DoA/DS Army - Tips & Tricks

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah very well said DV8 !

 

:sweat:

 

G :lol:

[spec.ops]

@DV8

 

-I did.

 

-Thanks for elaborating on my question by helping pin down what a DoA list exactly is and how it attempts to achieve victory though standard scenarios – holding objectives.

[DV8]

@Dv8: Overdoing yourself man! Excellent information! That is definitely going up on the OP. Wow, couldn't have said it any better myself! Woo!

 

For purposes of this thread and what it was designed for and the specific DoA lists it was made to help (pure DoA) I will include a description on the army in the OP. Thanks DV8 again!

 

You might want to spell check what you quoted, because I mispelt "Sanguinor's" name. Put Sanguinary instead.

 

@Mort, JamesI, and Black Orange

 

Glad I could help! :)

 

 

DV8

[BrotherTim]

Not sure if this is a good place for this, but I thought it may help for people to see an example of a DoA list that has worked very well for me. The total number of marines on the battlefield is very important in a DoA army. I have 43 the following 1500pt list.

 

Librarian w/ JP, FoD, SoS

 

2 Sang. Priests w/ 2JP, 2MB

 

3x 10 Man RAS w/ 2 MG, PW, HF

 

10 Man VVet w/ JP, 2 PF, 2 LC, 5 SS

 

I usually combat squad the VVets into an one anti armor (two fists w/ ss) and anti troop (2 LC w/ ss and 1 reg guy w/ ss). These two squads act as a screen for the rest of my deep striking army. The SPs attach to 2 of the RAS while the libby goes with the third. If you have any other questions about the list, let me know and I would be glad to answer them.

 

-Brother Tim

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

@ DV8

 

I posted your mini tactica for DoA on my blog and quoted you. It's too good not to share .

 

: )

 

G :woot:

[BrotherTim]

Just a question, could we possibly get this post stickied. I for one have found the information presented here very helpful and I'm sure it can/will help many more in the future. Thanks!

[Rage Is On]

I just started playing a DoA list, and as a first time Blood Angel player I am already very excited by the possibilities this army offers. I wanted to stop in and use my virginal post to extend my thanks and gratitude for this thread and all of those whom have offered up wise and informative thoughts on the subject of Jump Pack armies.

 

Thank you.

 

End of Line

[syypher]

@Rage&Everyone: I'm glad this thread is getting as much responses as it is. This is all thanks to the great community and smart generals here at B&C! Good to hear this stuff is helping a lot of people out :)

[Gv0zD]

@Rage&Everyone: I'm glad this thread is getting as much responses as it is. This is all thanks to the great community and smart generals here at B&C! Good to hear this stuff is helping a lot of people out :)

It is good to have such a collection of tactical tips&hints on DoA list. I'll join Rage Is On and say that this thread helped me a lot to decide on my new BA list. It's really helpful. I hope this thread will transform into full Tactica article (as was proposed earlier by spec.ops).

[daveclark890]

Hi and thanks for an amazing article!! I am just starting out with blood angels and DoA is such an exciting prospect to me. I have been totally engrossed in this stuff!!

[MikeD]

Great article, and extremely useful, however I got into an issue of contention on your tip #1. The use of the deployment as a game term is vague and causing a few questions in my gaming group.

 

Last game I had attempted to split up my 10 man squad after I rolled for reserves as a deepstrike deployment, I was told that as a unit of 10 the combat squadding of the unit occurred during the deployment setup phase when i declared what is in reserve and via deepstrike, not after the roll is made.

 

Is that tip legal, and do you have reference for it? i want to use it as it allows a more tactical deepstrike to react to the threats better. here is some talk from our local forum:

 

My Initial post

Last game, I attempted to use Combat squads and reserve rolls to combat squad as I deployed (re: placed on the table via deepstrike) my ten man squad after a sucessfull single reserve roll. He pointed out that it is not allowed unless the unit is in a drop pod (the after the reserve roll then combat squad action), essentially I was attempting to gain the advantage of a full ten man assault squad coming in on one reserve roll, and then combat squadding and deepstriking seperately at the 'deepstrike and deploy', not at the 'deployment phase'.

