Unusual Honor Guard Loadout

[Captain Psycho]

So I've been considering different loadouts for unit of honor guard for my Librarian and I got to thinking about one of the rarely mentioned (probably for good reason) options for HG - storm bolters. I started playing around with different options and here's what I came up with:

 

HQ: Libby with jump pack and storm bolter, shield and unleash rage powers

HG: 1 Sanguinary Novitiate, 4 Honor Guard with power weapon and storm bolter, entire squad has jump packs

 

The 5 man HG comes in at a whopping 237 points which is 2 points more than the ubiquitous 10 man ASM with PF and 2 x MG. At ~47 points per model, the first (and logical) reaction is "point sink" but consider what this unit can do: deep strike or move 12 inches and fire 10 S4 AP5 shots up to 24 inches away, protect itself with the libby's shield /san novitiate's FNP on the opponent's shooting phase, then move into assault position in the next turn, fire another 10 S4 AP5 shots in the shooting phase before assaulting with +1 initiative, +1 strength and re-rolls to hit with no armor saves. All of that bolter fire can whittle down a large GEQ unit while all of those power weapon attacks (including the libby's force weapon) will tear up MEQ units. The mobility of the jump packs and the range of the storm bolters means this unit can get out of trouble fast and still remain a threat on the next turn to any unit within 36 inches.

 

Compare that to a 5 man Sanguinary Guard unit at 200 points - for FC and FNP you have to add another 75 points for a Sang Priest (who can be singled out in CC), which increases the cost per model to ~46 points. Also, Angelus Bolters, while AP4, only have a range of 12 inches.

 

Obviously the glaring weakness (aside from cost) of this unit is lack of anti-armor, so the army would have to include some anti-tank/transport support units such as AC/LC preds, rifleman dreds, etc. But good army composition is all about synergy so that really goes without saying.

 

So is this unit even remotely a good idea or just an overpriced "sub-optimal" selection?

[lords2001]

I find that they would be too expensive for the job. I would drop two power swords, keep the storm bolters if you want on them, but it saves you 30 points, and gives you two bullet catchers for any firepower coming your way.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

If you're going to do this give them Lightning Claws instead of PWs for the same points, seeing as how you aren't getting the 2 ccw bonus. However I'd give 2 of them storm shields instead of the LCs as an extra buffer just in case your libby fails the shield test.

 

-Samirus

[Erasmus of Baal]

I liek this idea! I do, however, agree with switching in Lightning Claws for the Power Swords, but sounds pretty good. Alternatively, you could try dropping the special close-combat weapons entirely and run them like Death Jester-heavy Harlequins--just dance around at the edge of the range you can shoot at and minimize their shots at you.

[Captain Psycho]

LordCommanderSamirus that is an excellent call out, re-rolls on to wound from the claws combined with the re-rolls to hit from the libby's rage and FC/FNP from the hidden priest means this unit will hit as hard and stand up to incoming fire as well as death company with a reclusiarch attached (albeit at WS4 not WS5) but without the control issues from rage and for less points (which isn't saying much considering how horribly overpriced jump pack DC are).

Even better is the fact that if I were to make the models for this unit I would probably use the SM commander right arm bit for the storm bolter so the left arm laser claw bit would match up perfectly (ebay here I come).

Erasmus of Baal I don't think I would drop the CCWs - I see this as a unit that operates in the midfield, using the storm bolters to reduce the size of a larger unit before finishing them off in close combat (think a pack of grey hunters that just had their rhino popped open by an AC/LC pred or rifleman dred). All of those S4 AP5 shots at 24 inches would even give DE troops trouble I would think (haven't looks at the new lists popping up on the web yet so I could be wrong there).

[SamaNagol]

You do realise you have effectively built a worse Sanguinary Guard unit?

[lorider2]

You do realise you have effectively built a worse Sanguinary Guard unit?

 

But you do have the 24 inch reach and the built in priest.

