New to BA looking for advice

[Kay]

Hi all of you.

Im a 8 years Ultramarines player that wants a change. Due to the fact that im a powerarmor junkie, im only attracted towards SM armies, and i think my next step into the hobbie are Blood Angels.

I currently own an Ultramarine amry of about 6.000 points and i wanted something different from vanilla with the blood angels, this is, JUMP PACKS, hoping that fun being obvius, they are competitive...

 

The point is i'd love you guys, much more experienced in this ambit than me, give me some feedback. Im debating wether to choose, or a Full Sanguinary guard list, or a full Jump pack list:

 

The sanguinary list i've thought is something such as:

 

Dante with Honor guard with 2x meltaguns and blood champion

Sanguinor

 

3XSanguinary Guard with 2x inferno pistols

3X Sanguinary Guard with 2x inferno pistols and a Power fist

 

the all jum pack army, i havent thought of a list yet, because i have no idea what to include, all i know is that it'll be restricted to units with jump packs...

 

Besides that due to my Ultramarine heritage, im a Codex guy, and chained by fluff, so i'd like to keep that in mind when building a list...

 

So, what larmy do you guys advice me?

 

Any ideas/advices/"go home smurf" and stuff is much appreciated.

 

Thanks!!

[JamesI]

BA are good at mech and pure jump pack. Some players like to mix them, others advise against it.

 

I'd recommend going pure jump pack, just to be different than your Ultras.

[Kay]

wow! that was fast! xDt hanks a lot

 

Any sample army to star with my own ideas?

 

I got no clue of how many assault squads to include, or what any other unit should i get... or HQs... or anything xD

[JamesI]

I would aim for 2-3 full assault squads (depending on points value of the game), a Vanguard squad. For HQs, best choices are Librarians, Reclusiarchs and my favorite (Astorath the Grim). At least 2 Sanguinary Priests.

 

Then add in attack bikes, land speeders, vindicators, Predators based on points.

[Kay]

its gonna be 2000k, no tanks, just jump packs... Astorath the grim, i love this guy, with or without Death Company?

 

Is it any way, fluff-wise, to justify the fielding of more than 2 assault squads? each battle company has 2, except of course, fielding the 9th Co....

[Redfinger]

Kay here is my 2k list, I have had alot of fun with it, and I have about 20 or so games now w/ an all jumper army, this current version is on the advice of another player, and I have to say since adding in the 2nd SG I have really had alot of fun.

 

Libby

HG w/ melta x3

 

SG x 2

PF x 2

 

SP x 2

 

2 x RAS x 10 melta x2/PF/melta bomb x 2

1 x RAS x 5 melta/PW/Melta Bomb

 

2 x VV x 5 Glaive/PF/SS x 3

 

The thing I have found about BA is they are all about the synergies, there more combo's they can get going the better, consequently "fluff" charecters tend to unbalance a BA list, I have ran Dante, and he works in jumper lists, but I cant speak for the others. Generally though I have found that keepign the HQ cheap and pouring points into support is the way to go. BA jumper lists need a couple fo key components to be competative, among those are;

 

VV's

HG's

SG's

SP's

 

When you start adding the points up of those units things get expensive fast. The thing is though they provide some of the critical elements that jump armies cant really take in true support form.

 

VV

The heroic intervention is great, it gives you a great 1st round strike and allows you to tarpit and hold other units up so that you can get the rest of your force into place. Dont equip them to be killy when playing at 2k, instead SS's are the way to go with them. They need to be able to survive 2-3 rounds of combat w/ the most nasty element of your oppoents list, MC, walkers, ect...

 

HG

Becuase HG can take lots of melta love and they have a built in preists they are almost a must. These guys become your ant-av platform, hopping around and popping armor for the RAS to assault. Run the Libby with these guys as he provides extra anti-av with blood lance, and can offer the HG a 5+cover save.