 

Hence a 'loop hole', I thought was legal as per this discussion on BnC (tip 1):

 

(link to this post)

 

Now, I see and understand where he is coming from, in the rule book, the reserves rules say that the unit is rolled for seperately, however it continues to use the word DEPLOY. There is no specific distinction when they use the terms Army Deployment, and Unit Deployment.

 

 

From the rulebook, Rolling for Reserves, page 94:

 

"Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it."

 

From the Blood Angels Codex, on Combat Squads:

 

"The decision to split the unit into combat squads as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in seperate locations. The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod - the player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks."

 

Now, the Drop Pod precident is invalid as an argument against the Jump pack unit situation due to the fact that it relates to Disemenbarkation only, in the case of deepstrike there is no correlation.

 

Now, this tactic would be very usefull in the 10 man Vanguard Vet situation, and I think it is both legal and fluffy. However, I do see Joe's argument, as the fact that during the DEPLOYMENT PHASE, the player declares who is reserved and who is deepstriking (as per Preparing Reseves, page 94 as well). The deployment phase rules do not specifically address the combat squad situation.

 

The Local Forum Response:

 

The other part of it is this:

 

A Marine Squad of 10 men = 1 Unit = 1 Kill Point

 

A Marine Squad of 10 men that has Combat Squaded becomes 2 separate Units = 2 Kill Points

 

The decision to Combat Squad is made during Deployment (at the beginning of the game), the same time when you decide to attach ICs to Units and what units (if any) that you wish to keep in Reserve.

 

Beginning with the 2nd Turn, Players roll for their reserves (rolling for each unit) and deploy any units that are to come in. Each Combat Squad being a separate units is rolled for separately.

 

Remember GW writes as a permissive rule-set, telling what you CAN do, hence the Drop Pod Exception.

 

***

The reason the Deployment phase rules do not mention Combat Squads is because it is a Marine Special Rule and doesn't apply across the board. What it does mention on pg 94, when discussing Reserves is that you roll of each UNIT after describing what is reserved and their make-up whether an IC is attached, or if the unit is embarked in a transport. Combat Squading is like attaching an IC or holding something in Reserve to Deep Strike, something taht is decided and announced during Deployment.

***

 

 

Any ideas? Is the term Deployment only confusing me? I don;t think the drop pod thing is a valid argument, but I can agree with the killpoints argument...

 

In Syypher's line;

 

a) You can combat squad after your reserve roll, so you'll essentially get both in and get both squads into assaults. (If you combat squad ofcourse..)

 

Is there any precedent or rule explaining that?

[captain Mungo]

I get confused reactions to this as well, but I think the key wording can be found on page 94 in the rulebook just a bit above the one you quoted:

 

"When deploying their army, players may choose

not to deploy

one or more units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

In my opinion this combined with those two rules you qouted leaves little doubt that it's not only legal but actually the only way to do it.

 

Ofcourse one can argue that this isn't intended but it seems pretty clear. Though its not a deal breaker for me so Id rather enjoy the game than start it off with a vindictive opponent.

[Simpsonia]

The local forum argument is specious at best. Just look at the language and tenses of the rules.

 

The rulebook states that a player may choose "not to deploy" a unit. Hence, any unit left in reserves are not yet deployed. Upon rolling reserves, you then deploy (present tense) at that time. Looking at combat squads the language is again present tense "IS deployed." Combat squads are decided upon at the exact moment of deployment, which as the rule shows is only after all reserve rolls have been made.

[MikeD]

The simplest answers are always right in front of our eyes, aren't they? Thanks for the help Captain Mungo and Simpsonia. I agree that the point of not choosing to deploy is the pin in the argument.

 

Sorry for the interruption and thanks again. Carry on with more Awesome DoA army list tips! I am practicing with my Jumpers list as much as possible thanks to threads like this one.

[daboarder]

I'll play devil's advocate.

