Tackling Dark Eldar

[zebanash]

Greetings brethren,

 

With the new DE codex we have at least 2 members in my local meta that seem to have fallen in love with them (Must be My Chemical Romance Fans) so i look forward to taking them for a stroll down the blood is better lane.

 

I figure high str high ap shots are the bees knees when it comes to taking out dark eldar, but i'd like everyones particular experiences in dealing with the new codex and what you might find particularly effective.

[BrotherTim]

Autocannons and missile launchers! If you take out their mobility early, the entire army is crippled significantly. Take the longer ranged weapons to negate the sheilds their skimmers have.

[Zeller]

Bring priests to drag his wych squads into prolonged engagements. Do not combat squad when fighting them since their damn tokens will quickly make up for their pathetic fragility. Do not rely on melta to fry the paper planes. They will probably take the upgrade that subtracts 6inches from your weapon range when targetting that vehicle. In my experience the basic squad members are nothing special. The sergeants and HQ's are where the pain lies. PW's, lots of attacks, and beyond retarded initiative. Flamers are wonderful. Don't take those typical small RAS squads in razorbacks unless you can make sure the DE birds are dead allowing you to put your infantry where you want them.

 

*End rabble*

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

So far I am not impressed with them... though the two DE players here, like everyone else, are still just getting acquainted with the book.

 

In every game versus DE so far I've used a mix of JP and mech... their stuff is so fast and very often they get first assault, but because their vehicles are so flimsy they have yet to come all together for a big punch. I am usually facing piece-meal DE units that still lose combat when they assault first. I was deathly afraid of the Wyches prior to my last several games (because of last edition), but they are really not so bad. FnP and Unleash Rage makes Wyches cry. The Incubi are tough though they've still yet to win a combat against me, single squad versus single squad.

 

I would say make sure you know what is in each transport. Shoot the ones with Incubi and Grotesques first. Also use cover because, except the Wyches, most of their stuff doesn't have frag grenades. Taking away Initiative from them really helps.

[Chimaera2000]

My Autolas Predator was the star of the show in the last match I played against the Dark Eldar, eliminating two Voidraven Bombers and a Venom. My two Assault Marine squads were out-assaulted by two Wych squads; if you can do without meltaguns, 2x flamers may be a superior choice for their effectiveness against Dark Eldar infantry. If fired at a unit without a Pain token, two flamers plus bolt pistols may eliminate the entire squad.

[Poetic]

Against my first 1850 pt game Vs DE my Assault Termies were the MVPs

 

215 pts of models in a Redeemer took out 2 Pain Engines, Urien and 10 Grotesques and took one casualty in return.

 

His list was something along the lines of:

 

Urien

10 Grotesques

30-40 Wracks

3 Pain Engines

2 Raiders

A Few other things that I blew up pretty quickly

 

 

 

Advice:

 

1. Look out for their template weapons, they shread through power armor. I lost a full Tactical Squad in a single round of shooting to 2 Flame template, random AP weapons

 

2. If your opponent holds models in reserve and leaves a Model with a webway portal on the board, make sure that model gets focused, or at least slowed.

 

Looking forward to playing a few more games against DE. Its refreshing to not play against Power Armour.

[shatter]

Thanks for that, guys. Play them more and post about it. =)

[Dingareth]

What are Dark Eldar good at? Being fast and killing things with Lance weapons. They're T3, so S6 will keep them from getting their FnP. Now if only we had something that was fast, didn't give any special bonuses to their Lance weapons, is immune to Poison, and had a lot of S6+ shots.

 

Oh would you look at that! We've got Razorbacks and Dreads! Just one more reason Mech'd Blood Angels are that much more viable these days.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There is a steep learning curve to playing dark eldar competitively. What I'm seeing is an influx of players new to this race starting new armies. In it's past life dark eldar was an army seldom seen. I think smart players that stick with the new codex will get better and we will begin to see them winning more often. This is a finesse army with little to no room for making mistakes.

 

As stated dark eldar are fast, high initiative, good at shooting and good in close combat. Their main weakness is they are fragile. We all know this. :) But there has been plenty new things brought to the table... Power from Pain - the army can grow stronger over the course of the game. It will be very interesting to see if this can bare significant fruit. Dark eldar have always had some very nasty tricks up their sleeves! There are plenty of new tricks in the new codex so beware. They can punish you.

 

As as BA versus DE goes I am thinking we are okay. We've got speed and mobility - not quite at the same level as dark eldar but what we have really helps a lot. I am seeing the Sanguinor as an excellent choice - high initiative so he is still most often swinging first or simo - high WS, very important so that every attack hits - high strength, on the charge he can insta gib most any multiple wound character in their army... This brings some fear into the equation for dark eldar players... Keep them cautious and they'll lose their initiative. As far as mech goes I do believe that dark eldar players are going to figure out how to beat these armies. Sure it's still hard to wreck or destroy but those lance can glance the Hell out of you. They've got haywire grenades - this is an excellent defense versus our dreads and is part of the solution to mech.