 

SG

These guys work in conjunction w/ your VV. SG has no inv save so pairing them w/ a VV unit that does have SS's is good as it offers multiple targert to your opponent. Howver a squad full of power weapons should be able to handle most things they are thrown against in most armies.

 

SP's

SP's grant the FNP bubbles that make the BA RAS better than most other assault type units, once you loos the FNP they loos the advantage. Keep them mobile, and moving around.

 

General strategy is to keep the army tight and close together, focus your assaults on units to wipe them out quickly, you need to maintain momentum and get the charge as often as possible. With everyone in the army having jump packs, you choose where to fight and when, you have alot of mobility.

 

Good luck!!

 

Ashton

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is my current DoA list (2k). All units except for the Furioso have jump packs...

 

Epistolary/hand flamer, Sanguine Sword & Unleash Rage

Honor Guard (chapter banner):

Novitiate

1st Veteran/pair of lightning claws

2nd Veteran/lightning claw & stormshield

3rd Veteran/lightning claw & stormshield

4th Veteran/thunderhammer & stormshield

 

The Sanguinor

 

Sanguinary Priest/power sword

Furioso/extra armor, heavy flamer & pair of Blood Talons

 

^_^

10x Assault Marine/meltagun, flamer, power fist & infernus pistol

10x Assault Marine/meltagun, flamer, thunderhammer & stormshield

 

Vanguard Veterans:

Sergeant/power fist & stormshield

4x power sword & bolt pistol

 

Stormraven/extra armor, twin linked lascannon & twin linked multi-melta

 

Epistolary, Honor Guard and Furioso ride in Stormraven.

 

0b

[bulley]

orange, what do you use for your stormraven? You've done the vendetta/land raider conversion right?

 

Topic:

 

BA's have PLENTY of options to run in their army, and a few are massivily different to anything the SM codex can run (any marine codex actually).

 

DoA is obviously the most different.

 

Scratch Sanginor out, he's a beast, but you pay for it, and he doesnt really make your army better (unlike Dante who just makes DoA armies plain better when he is in, for a 225 points).

 

As you may have noticed, Libbys are grade A HQ's for BA's - cheap at 100 points and can be run as is (powers like shield/lance/rage/fear can give you so many options). I personally dont think the 50 points for the epi is worth it, I'd rather pay another 50 points and get a 2nd libby - that way I can have more powers (keep rage and shield, but run a 2nd libby with lance or sword).

 

DoA also makes teh likes of Sang Guard, Honor Guard and Vang Vets very very good. Landing in honor guard to pop transports with x4 meltas (and dantes infernus pistol prob) and have VV charge the insides is brutal. Sang Guard are beastly in combat, just need a bit of finesse to use.

 

Also be sure to make use of plenty of priests in your army, always have 2 (honor guard gets a free one anyway).

[Kay]

Wow Thanks a lot for all your responses. Far better than I expected!

 

@redfinger: your list looks very very nice, pretty much what I was looking for, I'm gonna proxy 5he army and give it a try this week. I will let u know how it goes!

 

@black orange: your list has something I love in my marines armies wich is powerful HQs and I find your UH composition very interesting... I love the sanguinor and I think it fits pretty well in this army to face units such as trygons hive tyrants ork mobs mobs with power klaws and this kind of stuff you cannot throw plain marines at... But the stormraven, although I love the modelism opportunity it gives you, I find it out of theme..:

 

@bullet: how does Dante improve the whole army? Apart from avoiding his unit to scatter I find him pretty weak... Can you convince me of the opposite?

 

Again Thanks for your very helpful replies!!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dante is kind of like training wheels for a DoA list. Once you get the mechanics down you can play without him. Sanguinor however gives you a unit that can take down units like Abbadon. Just think about it - Only Mephiston and Sanguinor can go toe to toe with Abbadon and Mephiston does not really work in a DoA list. Sanguinor also buffs your army with the +1A bubble and making one of your sergeants into basically the equivalent of a captain that can't be picked out in close combat. Sorry bulley but I found your advice to completely miss the mark this time. I wouldn't say Sanguinor is Must Take but he is certainly very strong.