 

Doesnt combat squading occur not during deployment but during the deployment phase, therefore they become sepperate units that are then "not deployed on the table" and must therefore roll sepperately on reserves.

 

What if i want to combat squad and keep one of the combat squads in reserve but deploy the other on the table?

 

Why then does the droppod specifically state that you combat squad only after you come out of the pod if every unit was able to do it in accordance with the rules.

[captain Mungo]

The decision to split the unit into combat squads as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed.

The decision to split the unit must be made when the unit is deployed. So when is that?

 

When deploying their army, players may choose

not to deploy

one or more units in their army and instead leave them in reserve.

So placing a unit in reserve is to not deploy said unit.

 

Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving

and deploys it.

There we have it!

 

Sorry for dumbing it down, I just enjoy logical structuring :P

 

@daboarder:

Yeah, some choose to play like that. Many tournaments here in Sweden use a community FAQ (which overall is pretty decent, check it out) that forces players to combat squad during the deployment phase.

I suppose with the above rules the simple answer to the second question is you can't deploy one and reserve one combat squad, since you must deploy it to combatsquad it and if you deployed it you cant re-reserve it. Probably a good example of why some rather combatsquad during the deployment phase.

Regarding the Droppod I assume its because the pod can only transport one unit at a time.

[Mezkh]

The Drop-pod exception is because the unit inserted by a drop pod is technically deployed as one unit inside the pod pre-disembarkment. It then gets the choice to combat squad on disembarkment, which is after the pod is deployed. Confusing? You betcha :P

 

Just think of it as (units disembark from drop pods, they don't deploy from them). You can't combat squad on a disembark move, ie a Rhino can't drive on from reserve and disembark two combat squads. The same would apply to the drop pod landing, but for the specific permission allowing a combat squad after disembark for drop pods.

[anglesdesangre]

This is all great info. As a newbie this has answered soooo much for me. Thank You for this addition to my information library. :mellow:

[Arebennian]

So I am replying to this thread, necro-ing it, because I have a few questions about DOA army composition and possible problems.

 

1) How do you deal with 'Death Star' units that can munch through your force? TH Termies, Nob bikers etc.

 

2) Should you really not equip your Priests with PW/PF because they should be at the back of the assult and safe from being wounded?

 

3) I see a lot of lists with Vanguard Veterans. They seem really expensive for their ability (although I do understand their worth. I just don't know if I could consider them totally worth it). Are they really needed in these sorts of lists? Or can those points be spent on a other elite unit (or troops or speeders etc.).

 

4) Are landspeeders worth taking to provide some sort of ranged anti-tank?

 

5) Is a banner for moral needed?

 

6) An aside question: Can terminators be put in a Stormraven?

[JamesI]

1. I have yet to run into a death star unit that I can't whittle down with some shooting and then assault and finish off. Of course, I don't play pure DOA, I include some attack bikes and 2 dev squads for support.

 

2. A priest should never have a powerfist (in my opinion) as a 1 wound model that strikes at initiative 1 will die too often to get to swing. I give my priests power weapon or lightning claw and expect they will not be in the rear during an assault.

 

3. Vanguard are worth it (again my opinion). When facing stuff like Long fangs, some shooty tau units, its great to drop right into assault. I say keep them cheap, I've seen 5 man squads go over 300 points. I run 6 at 260.

 

4. Landspeeders or attack bikes I think are worth it but not everyone agrees, I guess landspeeders fit the theme better than bikers.

 

5. I wouldn't bother with a banner except to give a sanguinary guard unit (hopefully with a nasty IC attached) the +1 attack.

 

6. Terminators can ride in a Raven, taking up 2 spaces each.

[MikeD]

Right now I play all DoA Lists, so here is my 2 cents:

 

1) How do you deal with 'Death Star' units that can munch through your force? TH Termies, Nob bikers etc.

