a squad of wyches or incubi. Plus if Vect is charging, he's probably going to take a wound or two from mephiston in the shooting phase. Also, what happens if vect + squad has furios charge? wyches will strike at the same time as mephiston. Incubi will be S5 and wound on a 5 rather than a 6.

 

If Mephiston gets the charge and gets furious charge, then he stirkes the same time as Vect, which really isn't going to help him. If he has squad charging in with him at best, they're striking at the same time as what ever is with Vect. So you've got to assume, if you charge Mephiston + squad into Vect + squad, your essentially doing a unit swap. Both sides get to hit and both sides will kill each other.

 

I hate looking at units in a vacume, it shouldn't be done, because the scenario where A vs B ever comes up on the board is very low, there are always other elements in play.

 

Simply saying "Mephiston will pwn DE cause they don't have a answer" is short sighted, because you really need to look how lists work together. DE isn't a marine codex and units don't work in a vacume, they work with one another and a DE army will require good list building with synergy in mind.

 

To beat DE, you're going to have to do it in the movement phase I think. Making sure you get cover or block LOS while still being able to fire on his key pieces. Judging distances to make sure you're out of that 12" + 2" disemark + d6" fleet + 6" charge range. Beast squads are going to give everyone a headache cause they are so hard to kill. Whats your answer for a unit that can move 12" forward in a transport, disembark 2-3" and then fire 3-4 S8 AP2 Lance shots 18" at your transports, only to have the transport itself fire 12 TL 4+ Poison shots at whatever was inside? DE will use misdirection and speed, they can easily re-deploy to a flank and crush from there. Hell, Lady Malys can even make you deploy in the wrong area on the table. They deploy one side, you deploy opposite, she then rolls a d3 and re-deploys that many units, leaving you with nothing to shoot and potentially sitting out in the open scratching your head.

 

To beat DE, you need to keep in mind that they need synergy. There will be a couple of key units that need to be negated or removed, after which you can go ahead and pick apart the army.

 

Oh and dual libby's with fear of darkness. Make them run off the board...

[Brother Weasel]

vects wife who isn't effected by psy nor any unit she joins(though it's unreliable)

 

Granted unless she's T4+ that makes little difference to Meph as a S6 power weapon is still causing ID anyway.

It also helps that Mephiston doesn't have any psychic powers that actually affect the enemy! He has:

1) The Sanguine Sword, which makes Mephiston's close-combat attacks S10,

2) Unleash Rage, which gives Mephiston Preferred Enemy,

3) Wings of Sanguinius, which makes Mephiston Jump Infantry, and

4) Transfixing Gaze, which isn't a psychic power!

 

She does block his Force Weapon, but really, Mephiston doesn't mind that girl. He can take her out, no problems at all. (Except perhaps the squad she's with, but that's not what was being discussed here.)

 

Yea, my comment wasn't that She could do anything, just that she had a psychic defense, that someone else was saying he didn't know of any the DE had...

 

killing Mephy wpn't be Hard to do, it never is if you know how, and have the units to do it. wytch squads with shardnets , agonizers to limit his attacks, an archon with a huskblade (power weapon with ID... no guarantee, but good chances.) shoot lots of dark lances and what not at him. or just stay away fro,m him, or bog him down... and of course hitting him with a combination of things, or just getting lucky with something like the crucible... will he be scary to the DE yes, he's scary to everyone at some point. but he's manageable if they can operate their units.

 

just my thoughts:)

[Erasmus of Baal]

Alright, friends, sorry it took me so long to run Mephiston vs. Husk Blade/Shadowfield Archon, but here are the results.

 

 

Given: Mephiston, Lord of Death in close-combat against Archon with Huskblade and Shadowfield

Assume: Mephiston charges Archon (accounting for Wings of Sanguinius power)

Assume: Mephiston passes all psychic tests without Perils of the Warp

Assume: ignore Combat Drugs

Assume: ignore Mephiston’s Transfixing Gaze

Assume: no other units/models involved

 

Mephiston and Archon both have I7 and therefore stirke simultaneously.

 

Archon hits on a 4+. 50% chance of success.

Archon wounds on a 6+. Running total of 9% chance of success.

Huskblade ignores Armor saves and causes Instant Death. Total chance of success is equal to 9% per hit.

 

Mephiston hits on a 4+. 50% chance of success.

Mephiston, because of Unleash Rage, re-rolls failed to-hit rolls. Running total of 75% chance of success.

Mephiston attacks with S10 because of Sanguine Sword for a 2+ to wound. Running total of 63% chance of success.

The Archon has a 2++ save. Running total of 11% chance of success.

Mephiston’s S10 will cause Instant Death to the Archon. Total chance of success is 11%.