 

About the Stormraven - it can transport a dreadnaught and gives you some long range AT. I recently posted three tactical articles over on my blog about using the SR. :)

 

0b :huh:

[Redfinger]

@redfinger: your list looks very very nice, pretty much what I was looking for, I'm gonna proxy 5he army and give it a try this week. I will let u know how it goes!

 

 

Cool sounds good. Keep a few things in mind as you play this list. It plays like a game of leap frog. The VV are designed to assault the turn they land and "hold up" the advance of your opponents army, They also provide a distraction as the RAS come in, all combat squadded, I usally run the meltas and the PF/PW seperate, one is a fire team the other is a assault team. THere job is to survive the incoming fire the turn they land and then assault what ever the VV is assaulting and other untis accoarding to the mission you are playing. Then come the SG, they are the clean up crew, because of the lack of inv save I try not to have them be the "lead assaulting" squad, it is a really good idea to get them to assault something that is already being assaulted.

 

So this is how the army moves across the board, jumping from one assault to another, dont loose the momentum, and try to get the charge as often as you can. With the FNP bubbles you will be safer in CC that you will taking high str low ap shots in the open, so get into cc quickly. Also stay together, dont get spread out to far, I usally pick my oppoents weaker flank to assault as opposed to a driect approach.

 

Armies that "castle" up for the two turns that you have not come in will pose a problem for you. Usally they will surround the main force w/ a scarificial bubble that you will have to get through. I have yet to find an effective strategy agaisnt this. The other night I HI'd my VV into the two units surrounding the main force of my opponent, it was a KP game so I needed to get to work quick. because I assaulted the far edges on either side of his bubble, the squads were pulled ouward opening up the middle where my RAS and SG landed it worked out well, but I had some lucky rolls and he has some poor ones.

 

So remember the VV hold them up, the RAS kncok them down and the SG clean them up...

 

Have fun, let me know how it goes.

 

Ashton

[Kay]

@Redfinger: Thanks a lot for your "walkthrough" of the amry usage. Very very helpful. Now i feel like i have already played 2 or 3 games xD

I understand what you say about the need of using the army as a tandem, kind of eldar-like. Every unit has to support each other to achieve sucess. As far as i understand, and here i need of your experience, at least 2 assault squads, 2 VV and 2 SG are needed for this. Am i right? because i have a list in mind but uses just 1 VV, is it viable? (sort of Epist+HG, Dante, 2 SG, 2 Ass Sq, 1 VV, all of them with melta goodness)

 

@Orange: I had read your articles about the SR utility (great blog BTW) and i agree it is very useful, but im not sure it fits the theme i like, although i have to admit im recently consider it, i start to like the sight of a "wasp queen" surrounded by her "wasp warriors" xDD

So, you vot for Sanguinor to be in?

 

@all of you:

1) what about Astorath? He is pretty badass in CC and the "buff" he provides, if it can be considered a buff (the 1-3 instead of just 1) is pretty usefull considering all the army is focused in assault

2) What about Death Company, no one uses it?

 

thanks a lot again for your input, its being very very useful!

[Redfinger]

1) what about Astorath? He is pretty badass in CC and the "buff" he provides, if it can be considered a buff (the 1-3 instead of just 1) is pretty usefull considering all the army is focused in assault

 

I too have thought of using Astorath, but havent yet. I like the idea of mass red thirsting. The problem is though you lose your libby's and I cannot stress enough the need for them in a jump list, I think though of all of the named HQ's him and Dante are probably the best for a jump army.

 

2) What about Death Company, no one uses it?

 

 

Because more often than not they are a point sink and a liability. Pretty easy for a savvy opponent to just kite them around the table. I think if you do run them keep them small, 5 or less, armed for killing, and run them with a chaplin.

