Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hey lads bit of a conundrum. I want a Character that can hold his own in combat other than my solitary lby in my list and i have come down to 3 options but id rather option 1 or 2. The sanguinor i have run a few time and in some games he can be outstanding and in others he can fail miserably. In one of my most recent games he went down to splinter cannon fire of 8 wounds. 4 got through his 2+! So my options are: 1. Astaroth 2. Sanguinor 3. Second JP Libby. The list they would be running with is: Libby w/ Jump Pack Assault Squad w/ 2 Meltas, Fist Assault Squad w/ 2 Meltas, Fist Assault Squad w/ Meltas, Flamer Sanguinary Guard w/ Fist Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack x 2 Vanguard Vets. w/ Jump Packs, Fist Honour Guard w/ Jump Packs, 3 Meltas. What do ye think? *Edit: Libby would be running with Shield, Lance if with Astaroth and Shield + Rage if ran with sanguinor, 2nd Libby would be Shield and Lance also if used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Molon Labe Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I would take Astorath. He gives you a 50% shot at Red Thirst he has S6 power weapon attacks and he causes whateveer unit he is in to reroll their misses. Yes Sanguinor can add +1A to all units under his aura and he is super resilient with his saves but his cost is what makes him not as viable. Both are great force multipliers I just prefer Astorath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 4. Mephiston? Kidding... mostly. :) I'd prefer a 2nd libby or Astorath. I'd also be tempted to make it an epistolary to use force weapon after lance(/sword) so that you've got something a little Anti-toughguy. The sanguinor is too obvious a target in this list I reckon. Although his blessing will be 'on' even if he croaks. Just out of curiosity, and ignoring ICs, why have you no PWs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Augustus Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Sanguinor as lets face it your not using one of Astorath's main rules...plus at the end of the day he's still only a strength 8 hit away from hitting the foor as apposed to the Sanguinor's eternal warrior rule plus he makes one of your Sgt's eternaly better because lets face it who doesnt like 4 power fist attacks on the charge with 2 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Well I would choose Astorath because of the 50% Chance for getting FC/ fearless, his killy axe and the possibility to attach him to a squad and make them fearless/ rerolls to hit. The Sanguinor is nice, but I think he is a little bit too expensive to be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 I have rarely run Pw's and have always been doing well without them but the Sang guard add 4 :P I have been leaning toward Astro myself and @ Brother Augustas to what rule are you referring to? I have my codex right here and they will all apply to my army. @ Shatter. I didnt think about an Epistolary w/ Sword/ Shield so i can kill MC's. Hmmmm you have peaked my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Maybe he is leaning towards the 0-1 DC restriction which only matters for pure DC armys and is just a bonus in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Molon Labe Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I believe that Brother Augustas is refering to Astorath's rule about taking more than one Death Company unit rule. But he has many other pros that I think not using all his rules is negligable when looking at his overall force enhancing capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I like the Sanguinor personally. And to avoid the 4 Splinter Cannon wounds the OP mentioned try running him next to a unit in a transport with a priest in. 4 wounds on 2+/3+ Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain is tough nut to crack plus the transport may block LOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 Gaz read above not using transports. Jump Packs only area here! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Molon Labe Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 How many points are you working with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Gaz read above not using transports. Jump Packs only area here! Aww boo! Well same applies minus the transport i guess, just get him FNP :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 1750 points. Will be used as tourney army coming up in january if it turns out to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Astorath is the "buffer", he is going to make your amry stronger, and specially the squad he is with. With a nice combination of Power Weapons, you can make a hell of a fight. Sanguinor is a supposbly tough guy. But he is kinda expensive, not super strong, and not super tough either... He is good in CC, but somehow I think Astorath and his squad can do far more that the Sanguinor alone. Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 With all of the support for astaroth i think i will go with him. First time too! Do you think he can run well with the list or does it need some small changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulley Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Competativly the 2nd libby is the better option as it will give you more balance (less points, pretty much another unit, more bodies, not putting hope into 1 unit getting your points back etc.. etc..) but if I was to choose 1 - probably sang. He can make one of your Sarges a near IC, he is beastly himself and can deck a lot of people in combat. Astorath is a chaplin, but better obviously, but you can get most the benefits of him for a 150 points (w/ jp) if so required, and again end up with a 2nd libby still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I have rarely run Pw's and have always been doing well without them but the Sang guard add 4 ^_^ lol *facepalm* Still, I'm totally surprised to see none on the VV. As for the 2nd libby option. If you're DoA-ing the whole lot and the libbies would run on two separate squads, having shield & hoods on two separate reserve rolls is obviously handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 vanguard vets depstriking wit mini captain, or furious charge... id lean towards astro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Mungo Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 ...I have been leaning toward Astro myself and @ Brother Augustas to what rule are you referring to? I have my codex right here and they will all apply to my army. ... I believe Augustas is referring to "Shadow of the Primarch", the Red Thirst buff that Astorath gives that you really have little use for since you're already paying alot for all those priests to guarantee you the FC bonus. So really if you wanna go with Astorath you will be doing it for his awesome axe, but Ive found that in most games where I field priests a regular Reclusiarch will do just as good and leave 65 more points for bodies. Ive only recently started trying Sanguinor out and his +1A auro is great for a DoA list since youll often be packed up pretty tight to not get picked off piece by piece, those attacks makes a huge difference in almost every fight. BUT, he dies really easy. Eternal warrior and 3++ only goes so far for a 3W T4 character, especially in a pure DoA list where he literally have nowhere to hide and will be an obvious target. And he costs ALOT of points so If I were to field him Id want a Land Raider to hide him behind, but in a DoA list I think the pimped out Vanguard unit you can get for those 275pts is both gonna stay around longer and do more significant damage. Jumppack Libbys is something Ive wanted to like all along but the problem is they really suckthe in Assault. If your fighting a unit with any kind of special weapon they WILL die first round of combat because of their lack of invl.save and they rarely do any damage themself except for once every tenth game or so when they manage to Instakill some expensive char or monster. The hood is good however and theire ranged powers can be really devastating. Blood boil triggers alot more than youd think looking at it, say you get 2-3 shots off every game thats almost always one pimped out sergeant per game dead on arrival. Fear of the darkness can force heavy weapon groups off the table before they even get their first shot off. Shield should also be worthwile but where I usually play coversaves are pretty easy to come by so havent played it much. For those reasons I prefer running libbys in close ranged shooty units or support units where they can do the most damage and stay alive. In conclusion Id recommend a Reclusiarch for your list Captain Lucius, for his worth and needed assaultiness. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeterni Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Personally, the special chars are nice, but I never use them unless I've themed my list around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfinger Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Before suggesting either I would ask this; How are you running you Librarian? I have a DOA list that is almost identical to yours, but I run 2 SG instead of of, and a single librarian, rarerly have I had probelms w/ him not being able to hold his own in CC. Your list as written lacks some CC punch, and I can see that is why you would want to add a better cc HQ, but the problem with that train of though is cost, for that one model, you are not producing enough attacks/hits that an equivalent elite unit would, so I feel the answer to your solution is more harder hitting units, better use of the current Libby, and not to rely on herohammer's to do your cc lifting. Try to work a second SG into the list. Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Hmm this is actually a pretty hard choice, though overall I prefer Astorath over Sanguinor considering the amount of models you field, who would benefit from the +1 attack, the Sanguinor might be the better choice. On the other hand if you take Astorath you spend 55 points less which you could use to give your honour guard a power weapon and powerfist (right now they're kinda sad having a build in priest but not being that great to assaut with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 @ Redfiner i generally run my libbies with Shield and Rage with an Assault squad with added priest. Today i played a game against a 10 TH/SS Termie and Shrike List which i got tabled 9-7 KP. He took that list for the lulz and i really did lack something that could stand up to those Fleeting termies. The list i took today is something slightly different to the above which is this Astaroth Libby w/ Jump Pack Honour Guard w/ 3 Meltaguns, Fist, JP's Honour Guard w/ 3 Plasma Guns, JP's Vanguard w/ Fist, Claw, JP's Assault Squad w/ Fist, 2 Meltaguns Assault Squad w/ Fist, 2 Meltaguns Assault Squad w/ Fist, 2 Meltaguns Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack I was surprised the PlasmaGuard did well actually. They killed 2 MM/HF Landspeeders and 1 or 2 Assault termies. Vanguard need SS's. I was thinking if i drop the lone priest in place of SS's and an extra claw on the Vanguard. What do ye think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Stay with the priest, FnP is just brilliant. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 may be so but in place of him i could get 3 SS's and an extra claw on the vanguard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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