 

Evaluation: The two of them are in roughly the same boat; neither one has a distinct chance of winning. Combat drugs or Pain Tokens might push things in the Archon’s favor, but Mephiston can also gain advantage from having other units around to either force the Archon to take so many saves that he fails or grant Mephiston Furious Charge.

[Brother Weasel]

if you are assuming mephiston charges you have to count in furious charge, but i wouldn't assume mephy will charge (his wings, vs the archon on an open topped transport.. ) so i'd run it both ways.. also he auto kills without s10:)

 

pain tokens would be tricky, he'd need 2 to matter (giving him furious charge) that would just bring his str to 4... looks liek a combat i wouldnt' want on either side.. :tu: thanks for the mathammer

[Erasmus of Baal]

if you are assuming mephiston charges you have to count in furious charge, but i wouldn't assume mephy will charge (his wings, vs the archon on an open topped transport.. ) so i'd run it both ways.. also he auto kills without s10:)

 

pain tokens would be tricky, he'd need 2 to matter (giving him furious charge) that would just bring his str to 4... looks liek a combat i wouldnt' want on either side.. :ph34r: thanks for the mathammer

 

I stated in the assumptions that no other units are involved--that includes transports. I didn't want to be mucking around with too many "what if"s. Also, Mephiston doesn't come with Furious Charge; I mentioned it in the ending as one way that a unit could boost him to some measure of advantage in the combat. The way that units work togwether is going to be critical in Blood Angels versus Dark Eldar battles, I believe.

 

As for the mathhammer, you're welcome.

[Brother Weasel]

you are right of course, brain is turning to pudding in this topic:)... pretend i said nothing, still don't think i'm gonna assult an Archin with shadowfield and huskblade with mephy:)

[Feuermann]

new DE wil be my 2nd army(1st are blood angels) and the archon Vs mephi is impossible except if we give a court to the archon. 2+ poisonous attacks. Remember that DE are not space marines. The best of dark eldar is your hability as general that gives you the victory, not the codex.

 

3 devastators with dark lance can destroy our vehicles easily supported by raider's lances. the rest of the DE army exist to kill our red guys

 

At least I'm going to rest from painting red =P

[vahouth]

Mephiston has I6, Archon has I7. Archon strikes first.

 

Sorry, but Mephiston's Initiative is 7.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Mephiston has I6, Archon has I7. Archon strikes first.

 

Sorry, but Mephiston's Initiative is 7.

How I missed that in the Codex, I really don't know. Thank you, though; it's been fixed.

[HERO]

Oh hi there folks.

Haven't posted in a while, but to add some feedback as a BA, SW and DE player, I'd say that BA will have no problem with DE.

 

BA have all the right tools to deal with them. Baal Preds are absolutely huge and killing DE. The amount of reliable, long range, Fast dakka is enough to maul vehicles and infantry alike. Our troops are very resilient to DE shooting compared to other MEQ.

 

To fight DE, a standard 3/3 setup will cause extreme problems for most of the DE lists out there. Once their army has their vehicles disabled, concentrated dakka fire and FC charging troops puts enough wounds on DE infantry to take them down easy.

 

And yes, Mephiston is still good, but so are mobile 2x Librarians with Unleash Rage + pick your flavor. We might also want to revisit Blood Lance hehe. Just make sure you single-out the Archon w/ Huskblade and be careful of engaging him with anything that can feed his Soul Trap. This means you have to be extra careful of where your position your Librarian and Sanguinary Priests. I'd rather not fight than feed a S6 Archon.

[Taz]

It seems to me that it would be beneficial to establish some sort of priority scale for DE units. Transports obviously would be pretty high up, if not first on the list of crud to blow up, but what should come next? How useful do you guys think scout snipers would be? I was thinking of a concept of static firebases of snipers, tac marines and devis to harry the DE skimmers and then engage with assault units when the skirmishers that are no doubt on their way to munch on the soft, nougat-ey centers inside my shooty marines before breaking out to take objectives. Am I over reaching? I know the static-ness goes against the BA fluff but I'm just trying to think of ways to control and contain the xenos a little better, not even an all-comers list. Also this idea made me wonder if HF sponson Hellstorm Baal might prove useful as a counter-assault vehicle. I haven't seen an infantry unit in the dex (though granted my knowledge of it is far inferior to some of the other brothers in this thread) that could stand getting hit with a HF that the Hellstorm cannon couldn't turn to slag. I remember reading earlier that DE like to mug, how well would they mug if a triple-template spewing baal comes out of cover and falls on them as they exit their vehicle to assault me/ footslog because I broke his low AV skimmer with my SOOPAH LC FALCON PUNCH. From what I've heard honestly as long as you take their skimmers out from under them they die easily enough

[Zeller]

Target priority:

 

Transport with Archon and retinue

Transports with wyches

Ravagers

Transports with kalabite warriors

[I am Legion]

i BLOODY HATE THOSE GOSH DARM WYCHES!!!!