Space Marines? ... Iron hands

[Wildfire]

For some reason I am resisting painting the missile launcher tube white ... it someone feels more natural in black, however I think I need to do it to make him fit with the rest of the squad.

 

TBH, I really don't like the white bolters. I haven't said anything to this point, but to me it's just too stark a contrast. Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer a metal colour. Mine are all black, it might be a bit much with all the black on the rest of the model.

 

Do they still make the missile launchers with the clips of missiles coming out the top? Those were my favorites. It'd be cool do see one with half of the magazine spent, if you do another missile launcher marine in the future.

 

 

 

So I have a question for you: how much do you intend on playing with these models? Are you building squads and having the weapon options stay the same (I'm guessing no since you want magnets on the sgt), or do you want to be able to change squad options from game to game?

 

I ask this because I've been using a slightly different way of magnatizing models, which might help you fix options without the uglieness that magnatizing arms sometimes generates (at least for me, though you have a much higher skill and motivation level than I). Rather than magnatize the arms, I base my models on metal washers (GSing in the hole). Then put magnets on the underside of my bases, so that I can swap models between bases. I paint the rims of my bases different colours or color patterns. What that means is that I can build 4 missile launcher marines and use them either for 4 seperate tac squads or one dev squad, whichever I feel like. Likewise bolter marines, or just about anything else. It saves modeling one complete set of heavy and special weapon guys for each squad, or magnatizing weapons, or whatever.

 

The thing is that it requires that you not place squad markings on them. In fact, it actually helps you differentiate squads when they're clumped together on a table. I haven't noticed any squad markings on your models (unless I'm overlooking them), although you do seem to be putting a tac symbol on their legs. It would at least allow you to mix and match between tac squads, tho.

 

Just a suggestion. I know this is primarily a modeling thread, but I see no reason you can't model and plan for ease of play at the same time.

[ninjaturtlethug]

@ Master Melta : Use mithril silver, you need high contrast to make it work. Don't "stroke" the brush along the line, instead dab or stutter it along the line to create an irregular edge.

 

I read this quote last night and was amazed that the trick to your weathering was so simple. So I bought a jar of mithril silver today...................

 

I've learned that GW's paints may be far more expensive than hobby store acrylic, but it is definately worth it

[Brother Argos]

TBH, I really don't like the white bolters. I haven't said anything to this point, but to me it's just too stark a contrast. Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer a metal colour. Mine are all black, it might be a bit much with all the black on the rest of the model.

The white bolters grew on me after a while, but more importantly I was trying to capture the look portrayed in the IA:Iron hands, like most military modellers, getting the look right was the most important thing for me.

Do they still make the missile launchers with the clips of missiles coming out the top? Those were my favorites. It'd be cool do see one with half of the magazine spent, if you do another missile launcher marine in the future.

Forgeworld do an old style missile launcher, I have a couple for a Pre-Heresy project I am building up :)

So I have a question for you: how much do you intend on playing with these models? Are you building squads and having the weapon options stay the same (I'm guessing no since you want magnets on the sgt), or do you want to be able to change squad options from game to game?

I have always built all my models to play with them ... I know I appear as a modeller due to the effort I put in, but I actually have four playable 40k armies in my display cabinet as well as Napoleonic, American Civil War and WWII armies.

I ask this because I've been using a slightly different way of magnatizing models, which might help you fix options without the uglieness that magnatizing arms sometimes generates (at least for me, though you have a much higher skill and motivation level than I). Rather than magnatize the arms, I base my models on metal washers (GSing in the hole). Then put magnets on the underside of my bases, so that I can swap models between bases. I paint the rims of my bases different colours or color patterns. What that means is that I can build 4 missile launcher marines and use them either for 4 seperate tac squads or one dev squad, whichever I feel like. Likewise bolter marines, or just about anything else. It saves modeling one complete set of heavy and special weapon guys for each squad, or magnatizing weapons, or whatever.

