What did Prospero Burns Contribute?

[augustmanifesto]

I really like Abnett's work and enjoyed reading Prospero Burns, don't get me wrong. However, I feel the content of the work relative to its length was rather lacking. Wanting to remain open to the possibility that I missed something or am thick-headed -- and genuinely interested in your thoughts, of course -- my open question is: what did the work contribute to the series and the 30k/40k universe?

 

The work seemed to make two contributions:

 

1. The Character of the space Wolves was developed, in particular their culture and conception of themselves as executioners. But there actually seemed to be relatively little new information here. For example, one of the more substantial themes explored was that the Space Wolves are thoroughly disciplined and their ostensible barbarism and impetuousness is in appearance only, perhaps even an intentional deception -- but we already knew this from Thousand Sons.

 

2. Chaos / Horus (the daemon sequence in the end seemed ambiguous as to the agent) was involved in orchestrating the confrontation behind the Thousand Sons and the Wolves. For my own part I already figured as much but I'm unsure whether this was already mentioned in previous background or novels.

 

Relative to the page length and what we already knew, these contributions seem rather light. The first adds depth to the character of the Space Wolves and Russ -- and depth is important -- but not very much, it seemed to me. The second contributes to the arc of the Heresy to be sure, but was the only such contribution and was itself a pretty light revelation, I think. Additionally, it was presented in a very dull, even misplaced way, i.e. "hey, Daemon-thing from no-where appears and decides to tell a guy about some stuff just, you know, because."

 

Thoughts? Admonitions?

[Scribe]

Just finished it myself, and thats the same conclusion I came to. Character/Culture was added to the Wolves, which is great, and Chaos was playing a long game with the spy. Thats about it.

[Ethrion]

I think Prospero Burns gave us a much better background behind the Thousand Sons / Space Wolves conflict. What we now know is Chaos had much more of an influence and direct control over events. The Primordial Annihilator hadn't just been using Magnus and then seeing how that would turn out leaving other events and players to chance. It had been orchestrating every aspect of events to make sure an exact outcome occurred. The fact that Chaos had been everywhere and so close to the Emperor Himself on Nikaea shows just how involved the Chaos Gods were - not just the standard: "we're controlling Horus and our plan is very one dimensional".

 

The other major revelation was a quite open admission from Russ that he had been called upon at least once before to censure another Legion and/or Primarch. We had already been given teasers that this had been the case but it is as good as confirmed in Prospero Burns. Yes, it is written so that Hawser couldn't have been sure Russ was joking or not, but the Primarch had never lied about other facts before, he had been jovial but never lied so it's safe to say we now know basically what happened to at least one of the missing Legions.

 

And finally, on a side note we got told of Bjorn.

[ANCIENT FALOR]

It was a good read. I also came away a little disappointed though. I really thought we would get more on the battle of prospero. Since the book is called " prospero burns ". It would of been nice to maybe develop a group of 1k sons and weave it with the wolves and inevitable events. I liked the expanding of the wolves. It was good as I said. It dosent come close to. TFH, 1k Sons, or Dans earlier HH work.

[splashwaterfalls]

I have to say, I was fairly disappointed with Prospero Burns. The cultural parts about the Space Wolves aside, it was a long buildup to not a whole lot of action. I also would have liked to see more of Russ. What I read I enjoyed, and it seemed he was being set up to be a fairly complex and interesting character, he was never really developed and we didn't even get to see him in battle.

[Sabadin]

It also indirectly confirms that the Wolves played a part in the missing legions and were more or less intended for that purpose.

[nightlordsrock3564]

i didn't like prospero burns, it didn't make sense

[Inache]

I loved it, gave a much more interesting look at the wolves than Ragnar (not to say that the Ragnar books aren't also very good). The look at the Wolves culture, tactics, and Heresy era beliefs are very interesting. And as Etherion and Sabadin pointed out the HH reveals are massive in their implications. Not only did Chaos have it's little muttie paws all over the 1k Sons fall and, as it seems, unforseen but hoped for turn. Also it gives credence to the notion that Big E knew about the Heresy. There's no way he didn't know about that upper tier tussel. Plus the Wolves involvement in the lost legions' dissolution is a nice tidbit, same with Bjorn. I straight up laughed when I read that. Overall it's a nice addition to the mythos, but as the other side of an already told story there isn't too much more to add.

[Marshal Rohr]

It returned the Space Wolves to the badasses of 40K as opposed to humanitarian space marines with a wolf fetish.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It returned the Space Wolves to the badasses of 40K as opposed to humanitarian space marines with a wolf fetish.

