DC Land Raider or 2 DC Razorbacks?

[Korloth Darkwolf]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm a noob 5th and BA player (played 2nd, 3rd with DA) and have a bit of a dilemma so looking for a bit of advice.

 

I'm using a DC only list and need to inject some firepower into it. I appreciate that a DC only list is not everyone's cup of tea but I want to get one that works most of the time.

 

My local gaming group plays 1500 points so please keep that in mind.

 

I'm currently running 2 rhinos and 1 TLLC Razorback as transports but every game I've played I've struggled with hurting anything heavier than a bike and my transports all end up popped.

 

So in an effort to inject some staying power and heavy fire into the list I've decided to play around with the transports.

 

So my question is which is the better way to go:

 

1 Land Raider (any variant) with chaplain and full to capacity of DC

 

or

 

2 Razorbacks (any turret choice), 1 with a chaplain and 1 without, plus full DC troops.

 

My local gaming group has marines (chaos and loyalist), orks, eldar, necrons, tyranids and guard.

[Laxnumba7]

Hello! I play a Death Company list myself. I only use them at 1850 though. Here is my list, and from there, you can maybe get some idea.

 

 

HQ-

Astorath the Grim

 

Elite-

None

 

Troop-

10x Death Company(5x Power Weapon, 2x Power Fist, 2x Infernus Pistol)

 

10x Death Company(5x Power Weapon, 2x Power Fist, 2x Infernus Pistol); Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost.

 

*note* the Power Fist and Infernus Pistol are on the same model. Also, just to be clear, it is 10 Death Company PLUS Lemartes (total 11 models)

 

DC Dreadnought: Blood Talons, Magna-Grapple

 

DC Dreadnought: Blood Fists, Magna-Grapple

 

Heavy-

 

Stormraven Gunship(TL Multi-Melta, TL Lascannon, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor)

 

Stormraven Gunship(TL Multi-Melta, TL Plasma Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor)

 

 

 

Alright, so a little explanation on my playstyle. I put Astorath with the 10m Group, in the Stormraven with Plasma Cannon, and with the Blood Fist Dreadnought. Lemartes plus Blood Talon Dreadnought in the Lascannon Stormraven. decently armored, immune to melta, assault vehicle, fast skimmer, Power of the Machine Spirit, can transport 12 models, and jump infantry count as 2.... so 10x DC with Astorath/Lemartes counts as a total of 12 guys. Add the DC dreadnought, you've got the strongest attack force I have ever encountered. Having the ability to flat out, even if you get shot down on turn 1, you have 10x DC + a DC Dreanought in front of their army. sure it's out of control, but its right there. I've had a good amount of success with this list once I learned how to play with it. It's an extremely aggressive play style. More aggressive than Khârn and nothing but berserkers. Now I know that Stormravens are hard to come by if you dont wanna make your own, so the next alternative is using Land Raiders instead, but they are more expensive points wise, so you might have to change things around. I hope this helps you a little bit!

[Korloth Darkwolf]

Cheers for the reply.

 

I'm waiting for the release of the stormraven as I have neither the skill nor the time to scratchbuild one. Until then I need to make do with what I have / get given for christmas.

 

Would a Raider be able to take more hits (and put out more shots) than 2 razorbacks. I've got the turret options to field TLLC, TLHB, TLAC or TLHF (I'm waiting on some plasma guns to make a Las/TLPlas turret) on 2 Razorbacks but feel a Raider would do more damage.

[syypher]

Hmm. Strictly only DC + Transports is what your looking for Korloth? If not...

 

What you can do is since you want to put them in transports you can just keep it cheap and put them in Rhinos/RBs and pick whatever anti-infantry weapon you want. Then shield wall everything with Predators like Baal or Heavy Las Predators. Since your problem is killing anything stronger than a bike I'll give you two suggestions...there will be a bunch more other options but since I'm use to playing a fairly Mechanized BA army I'll help you out like that:

 

3x Baal Predators + Make all your transports Razorbacks with TL AsC. (Assault Cannons)

This gives you a lot of Str 6 shots to take out light-medium armor vehicles. I mean A LOT. That's 24x TL AsC shots with rending on 6's for those pesky vehicles. You move DC in while tearing stuff open then you move your Baal Predator wall apart for your RBs to get through and let your DC wreck.

 

3x Heavy Predators with Las Sponsoons. This will give you some better chances against enemy AV14 if you see a lot of that at your LGS. This will provide a wall also for a little while but these tanks usually prefer chilling in the back and just shooting.

 

 

This may seem like a huge point investment...around 1/3rd of your points...but if you run a LR then run 2 of them. That way you at least have some back up to continue moving forward in case one gets destroyed. That will give u about 1,000 points to spend on your DC, Chaplain, Reclusiarch or whatever. Should be more than enough to kill them up and take 1 Razorback still. I would also suggest making the Razorback a Heavy Flamer and move your LR's up and keep your RB behind them out of LoS. Should be easy with 2x Land Raiders. Then when you are close enough you can flame things with it.

[4RC71C FOXX]

Would a Raider be able to take more hits (and put out more shots) than 2 razorbacks. I've got the turret options to field TLLC, TLHB, TLAC or TLHF (I'm waiting on some plasma guns to make a Las/TLPlas turret) on 2 Razorbacks but feel a Raider would do more damage.