 

In response to your other question. I run three RAS one is only a 5man one. I use to run 3 full 10man but the VV and HG were a little on the weakside, so I upped some of thier gear. I really think you would be better off running 2 VV than 2 SG if you are bringing Dante along, put him in the same unit as Dante and place him where you know you will get the charge the next round, but out of LOS from units that will shoot at him. I have ran this variation fo the list, it is nice and seems to function well. BUt the two VV are almost a must, I really would take 3 if a could.

 

Ashton

[Kay]

Yeah, they are the best pretty much because they are the only ones with a Jump pack (Except Sanguinor xD)

 

So, I've thought on the folowwing list:

 

epistolary with jump pack, Sword and Rage

Dante

 

Honor Guard with JP: 255

2 Storm shields

1 thunder Hammer

1 Blood champion (libby goes here)

 

Sanguinary Guard: 230

2 Meltas

1 Pf (Dante goes here)

 

3 Sanguinary Priests: 225

Jump Packs

(1 with each assault squad, and the other with the Sanguinary)

 

10 Assault marines: 235

2 Meltaguns

Powerfist

 

10 Assault Marines: 225

2 Meltaguns

Power weapon

 

5 Vanguard Veterans: 205

3 Storm Shields

Glaive Encarnime upgrade

 

5 Vanguard Veterans: 180

1 Power Weapon

1 Power Fist

Glaive Encarnime Upgrade

 

2000p

 

What do you guys think of it?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Looks solid to me overall. As you've seen above I run a similar unit - Epi + HG but my HG is more choppy and I run them in the SR to keep them protected until I need them on the table. This works best for me so if it's not broke dont fix it is my mentality. I would like to suggest ya proxy a Stormraven and see how it works out for you. At least that will give you some experience and I think it's a worthwhile exercise as a SR can majorily change up how you run your army. The SR is very powerful but needs to be protected.

 

0b <_<

[jbarket]

It's a nice list, but since you've got access to a ton of models the right size, I'd do some play testing first to make sure it performs like you like.

 

Personally, I've come to the decision in my jumper list that, for the most part, it's better to take a fully loaded RAS than an elite squad. They're scoring, and with your list loaded up on priests, they're going to hit first, hit harder and just wreck whatever you run into. I run at least 3 10 man RAS with 2x MG and a PF at 1850, so I'd really recommend finding a way to squeeze third one into your list at 2000.

 

Another thing to test out is your priests. The HG come with a priest of their own who has the added benefit of not being singled out in closet combat, so you may be able to get by with only picking up 2. It really depends on how spread out you end up.

 

My last suggestion is to take your specialized units... VV who can drop in and lock squads in combat for you when everyone else can't assault after DoA, SG who are flying terminators, et cetera... and turn one of them into a tank killer. I run my HG with the banner, 4x meltas and 4x SS. It's expensive, but it is both almost guaranteed to destroy whatever I drop it behind and almost guaranteed to save the rest of my army from shooting.

 

The second you roll 4 MGs on the rear armor of some massive, expensive tank/transport of your opponents and probably annihilate it, he's going to ignore your RAS and start doing what he can to hose the HG. Since this is going to happen on the same turn the majority of your army will come in from DoA, you may be able to rely a little less on FNP and a little more on your opponent being distracted.

 

It's a strategy that works well for me because, even if they know that's my intention, the alternative of letting the HG run amock with a ton of attacks and a fistful of meltas isn't any better than wasting their round of shooting.

 

Whether you slim up and take more RAS or not, definitely find a way to load up on meltas. You want to walk up to a mech army and jump hop from transport to transport popping and assaulting.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Jump BA tend to be small armies that rely upon the synergy between various units. We don't have much or any long range AT so even the assault squad can be a specialist unit. The higher costed jump units perform specific roles that come at a bargain for the price you pay in terms of what they bring to the table.

 

0b :D

[Deus_Sanguinius]

@Kay: Well I guess you missed out the JP for your Vanguards, because they seem to be too cheap.