 

Black and White. :D

 

Surely you don't think they are badder than Templars?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

It returned the Space Wolves to the badasses of 40K as opposed to humanitarian space marines with a wolf fetish.

 

Black and White. :D

 

Surely you don't think they are badder than Templars?

 

You heard what the man said.

 

The Space Wolves are the O.G. of 40k badasses, you Black Templars are the diet coke of badasses. you taste simular, but your not the real thing.

 

WLK

[Marshal Rohr]

Black Templars are not badass. You heard right. I said it.

 

 

We are sinister knights who's ends justify our means, no matter who gets hurt in the way. Its so badass, its beyond Badass. Its indescribable.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Black Templars are not badass. You heard right. I said it.

 

 

We are sinister knights who's ends justify our means, no matter who gets hurt in the way. Its so badass, its beyond Badass. Its indescribable.

 

didnt you just describe it? the first sentence seems to describe it.

 

WLK

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It returned the Space Wolves to the badasses of 40K as opposed to humanitarian space marines with a wolf fetish.

 

Black and White. :D

 

Surely you don't think they are badder than Templars?

 

You heard what the man said.

 

The Space Wolves are the O.G. of 40k badasses, you Black Templars are the diet coke of badasses. you taste simular, but your not the real thing.

 

WLK

 

Says he who has a Salamanders force.

Grimaldus "Let us slayeth the Ork Chieftain"

Salamander "Nay, the flock doesn't produce good wool when the shepherd is away"

Grimaldus "..........." *I wonder how good a mace this fellow would make?*

"I'd still be disappointed with your performance"

Salamander "Huh?"

Grimaldus "Just thinking out aloud" >activates crozius< *At least you do the job you were made for, old faithful*

 

Go hug a mortal, Greenie.

 

Black Templars are not badass. You heard right. I said it.

 

We are sinister knights who's ends justify our means, no matter who gets hurt in the way. Its so badass, its beyond Badass. Its indescribable.

 

didnt you just describe it? the first sentence seems to describe it.

 

WLK

 

He is alluding to it. Hinting at it. Giving a taste of it. You know, like describing beer as delicious. Or Orange Mocha Frappuccinos as Blood Angel. It gives you the idea of it, but that is it at best.

[Corsair]

Personally, I'm loving the extra look into life on so-called unified Terra, which is actually pretty unique as far as the HH books go so far.

 

Just wanted to throw that in since it seems I am the only person on Earth who liked the main character and his experiences as more than just a vehicle to describe the Space Wolves.

[SCC]

I really like Abnett's work and enjoyed reading Prospero Burns, don't get me wrong. However, I feel the content of the work relative to its length was rather lacking. Wanting to remain open to the possibility that I missed something or am thick-headed -- and genuinely interested in your thoughts, of course -- my open question is: what did the work contribute to the series and the 30k/40k universe?

Umm, it was enjoyable to read? Why must the book contribute in some significant way to the 'verse? It was a good read, that's really all I ask from a BL book, or indeed any pulp SF, it's often too much, so I'll take it where I can get it to be frank :lol:

[augustmanifesto]

Stupid "whose is bigger, Black Templar's or Space Wolves'...." aside, some good posts.

 

Personally, I'm loving the extra look into life on so-called unified Terra, which is actually pretty unique as far as the HH books go so far.

 

Just wanted to throw that in since it seems I am the only person on Earth who liked the main character and his experiences as more than just a vehicle to describe the Space Wolves.

 

I think that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. Yes, insight into Terra post-unification adds considerable value because the political setting of Terra is both crucial to the universe and traditionally neglected by background material.

 

Actually, I would really like a book that dealt this material primarily. A book about Malcador would be an effective way to do so. Also, learning more about Malcador would be great. Hire me Black Library! I'll do it!

 

Umm, it was enjoyable to read? Why must the book contribute in some significant way to the 'verse? It was a good read, that's really all I ask from a BL book, or indeed any pulp SF, it's often too much, so I'll take it where I can get it to be frank msn-wink.gif

 

Being an enjoyable read, as I noted, is important, no doubt. But this raises an interesting question: What makes a good book? One thing, I think, which makes a good book is a good story. One thing that makes a good story is that it tells the reader things that the reader finds important. While the book did tell important things, I suppose my global point is that for 400+ pages, it was very light on important things.

 

What do you think? I see this being an interesting conversation because readers are bound to consider "important" differently. I have my own thoughts, but I'll keep this post short and come back to this point later if others are interested in pursuing it :)

[Simonius]

I really enjoyed it too. Yes it wasn't action heavy, but I think that's not a bad thing.