 

Well the raider being AV14 means only weapons of strength 8 or more (or those with special rules such as melta/lance) can even think about damaging it, therefore alot of weapons that could damage the razor will not be able to damage the raider, and AV14 all around can be very hard to destroy without the right tools-ie melta or chainfists etc.

 

However the thing to remember is that the Raider is a single vehicle and can be destroyed by a series of lucky rolls, a single lascannon could destroy it on the first turn with good rolls, whereas two razors would require at least two weapons to take out both. So its hard to say definitively that one option will be more survivable than the other.

 

There is also the raider's size, which means it is harder to gain a cover save for-which can make a difference in some situations-the majority of weapons in the game need LoS to shoot.

 

I believe alot of opponents will put alot of attention on a Land Raider full of DC, so it can be used as a fire magnet to protect your other forces as well.

 

In terms of fire output, this is probably fairly similar-on the move the razors will be more flexible in their ability to target more than one enemy unit when moving at more than 6" (while the raider can only do this -via its PoTMS upto 6", then it can only fire 1 gun) and I imagine that if playing DC you want to get them into the fight as quick as possible. The Razor weapons and Raider variant chosen will obivously affect this, and so you should take this into account-do you want an anti-tank unit to pop open transports for your DC to assault, or do you want to soften up a tough target before the DC charge in and finish it off?

 

Another thing to consider is the Raiders Assault Vehicle Rule, which allows you to move the raider 12", deploy your marines upto 2" from the access point and assault 6" in one turn, while the razor mounted ones have to get into position a turn early as they cannot assault out of a transport that has moved.

 

FOXX

[Korloth Darkwolf]

Hmm. Strictly only DC + Transports is what your looking for Korloth? If not...

 

At present I'm looking at DC only (with the possible exception of Stormravens). I know that I can get more flexibility if I throw in non DC elements but right now I wish to get a working DC list. It will be part of an eventual 6000pt fast and heavy strike force (lots of tanks and Stormravens) but I would like it to be competitive in its own right first.

 

Well the raider being AV14 means only weapons of strength 8 or more (or those with special rules such as melta/lance) can even think about damaging it, therefore alot of weapons that could damage the razor will not be able to damage the raider, and AV14 all around can be very hard to destroy without the right tools-ie melta or chainfists etc.

 

However the thing to remember is that the Raider is a single vehicle and can be destroyed by a series of lucky rolls, a single lascannon could destroy it on the first turn with good rolls, whereas two razors would require at least two weapons to take out both. So its hard to say definitively that one option will be more survivable than the other.

 

There is also the raider's size, which means it is harder to gain a cover save for-which can make a difference in some situations-the majority of weapons in the game need LoS to shoot.

 

I believe alot of opponents will put alot of attention on a Land Raider full of DC, so it can be used as a fire magnet to protect your other forces as well.

 

In terms of fire output, this is probably fairly similar-on the move the razors will be more flexible in their ability to target more than one enemy unit when moving at more than 6" (while the raider can only do this -via its PoTMS upto 6", then it can only fire 1 gun) and I imagine that if playing DC you want to get them into the fight as quick as possible. The Razor weapons and Raider variant chosen will obivously affect this, and so you should take this into account-do you want an anti-tank unit to pop open transports for your DC to assault, or do you want to soften up a tough target before the DC charge in and finish it off?

 

Another thing to consider is the Raiders Assault Vehicle Rule, which allows you to move the raider 12", deploy your marines upto 2" from the access point and assault 6" in one turn, while the razor mounted ones have to get into position a turn early as they cannot assault out of a transport that has moved.

 

FOXX

 

There isn't a huge amount of AV14 but the numbers of grav tanks and the like is quite high in some armies. Some of them would certainly try to take out the Raider first instead of the Rhino chassis

 

Its the ability to assault out of the Raider which is attractive. At present I have to move up one turn, deploy and assault the turn after. With a Raider I can move, deploy and assault in one turn.

 

The local gaming groups tables are approx 4" x 4" so I can in theory reach most things within 1-2 turns, also the tables are pretty open so getting cover is not really possible.

 

I started with a TLLC Razor and 2 Rhinos, but one heavy weapon shot per turn wasn't doing enough (especially as in one game it missed 4 turns in a row!). I have changed this to 1 TLAC Razor, 1 TLHB Razor and a Rhino (the points saved on the DC inside could give me an extra Chaplain or some infernus pistols)

 

However I can't decide whether or not to swap the Rhino for another Razorback or drop the Rhino and a Razorback for a Crusader/Redeemer. I love the idea of a DC Crusader and maybe my love of the model is clouding my army list choices :)

 

Maybe I'll just buy both (or hint for christmas) and have a play.

[Dingareth]

At present I'm looking at DC only (with the possible exception of Stormravens). I know that I can get more flexibility if I throw in non DC elements but right now I wish to get a working DC list. It will be part of an eventual 6000pt fast and heavy strike force (lots of tanks and Stormravens) but I would like it to be competitive in its own right first.

 

A Death Company army is never going to be competitive on it own. Truthfully, it's hard to think of a way to fit Death Company into a competitive army at all, so I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. That said, onto the real advice: at 1500, you either want 2 Land Raiders or 4+ Razorbacks with TLAC to be competitive.