 

I have always respected what dark eldar can do even though I've rarely ever lost versus the dark kin. As I said I think they'll become more potent over time. Beware of those nasty tricks.

 

G :D

[liberate_tutame]

All good points Black Orange. I think that the shouts that DE would herald the end of mech were ridiculously premature, anyone familiar with the old DE codex will know that it was great at shooting and hand-to-hand but fragile and the masses of lances they brought to the table while great at countering Land Raider spam (e.g. Deathwing armies) their bane was always the humble TL-Heavy Bolter on Razorbacks and the TL-Assault Cannons on the Baals. I don't think I need to reiterate it but I will, the best weapon against the DE is the Baal followed by the not-so-humble TL-Assault cannon Razorback. You are paying cheaply for a weapon that will instakill most DE units, transports troops, you are getting a AV 11 fast tank, and while its armour is that little bit lower which means the lance is not being used the DE player is paying the usual price for his now less effective weapon, the Dark Lance.

 

I think, I have yet to see a matchup, but I think that Descent of Angels lists will have huge problems against the DE. Even with the initiative 8 of the Sanguinor (if they take him). I just don't know how after the initial alpha strike how they will survive the return fire and inevitable assault.

 

I am not too worried about Haywire Grenades, dreadnoughts are still ferocious against DE. The best advice I can give you versus the DE is NEVER charge their elite close combat units, except with a dreadnought, always shoot them to death.

 

As a sidenote, I honestly do not see the death of mech until the Necrons arrive. The Nid's came, and the closest they got was their Hive Guard. The Wolves arrived and pretty much perfected marine mech. The Blood Angels arrived and despite all our new interesting and wonderful toys, the huge boost that Deep-striking jumpers get in our list, we did not break mech. We did bring what is arguably the third best mech out there to the game. DE came, and while it will take more time to see how they will affect the game they do not seem to be the game changing army they were hyped up to be, they are great, no doubt. But not game changing. I think GW will charge Necrons with the task of breaking mech guard lists. Gauss will probably be the tool, allowing all Necrons to hurt vehicles properly (glance on a 5, pen on a 6 might be enough on gauss blasters...). As a final note, I think Necron versus DE will be great matchups when that day comes. As we say here, the day don't be long coming. Hope my rambling wasn't too off the point.

[Murcielago]

Dark Eldar (as said above) are one of the most difficult armies to play. True, they are fragile and are easily killed but the pain that they can dish out is amazing to say the least. With the new release, people are still tinkering with lists and themed armies (IE wych cults and haemonculus covens) which probably arent competitive at all.

 

Once players start figuring out the good tricks to use, things are going to start changing. As dobtful as it sounds, once the new players start getting some games under their belt, they'll figure out what combos can be effective. I know I've got the codex and I can see some nasty things happening should they be played right. Although Im not too competitive on mech marine lists, I have done battles where Dark Eldar have slaughtered almost all other space marine units...All in all, time will tell how the Dark Eldar can play.

 

PS: we are also probably the best marine army to deal with Dark Eldar as well since we can almost match their speed.

[thundrchickn]

got 2 games against a DE player. He's new to them but an awesome player and his list do seem tough. i game I played triple stormraven and tonight was my MSU tank spam. spearhead deployment is our greatest weapon against DE. Tonight I had to go full reserves since he was going first and deployment was against me. With tanks, be careful with multi assaults. if they start slowing you down it's over. I almost lost tionights game because I got really bunched up but pulled it out with 5 assault marines with zero wargear charging a 20 man hellion squad with the duke. I got a good chage and used all my vehicle wrecks to keep half of his guys(and the duke) out of combat and made him fail leadership and got him on the sweeping advance.

 

Just gotta out play them. I think JP spam would do well against them if you can keep him from having multiple squads in combat. I think razor spam has a better chance of knocking all those raiders out of the sky. never let an incubii get near you. I'd rather let groteques get to me than incubii but archons are the worst. Attacking anything they have with less than a 10 man is bad. I got lucky tonight. almost every time your gonna be outnumbered but once the numbers get on your side, you should be fine.

[chaplainmeliadus]

Beware of a few weapons which "remove from play", in addition to the many which cause Instant Death, so don't rely on the Sanguinor to just mash stuff up. Asdrubael vect can be a pain, especially if he has a unit.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I think the key is taking away - or even just reducing - the advantages that the Dark Eldar have; their biggest advantage is their mobility and ability to put hard-hitting power into mobile threats.

 

Minimise their mobility byt making them react to you, if needs be take the fight to them as early as possible; how maneuverable can you be when you're locked in combat?

 

Also, counter threats effectively; have a plan to deal with the effective units in your opponents force, then have another plan when the first one inevitably fails :P

[Angelust]

Terminators cannot sWeeping advance. Did you catch them with another unit?

 

DoA can really cramp DE's mobility advantage when you drop and melta/bolt pistol his transports. After that, your jump packs are winning the mobility contest.

 

Also, DoA screws DE because you can negate their alpha strike damage, which will severely pull some teeth from their army.