 

The Heresy novels (better ones anyway) have a tendency to be more thoughtful things than the standard 40K fare - they're not just pulp SF, they rise above - hence why they are selling so well and now consistently making the New York Times bestsellers list, this thought provoking (and more epic story telling) approach appeals to a wider SF audience.

 

Maybe as I'm a slightly older reader I want it to be a bit more cerebral and a bit less shooty, killy death in space.

 

As I said I really enjoyed this book (finished in 2 days), probably slightly more than TFH.

[eaglefists13]

It added some but Abnett isnt the best to be doing space marine books.

Whereas his books have been fantastic reads they at times become unenjoyable as they focus on too much subterfuge and secret theatrics and the whole books always seems to be leading to an "unexpected plot twist" revealed at the end.

That the first half of the book makes a struggle to read and comes together in the second half but even so was it worth it with what we got in return. I'm not yet sold and hope that Abnett is limited in what he does in the future, the whole point was fleshing out the whole 30k universe and heresy not taking stuff away.

If i purchased an imperial guard book and it was all about space marines then i would be a bit miffed. I think the book whilst good has missed its chance and point. Stick to marines and character build them flesh out the lesser known legions, like Legion where the book skims over the Alphas and concentrates on Grammaticus and the Chilliads??

Plus all the stuff we have been given in fluff over the years was either ret-conned or not even brought up, kinda makes me think that if we get the last book and Abnett does it he will skim over all that we have held as lore like the defence of the spaceport and eternity gates and the Phalanx crash and will leave us wanting more which sounds about right ££££££££

[Darkchild130]

Didnt Mr Abnett once say that he didnt enjoy writing Space Marine characters as they dont experience the full range of human emotions etc and are therefore one dimensional and dull (or words to that effect).

 

It doesn't surprise me that he concentrates on his human characters when writing Astartes fiction, he is playing to his strengths.

 

Darkchild

[Balthamal]

I think it all comes down to a matter of personal opinion and just what individual people want from the HH series. I myself want an in depth look at each of the 18 legions in 1 form or another. I can accept some legions being given more air time than others (Luna Wolves obviously) but I want at least one book specifically aimed at a particular legion before the grand finale when most of them get their time in the limelight; the Siege of Terra.

 

Back on topic, I think the book added a hell of a lot of character to the series overall not just the wolves or the 1k sons. The duoligy (thats how i see the two books, flip sides of the same thing) give great insights into how both legions see themselves, and also how they're perceived in general. Same applies to TFH. If the books to come follow in this vein i shall be one happy chappy

 

And as far as Bjorn goes, I didn't stop laughing for 10 minutes after finishing the book. Was very good to see

[aleksandr]

Unfortunately, this seems to be one of Abnett's weaker works. A shame too, as I really like the bulk of his work.

 

The entire first half of the book was extremely slow. "Sons of Dorn" (probably the worst 40K book ever written) slow. It takes a long time before the reader has any idea of what is actually going on.

 

The title of the book was extremely misleading. A very small fraction of the book is devoted to the battle of Prospero. Granted, there is nothing wrong with beefing up Wolf material, but I wish I knew this going into it.

 

As for the comments regarding Bear/Bjorn, I agree that it is likely he is Bjorn the Fell-Handed that we know as a dreadnought in the current timeline, however, I don't think there is really enough confirmation to say this with 100% assurance. The name Bjorn is likely *very* common amongst the Fenrisian tribes, much as it is a common name amongst the nordic peoples of Earth.

[Brannick]

I think it all comes down to a matter of personal opinion and just what individual people want from the HH series. I myself want an in depth look at each of the 18 legions in 1 form or another. I can accept some legions being given more air time than others (Luna Wolves obviously) but I want at least one book specifically aimed at a particular legion before the grand finale when most of them get their time in the limelight; the Siege of Terra.

 

Back on topic, I think the book added a hell of a lot of character to the series overall not just the wolves or the 1k sons. The duoligy (thats how i see the two books, flip sides of the same thing) give great insights into how both legions see themselves, and also how they're perceived in general. Same applies to TFH. If the books to come follow in this vein i shall be one happy chappy

 

And as far as Bjorn goes, I didn't stop laughing for 10 minutes after finishing the book. Was very good to see

 

 

What he said.

[Captain Tezdal]

Didn't really enjoy it all, then again all this new stuff about Space Wolves all seemed kind of forced, but hey...was still better then Battle for the Abyss.

[FishSpit]

I'm going to come out and say I thought it was the best book. true, it didn't really give us all that much "new content" but seriously guys, it was a F***king amazing work of fiction and I love it for what it was.