 

-I currently use VV with Storm Shields, and a local player uses SS with his honor guard and add banners/lightning claws. I use my VV with Heroic Intervention to land an assault. Be sure to have a second unit ready with a Priest to pop some shots and combo charge when the VV land. Combo charges with VV and pretty much anything else, has never failed me, but I may be just real lucky... The VV can all be tooled with SS and Power Swords to crack high saves as well.

 

2) Should you really not equip your Priests with PW/PF because they should be at the back of the assult and safe from being wounded?

 

-I tend to use Lightning claws as I can still keep my attached IC out of Base to Base when I charge, yet his attacks still contribute. Just like James mentioned. I just can't let that WS 5 go to waste...

 

3) I see a lot of lists with Vanguard Veterans. They seem really expensive for their ability (although I do understand their worth. I just don't know if I could consider them totally worth it). Are they really needed in these sorts of lists? Or can those points be spent on a other elite unit (or troops or speeders etc.).

 

-As I mentioned in question 1, I use VV in my lists with Storm Shields as a Tie up unit on heroic intervention. It helps tie up large enemy units and stay alive enough to allow my assault squad or honor guard to position for the killing blow. Any way you slice it, for DoA I tend to have a 250-300 point unit, be it tooled up VV or tooled up Honor guard. Either way I see these one of these two units are good ways to get a sharp razor into the army, and for me I like to have at least one sharp tool in the box.

 

4) Are landspeeders worth taking to provide some sort of ranged anti-tank?

 

-In completely DoA lists, I wouldn't recommend it, as your beginning on board units should be well covered by Los when starting on the board, and your Deepstriking units will be in assault ASAP after turn 2. This leaves the enemy with no targets except your speeders, so they will bring all their guns to bear on the units they can hit...For those points, an honor guard with 4 Meltaguns does just as good, and a combat squadded 2 meltagun assault unit works as well to drop and pop, then contribute as a small combo charge unit.

 

5) Is a banner for moral needed?

 

-Like mentioned above, your honor guard could be tooled up with a banner to really slice into deathstars. Never done it myself, but a Stormraven or LRC might be a good delivery system as they are assault vehicles.

 

6) An aside question: Can terminators be put in a Stormraven?

 

-The rules specifically mention power armor, jump packs, and one dreadnought. There is no written specific for it, so I would say no, just to be safe and avoid any issue.

 

-MikeD

[Emperors Immortals]

I agree with whats said above except that Terminators are allowed in an SR - taking up 2 spaces each.

[AngryJohnny]

This thread has some great stuff. I'm a 1st time BA player & want a pure DoA list & this has definitely given me some great insight on how to construct & use them.

 

I did have one question though; regarding splitting into combat squads after deep striking. I know it was covered in some detail here, but I was reading the C:BA FAQ from GW & came across this:

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and

then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat

squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the

Drop Pod? (p32)

 

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not

break down into combat squads.

 

This was confusing to me - when I first read it it seemed to indicate that squads will choose to combat squad after entering play, which is what we all want. Then I re-read it and it seems to say to that if we choose to keep a squad in reserve we may not break it down into combat squads.

 

This is causing me confusion from the FAQ because it doesn't specify whether or not they can't be broken into combat squads only while they are held in reserve or if they forgo their ability to combat squad because they were held in reserve. The wording on the answer doesn't isolate the squads using a drop pod either, it just says "squads" - indicating all squads?

 

Is that why there is an exception to the combat squad rules for the Drop Pod allowing the squad to break into combat squads after entering play because normally they would not be allowed to do so because they were held in reserve?

 

How have you all handled this point in the FAQ? Does it support the argument that we can in fact combat squad our DoA units after they arrive? Or is it reinforcing the other argument that we cannot?

[Quixus]

All this point says is that you cannot put half of a squad in the drop pod and the other half elsewhere. This has nothing to do with general combat squadding.

Yes you can combat squad units that enter from reserve, whether as DS or from the table edge.

 

BTW there is already at least one topic in the rules section about this.

[Gv0zD]

In my opinion you place the whole squad in reserve and roll once, as the squad is meant to deploy, once reserve roll is passed, you split it into two squads that are further deployed.