 

Regards

Sang

[the jeske]

Jump BA tend to be small armies that rely upon the synergy between various units. We don't have much or any long range AT so even the assault squad can be a specialist unit. The higher costed jump units perform specific roles that come at a bargain for the price you pay in terms of what they bring to the table.

 

0b :P

 

the first part is not true. only if someone tries to fit every non basic troop choice in to a single list it ends like that [and more offten then not ends up with a bad build]. 2 ras ina 2k list suck hard , specialy in a jump build that doesnt run any walls .

 

should be more like 2 ras 1 special[doesnt realy matter , which I would go for venguard] 2 tacs with rhinos and anti tank + normal HQ set up .

 

Also what is with the venguard set up . 3xss for 5 dudes 0_o , most of the time they will die dude to failing normal saves anyway and 5 man meq hth units are too small to be played anyway . should be more like 8 dudes TH/Fist +power weapon and 2 meltas. then the unit would make sense . not that I would say that VV even for BAs are top of the game choice , but if someone realy realy wants to use one unit this set up would be better.

 

glaivs are bad weapon . specialy for sgts. I dont think the buff dante gives even for a jump pack build makes him good. A jump pack build gets a lot more from runing a third rhino [for a 5 man dev squads with 2 RL at the back to support the tacs] and having a better rhino wall .

[bulley]

bullet: how does Dante improve the whole army? Apart from avoiding his unit to scatter I find him pretty weak... Can you convince me of the opposite?

 

Tactical Precision / Hit and Run for the points + how he fits into the army. Its not that he makes the entire army better stastically, he just works for it better. Also his points - vs say the sang. Though if your not taking SG - then he isn't quite as good - but making them scoring and being able to use them well (which I think is starting to happen now) - very good.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you look at the typical jump list it is small compared to other MEQ armies in general. Just look at the typical lists you tend to see here as examples.

 

0b :D

[Kay]

Hey buddies!

In the end i couldnt play this weekend, cuz my opponent chocked, so we planned to play it wednesday or around. The agony of the waiting is killing me already!

I bought a box of Death Company on friday, to use them as my HG due to their ornate armor, they gotta look awsome in gold. Still havent glued them because hell, im still deciding what gear to give them... i think im gonna stick making them choppy. but this evening i thought about getting 2 libbys, one of them, epistolary with rage and sword with a choppy HG, and the other libby, no upgrades but a jump pack, with Lance and maybe 5++ with a full meltagun HG...

 

@Deus Sanguinius: You are right, the prices are wrong, because i forgot to sum the last SS and the PF that i added with "spare points" but if you sum up the army points, you'll see that its 1955 45 points short, that is the points you pay for the SS and the PF i didnt include so the list is fine xD but thanks for pointing it out.

 

@The Jeske: You mean that i should include more RAS in my list? because i've been thinking in exchanging Dante for another 10-man with 2xmelta and PW...

The 3ss Vanguard are to be played "Redfinger Style" Land, and charge against some hard enemy, such as trygons or terminators or something like that and hold on a couple of turns with their SS until cavalry arrives... The other one is to take down enemy Devastators, rank'n'file troops, Longf fangs and the such... Thats the battleplan anyway...

[Kay]

Ok I've updated my Army.

A it more risky, but much more Hard hitting (i Think)

 

Reclusiarch with JP, and Inferno pistol - 170

Librarian with JP, Lance and 5++ - 125

 

Honor Guard

jump packs

3xSS

3xLC

1xTH

(with reclusiarch)

 

Honor Guard

jump packs

4xMG

(with librarian)

 

Sang Priest x1

jump pack

 

Sanguinary Guard

2xinferno

1xPF

 

10XAssault Squad

2xmeltas

1xPf

 

10 Assault Squad

2xmeltas

1xPW

 

5xVanguard

3xSS

 

5xVanguard

1xPw

1xPF

 

 

2000p

 

Better? Worse? none?...?