Ahh .. I have no magnet ugliness at all ... note the same figure below, with multiple weapons

The magnets are 1mm in size and embedded in the figures fist, and the gun never at the arm level. They are impossible to see and mean that for my special weapons figure I only need to paint the figure itself and the weapons it could use. For heavy weapons figures I usually make the chest upwards on the figure detachable and held by a magnets in the legs and torso which cannot be seen either.

The thing is that it requires that you not place squad markings on them. In fact, it actually helps you differentiate squads when they're clumped together on a table. I haven't noticed any squad markings on your models (unless I'm overlooking them), although you do seem to be putting a tac symbol on their legs. It would at least allow you to mix and match between tac squads, tho.

With the magnet solution I have in mind I don't need to swap models between squads, so I should be ok :) ... I haven't finalised my squad marking yet, nor does there seem to be an Iron Hands method for doing so, perhaps like the Iron Snakes the squads are named? I had however considered putting names on the bases and could add a colour symbol to that!

Just a suggestion. I know this is primarily a modeling thread, but I see no reason you can't model and plan for ease of play at the same time.

I completely agree with you ... All my modelling plans have always been made from that view point, as a matter of fact all my vehicles support every possible combination of "wargear" via magnets and modelling .. you would not believe the headaches working all that out causes! But a little bit of effort in thinking ahead gives me options in play without having to make/purchase multiple variants of the same model.

Now my real problem is a lack of opponents!

@ ninjaturtlethug : The simplest solutions are generally the best ;) ... you need a steady and careful hand to do it though!

[Wildfire]

You are obviously much more skilled in magnet usage. My models which use magets in the arms always look like they have magnets in the arms. Probably becuase I'm not much of a hobbiest (tho always an admirer of pretty models)!

 

So, are you going to make the missile marine magnetized?

 

I completely agree with you ... All my modelling plans have always been made from that view point, as a matter of fact all my vehicles support every possible combination of "wargear" via magnets and modelling .. you would not believe the headaches working all that out causes! But a little bit of effort in thinking ahead gives me options in play without having to make/purchase multiple variants of the same model.

 

Oh, I think I would. My method of swapping out models for squads is much easier than working with vehicles!

[Brother Argos]

The top halves of my Hvy Weapon marines are attached to the legs by a big magnet buried in the torso ... I can just pull the top off and replace with another :tu: ... its still not the solution I want though ... its just the weapons and backpacks of devastators are all so interconnected its just easier to pop the torso off than use multiple magnets. Although all it saves is painting the legs and base its still something, although given the iron hands tactical markings on the legs it works reasonably well at a squad level (they become interchangable between dev and tac squads.

 

I have found using small 1mm or 2mm magnets in wrists or fists is a much neater solution than magnetising complete arms in general, the hard one was the Sgt and his powerfist, that took me a long while to work out. But now I have it solved I can reproduce it quickly next time, more pictures of that later when I get around to painting him.

[Aqui]

Why not a small white decal or two from the IH decal sheet, some of those cool Kill skulls in a row???

 

I echo this. To me, I've always felt that the Iron hands are a Chapter that doesn't go in for a great deal of decoration - No fussiness, just efficiency. In their case, I think less is more :)

 

I've been wanting to paint a mini for every First Founding Legion, including the Traitors and because I haven't seen that many IH in person or online, I was struggling on a way to capture them at their best.....

 

I think I've found it now though ^_^

[Brother Argos]

I hope you have Aquilanus :) and your right about the IH .. less is more for them definately!

 

Anyway .. I often get asked about the magnets I use ... to hopefully make it clear here is an advisory I gave to someone recently.

 

The 1mm magnets are sufficient to hold a weapon in the hands of a space marine even when upside down. I would need to "flick" the marine to get to fly off.

 

The 2mm magnets I use in the wrist will hold the weapon and fist on easily and if careful I can lift the figure by the weapon and it stays on. Once again in normal usage a good flick and it will fly off.