 

Librarian dreads and fear the darkness works wonders too.

 

Also FNP against poison helps A LOT.

[bloodancient]

So I've not played the new DE yet but it sounds like if you run TLAC dreads and Baals with JP's and razor squads you got them in the bag. throw in a VV or Sang Gaurd squad with a priest and you really got it. Honestly it sounds interesting I really want a shot at them now.

[Jorre]

I think Astroath could be worth looking at as a hq choice vs dark eldar. Hitting at str6 would make him very handy. Forcing successful invulnsaves to be refilled could make him a bit of a archon assassin as well

[Guroff]

Got a 1500pt game vs a DE player. He runs a tight IG army but is still trying to figure out the nuances to DE. We played a 1000pt game a few weeks ago and I absolutely rolled him... I expect him to be more agile this time as we talked about early game mistakes that were made and I know he will capitalize on the learnings he made from last match up.

 

Here is what I am bringing to the table for our upcoming game.

 

HQ: Librarian with Shield and Might, Stacked with,

Troop1: 5 RAS Marines in a TLLAS Razorback w/ Hunter Missile to support my two Rhinos up the middle

Sergeant is Armed with Power WPN and Meltabombs

 

Troop2: 10 RAS Marines with 2 Meltaguns in Rhino with Hunter Missile

Troop3: 10 RAS Marines with 2 Meltaguns in Rhino with Hunter Missile

 

Fast Atk: 2 Baal Predators with TLAssC, and HVY Bolt spons, and Hunter Missiles

 

Hvy: Whirlwhind

Hvy: 2 Dreadnaughts armed with Missile Launchers and TLAutoC. These will sit back and support the WW from long range for both AT and AI

 

Fast Atk: 1 Typhoon Land Speeder with MM. This is my rapid response vehicle to go after flanking targets or his Jetbikes.

 

Tactics I will try to use:

 

WW and Dreads provide Long range back support while staying at maximum range for turn 1-2 from his mobility.

Rhinos/Razor move up to go for either objectives or annililate targets supported by BAALs. Troops will not leave vehicles unless absolutley neccesary.

Landspeeder can move to outflank or support where needed. Hopefully provides destruction of vehicle prior to dreads/WW shots to allow them to bring templates to bear on Infantry.

Hunter Seekers to negate Ravagers Night shields which subtract 6" from range of wpn.

 

First game went well as I was able to pop his transports and bring template wpns to bear on his infantry at range.

 

Comments welcome.

 

Cheers,

 

G

[Dingareth]

Wow, apparently the best way to beat Dark Eldar is not by getting good with your army, and finding an all comers list that you like, but the best way to beat them is to tailor your list to them. I'll have to remember that next time.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Wow, apparently the best way to beat Dark Eldar is not by getting good with your army, and finding an all comers list that you like, but the best way to beat them is to tailor your list to them. I'll have to remember that next time.

 

That was harsh. :)

[30-Death-Company+Astorath]

To clear things up im an emo and i completely hate DE because they are just too fast... i just get a few shooty units nuff said

[zebanash]

Wow, apparently the best way to beat Dark Eldar is not by getting good with your army, and finding an all comers list that you like, but the best way to beat them is to tailor your list to them. I'll have to remember that next time.

 

 

And apparently Sarcasm promotes constructive debates too eh? *sigh*

 

It does seem that high strength shots do well against DE, my rifledread and baals have been doing quite well against them, my basic list seems to have been doing quite well.

just have to be careful against those witches, they can get nasty in CC

[Spacefrisian]

To clear things up im an emo and i completely hate DE because they are just too fast... i just get a few shooty units nuff said

 

 

Iam a Metal head and i play Dark Eldar... Stereotyping of players is so overrated. (and i hate my chemical romance stupid emo band :tu: )

[Brother Weasel]

Wow, apparently the best way to beat Dark Eldar is not by getting good with your army, and finding an all comers list that you like, but the best way to beat them is to tailor your list to them. I'll have to remember that next time.

 

Not everyone plays all comers lists. some people actually play the same people with limited armies over and over, so they make lists that try to beat each other down with those armies...

 

some people also own a lot of minis and like to field different variations of their armies because they can, and not be stuck using the same 40 minis game after game...

 

you should try remembering that not everyone plays like you, or even wants too, and that it's OK for them to be different then you...

[Dingareth]

Meh, zebannash asked for advice on how to deal with Dark Eldar, and if the answer was as simple as "make sure you have enough Hunter-Killers to kill their transports" then this thread wouldn't have been nearly as helpful as real advice. Weapons with multiple, high strength shots, act as fantastic suppression fire against all armies, and happen to be that much better against Dark Eldar thanks to the +1 due to open-topped.

 

Lastly, Weasel, no not everyone plays like me. However, at the risk of sounding totally conceited and more than a tad bit arrogant, I'm a pretty good player, and I'm pretty sure I have a good understanding of the game. So when someone hops online and asks for advice, I feel confident trying to help. When that help gets undermined by bad advice, I'm not going to hesitate to call it out for what it is.