[SamaNagol]

No, but you do have a 2+ save for your 40+pts a model unit

[Captain Psycho]

How so? The SG have better armor saves and a higher AP assault 2 ranged weapon (but at range 12" not 24") but they do not get FC/FNP unless they have a sang priest attached, which as I mentioned in the original post would make them more expensive and the SP could be singled out in close combat whereas the HG priest is hidden. Also HG do not take up an elite slot. Not sure in what way the SG would be better other than the 2+ sv. imho there are enough SG negatives in comparing the two to give the advantage overall to the HG (but I could be wrong, I'd like to hear the deails behind your statement).

 

EDIT: just saw you reply, I don't know if I agree, better odds on the SG getting the save but with FNP the HG is getting re-rolls on wounds and the SG can only get that with an IC elite slot SP.

[Dingareth]

Well, it's not the worse unit ever, but it's up there. Why do you want your Honor Guard to provide Bolter shots, something you can get elsewhere in the Force Org chart for cheaper? Where else can you get 4 Meltaguns, 2 Lightning Claws, and 2 Storm Shields? That's the way to go with a tooled out Honor Guard unit.

[SamaNagol]

You've tried to build a jack of all trades unit which is meant to hit hard in CC, be survivable and also pose a threat at mid-range fire.

 

SG will, without a shadow of a doubt, kill nigh on anything they get the charge on if you pay the points for a SP and the Chapter Banner. As you are charging usually with them it is VERY easy to ensure your SP is kept well away from anything with attacks that ignore saves.

 

The Librarian is just icing on the cake for both units.

 

But honestly, instead of spending an absolute fortune on models with all LCs and Storm Bolters, give Sanguinary Guard a run out. It's only 20 quid for the entire unit in a box.

 

But IF you do go for the Honour Guard, make sure at least one model has a Thunder Hammer and a Meltagun. If you ever get bogged down by a Monstrous Creature or a Dreadnought, that unit is 450pts of dead meat if it has no way of stunning and killing it.

[Captain Psycho]

Very good points SamaNagol - that's why I posted here, the advice on these boards is always sound and presented in a helpful way.

 

I think I'll proxy some models from my 10 man ASM and try them as both the HG and the SG to see which performs better, if I had to guess I'd expect the SG to perform better against Wolves and other Angels while the HG with storm bolters might do better against DE.

[SamaNagol]

Small children throwing rocks will kill DE, to be fair.

[shatter]

I like it.

 

It can fall back, kill baddies, cast shield/FnP and protect neighbours while it does so.

 

A Sanguard squad couldn't really do all of that.

 

If one likes to play water style, I'd try it out before knocking it.

[SamaNagol]

The Librarian, as I said, is an addition to both squads.

[shatter]

Not disputed.

 

SG can't shoot and fall back (and stay out of most assault ranges).

[SamaNagol]

I dont really look at my 450pt assault units to fall back and lay down very average ranged fire. Personally.

[shatter]

But as we've all established, that's not all they can do. They're quite flexible... and not just an assault unit.

 

They either work for the list they're in and the general's play-style, or they're a bad choice... much like any unit in the game. Which brings me back to an earlier suggestion of trying them if 'water style' is one's bag.

[Captain Psycho]

Shatter it is funny that you mentioned Water Style because I got the idea from the Grey Knights which is the troop unit in Silent Requiem's 1000 point dual raider water warrior list. In this case I'm trading the land raiders for jump packs and counting on other units to provide long range/anti-tank fire support.

 

The other inspiration was from the BA tactica thread on Warseer, there's a post on page 47 that compares the GEQ/MEQ assault kill ratio for all of the BA assault type units. It's an excellent post and definitely worth reading - the conclusion is that HG compete well with SG at killing MEQ and are more efficient in terms of points against large units of GEQ - the storm bolters and power weapons are meant to enhance their prowess against both (although I've eliminated their point effeciency by loading them up with wargear).

To SamaNagol's point this is a unit that is meant to do several things well which may be a bit of a stretch. But as I mentioned earlier, I see this unit operating in the midfield where their mobility and range maximize their potential.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It look like a Tau approach to playing BA . :D

 

0b ^_^