 

For holding large weapons on vehicles I use 3mm magnets and they are strong enough to support the weapon without drooping and to lift the vehicle by the weapon if careful. However I have an extra trick I use to make things even better ... there are different thickness's (depths) of magnet as well as diameters. On things like vehicles where the magnet will be embedded in a fairly chunky depth of vehicle body, I use deeper magnets. The thicker the magnet the stronger the magnet, so in some vehicles I have 2 or 3mm magnets which are up to 8mm deep. They can create crazy strengths of magnetic field which will hold weapons VERY tightly.

 

Obviously we are working with plastics here ... if using metals you will need to test things yourself!

[Wildfire]

For holding large weapons on vehicles I use 3mm magnets and they are strong enough to support the weapon without drooping and to lift the vehicle by the weapon if careful. However I have an extra trick I use to make things even better ... there are different thickness's (depths) of magnet as well as diameters. On things like vehicles where the magnet will be embedded in a fairly chunky depth of vehicle body, I use deeper magnets. The thicker the magnet the stronger the magnet, so in some vehicles I have 2 or 3mm magnets which are up to 8mm deep. They can create crazy strengths of magnetic field which will hold weapons VERY tightly.

 

And if you don't want to bother getting a ton of same diameter magnets with different depths, you can simply use stacks of them for the same result. I don't know if it's more expensive or not, but in terms of pure lazyness I like ordering just a couple different sizes.

[Brother Argos]

Wildfire is right .. although you need to glue them together or put them in a tube and affix the tube ... so its a bit more fiddly.

[Wildfire]

Maybe it's just me, but gluing them together just doesn't seem hard to me.

[Brother Argos]

you can simply use stacks of them for the same result.

 

Well you see there is the reason I mentioned gluing them ... you had not. In my modelling logs I try to make things as simple and straightforward as possible rather than rely on guesswork. You had not specified gluing the magnets and as they naturally try and stay together some people who had not used them before might assume they did not need to glue them.

 

But its ok ... all cleared up now :unsure:

[Doghouse]

Fantastic stuff, really loving watch this develop. I see you are making a left hand marine a few pages back, I know a lot of people cut off thumbs and generally reshape the right hand out of the left but the easiest way I've personally found is to use the right hand from a biker marine to grip the bolter.

 

How on earth do you get your transfers to apply so flat? I'm a bit of a newb to transfers and am having problems get around the upper curve of the pad.

[Brother Argos]

I had noticed you were having problems here: -

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/23hm0k3.jpg

 

and here: -

 

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eameqg.jpg

 

This is the process I use: -

 

• Using a sharp scalpel cut as much of the surround off the decal as you can.
  
• Soak the decal till it moves when prodded with a brush.
  
• Using Micro-Sol I wet the surface where the decal is to go.
  
• I then transfer the decal using my brush (I am lazy, most people slide them from the backing sheet).
  
• Once I get the position right, I dab some more Micro-sol on the top surface and leave it for about a minute. This softens the decal and makes it quite delicate at this stage.
  
• At this point you will still find the decal doesn't want to deform, but its close, I then just on the edges of the decal apply a little more micro-sol and smooth them with my brush.
  
• There is a high likely-hood that the edges will "crinkle" at this point ... don't worry its normal and is working and the edges should now have deformed to the curve.
  
• I cheat again for speed on the final stage, some people say you should leave it to dry now, but I just use a lint free cloth to dab the edges flat and dry it quickly.
  

Once dry I run a few filter washes over it to take the high whiteness down a level and then use a matt varnish (Vallejo to be exact) and remove any glossing. I finally run a light coat of black paint around the decal to "Blend" it with the shoulderpad.

 

Hopefully that was helpful?

 

From the look of the second picture your using the chipped "mithril silver" weathering for your Pre-Heresy Iron Hands?

[Master Melta]

Fantastic stuff, really loving watch this develop. I see you are making a left hand marine a few pages back, I know a lot of people cut off thumbs and generally reshape the right hand out of the left but the easiest way I've personally found is to use the right hand from a biker marine to grip the bolter.

 

How on earth do you get your transfers to apply so flat? I'm a bit of a newb to transfers and am having problems get around the upper curve of the pad.

 

 

X2 this. I am about to start decaling for the first time in about 15 years.... :wacko:

[Brother Argos]

You got your wish .. see the list above!

[Master Melta]

a thousand thanks.

 

I hope to have internet ready shots of my lads before monday to show off my progress.

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, that is a massive help. I've always just hand painted icons and markings on never really bothering with transfers so when I thought I'd try and save some time but it didn't go as planned because I hadn't taken into account the curvature of the pad.

I'll try your method though mate and let you know how I get on. :huh:

 

Yeah I just stipple along contact points on the raised parts with bolt gun metal then give it a wash of either badab black or ogryn flesh to get my chipped effect. Pretty simple and hopefully quick because I have a bucket load of these guys to get through. Won't be as nice as yours though, love the detailing you are putting into the bases.

[Brother Argos]

Its been a weekend for daughters and family, but I did work on the Missile Launcher some more :(

First off I was asked to show the Puppetwar heads on a marine body to show "fit" ... I think they fit pretty well to be honest .. what do you think?

Moving on to the Missile Launcher, I finished the base off in a night of effort and rusty walls. I tried lots of different techniques with the bullet holes but I think I finally nailed it. You should also notice the tread on the bottom of the space marine boot made from plasticard and the rear of the wall where the impact marks of the bullets on the other side show through.

Obviously there is still more to do ...

• Servo Arm
  
• Rust weathering on the marine
  
• Decals on Shoulderpads, Purity Seals and Missile Launcher.
  
• Tidy up
  

I will be doing most if not all of that tonight while I watch Star Wars II with my daughter Amelia (the 10yr old).

One thing I was thinking of for the next squad will be "making" the room they are in and ensuring all the flooring styles "fit better" rather than just being grouped by the "rusty floor" theme. I think it would also make for a wicked diorama with a squad of marines under fire in a space hulk.

[Machine God]

Very Cool picture SoA.

 

Only one thing on the Missile Launcher Dev, he is putting the missile in the wrong end.

[Brother Argos]

I think you will find they can be rear loaded, certainly in my version of 40k (although possibly not in yours), especially as I opened up the end of the launcher to allow it! ... but discussing how things work in 40k is all conjecture anyway :)

[Cyprus]

Dear god, I feel like a newb. These models are just fantastic! They all have this.... realism ( ironic, the marines are set WAYYY in the future) that just makes it pop. The bases are sweet, the rust, the vents, and the blood all look fantstic. Shame that you can't find opponents though ;) . They would look awesome on the table.

[Brother Argos]

He took a long while and quite a bit of fiddling, but finally the heavy weapons marine is complete ...

The rust effects took a while to work out, but in the end a small amount of downward stroke got the feeling I wanted into the rust on the wall, it bugged me for ages, but I had repeated a similar technique to how I had done the flooring and it just felt wrong. All it took was some simple soft brushwork to add a small feeling of downward movement (gravity), the change is hardly noticeable now it feels right.

It was from the right hand side of the figure I was most worried about balance ... there were a couple of times when the damned marine would just not sit right on the base but in the end it worked!

There is shading on the white tube ... but no amount of coaxing gets decent white shading out of my camera (always an excuse to upgrade), I tried Vallejo's pale wash and it worked nicely, it is specially built for pale colours/white. I just wish I could actually show you!

You might also notice I have "upped" my photo technique a little ... for ease of production I have setup a mini-studio next to me and have a wifi-card in my camera to send straight to my computer. This means I can leave it all setup and just pop a figure in for its shot! ... More on all this later though ^_^

He took way longer than I wanted and slowed me down a bit, but the result seems worth it to me ... I hope you like him?

[ninjaturtlethug]

He took way longer than I wanted and slowed me down a bit, but the result seems worth it to me ... I hope you like him?

 

He's outstanding, great work

[Master Melta]

Yeah, he's killer.

 

You went with the white tube, it's great as well.

 

Well done.

 

What's next and who is the guy with the head? Sgt #2 HQ, Random marine?

 

Are you building a point value army here?

[Brother Argos]

Here is a current group shot ..

If you want to see closer there is a MUCH larger version here!

Not the best composition or lighting I could manage but at least it shows the work :)