IA: Steel Wardens

[Blacklight]

Honestly The only reason I don't like Dread-heavy chapters in the fluff is not only their inherent problems with psychological stability, but that it really doesn't add much to the character of the chapter in my opinion and the entire process of justification of the dreads (which isn't unfeasible) just creates more problems than the uniqueness or amount of character it brings to the table.

 

If they have more dreads than average because of their character trait of "X" then that's all well and good. To base your chapter around the dreads exclusively like this I think though is counter productive.

 

I can see what you mean, Ydalir. Hopefully I can turn you around; I want to make dreadnoughts integral to chapter life, not just tacking them on because I want them to have more than the norm. I didn't feel comfortable just saying "they have more dreadnoughts" just because I wanted to, I wanted there to be a legitimate reason behind them having more of them. Having their chapter master be the first dreadnought in the chapter and moving from there will hopefully make things believable. Just have to wait and see :pinch:

 

why not necrons for the enemys, while they are overall new force to the galaxy they have been around for alot longer, they are tough, and u can also have it they been at it for years, so while other chapters and ordos thought your chapter was going crazy attacking ghosts in the darkness as it was so when the necrons arravied no one really thought to connect it with the enemy u been hunting and warning others about

 

sorry about takeing so long to reply after that place keeper, but someone toke my idea so i needed a new one

 

I did toy with Necrons a bit, I wasn't sure how active they would be at the time though and like I said I wanted them to be a reasonable force not long after the chapter's founding, so that they could reform into a dreadnought-oriented chapter early on. Depending on the founding, though, Necrons could be a conceivable enemy. They're more than powerful enough to wipe out the chapter master and his entourage, and they'd be a logical enemy to crusade against. The chapter could roam from world to world following up rumors of Necrons.

 

Nice idea, man :)

[Blacklight]

Had a few updates. I went into some more detail on whether or not I was going to make them fleet-based or not, or the possibility of making them partially fleet-based with a monastery on a planet. They probably wouldn't technically call the planet a 'homeworld', more of a good launching point for crusades against whichever enemy I choose to be their 'chosen' foe. Which, at this point, is leaning towards Necron.

 

Edit: I completely messed up the math on guessing the years between the Foundings. Nevermind this section! :P

 

Name-wise, I'm leaning Steel Legion. Steel for the dreadnoughts, obviously, and Legion because it sort of alludes to the increased number of said dreadnoughts. Steel could also be a reference to their original purpose of defending against (most likely) Ork incursions.

 

I also put up a pair of color schemes. I'm partial to the grays myself, but since I'm not sure just how many models I'll have with the tabards, I'm considering going with the red. The grays fit the Steel Legion name a bit better, but I'm a fan of the red on black color. Possibly make the kneepads gray, with one or both of the shoulderpads red.

 

Also, did some thinking on how they could have acquired additional dreadnought... suits? I think? Anyways, I don't want to go with a cheesy story and say they just found them. I've considered having them be found on a Space Hulk that was a conglomeration of old Space Marine ships that got lost in the Warp - but then again, that sounds sort of cheesy as well. Any thoughts on that one? Or should I just take the route of not even mentioning how? I've seen that solution suggested a few times on here; if it's too much trouble to explain, probably best to either 1) fix it, or 2) not mention it. It's not a gratuitously large number of dreads, I think a number we hit on earlier was in the 30-35 range compared to a 20-26 average. Might aim for 40, but that all depends on the number of companies/crusades.

 

I think that's all I threw on here today. Hopefully I'll get the more necessary bits of the Origins section nailed down so I can start writing that, I'm trying to tie dates down so they mesh properly. Now that I got the dates of the Foundings estimated, it should be a wee bit smoother to sort things out.

 

Anyone have some tips? Thanks for C&C, guys!

[CKO]

I wouldnt use steel legion as the name as I believe that name is already used by a famous imperial guard regiment. Just keep thinking about it you will eventually come up with a name you like.

 

One way you can justify having a large amount of dreadnaughts is to have a time/period in your chapter history when no dreads died or if they did die your chapter was able to recover them. If they were able to not lose a dreadnaught for 200-300 years(estimating) combine that with the usual amount they get from forge worlds, then they should eventually have a larger stockpile than usual.

[NightrawenII]

Name-wise, I'm leaning Steel Legion. Steel for the dreadnoughts, obviously, and Legion because it sort of alludes to the increased number of said dreadnoughts. Steel could also be a reference to their original purpose of defending against (most likely) Ork incursions.

Steel Legion is name of Imperial Guard Regiment from Armaggedon.

 

I think a number we hit on earlier was in the 30-35 range compared to a 20-26 average. Might aim for 40, but that all depends on the number of companies/crusades.

Ultramarines have 26 Dreads

Blood Angels have 31 Dreads

 

These are 1st Founding Chapters, there is NO WAY how could younger Chapter have more Dreadnoughts than them. You will be lucky if you have more than 20 of them.

[Ace Debonair]

I think a number we hit on earlier was in the 30-35 range compared to a 20-26 average. Might aim for 40, but that all depends on the number of companies/crusades.

Ultramarines have 26 Dreads

Blood Angels have 31 Dreads

 

These are 1st Founding Chapters, there is NO WAY how could younger Chapter have more Dreadnoughts than them. You will be lucky if you have more than 20 of them.

I'd have to agree - successor chapters very seldom have more of anything than first founding chapters. The UM, BA and others have quite the legacy, and the AdMech can get away with stinting supplies to successors a lot easier than the original legions.

 

That said, if you make certain your chapter has a good relationship with the AdMech, then roughly 20 dreads becomes quite a believable figure. Of course, you'd have to acquire them slowly and over a good period of time, but still.

At least, as far as I am concerned - although I could be way off course. :)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I think a number we hit on earlier was in the 30-35 range compared to a 20-26 average. Might aim for 40, but that all depends on the number of companies/crusades.

Ultramarines have 26 Dreads

Blood Angels have 31 Dreads

 

These are 1st Founding Chapters, there is NO WAY how could younger Chapter have more Dreadnoughts than them. You will be lucky if you have more than 20 of them.

I'd have to agree - successor chapters very seldom have more of anything than first founding chapters. The UM, BA and others have quite the legacy, and the AdMech can get away with stinting supplies to successors a lot easier than the original legions.

 

That said, if you make certain your chapter has a good relationship with the AdMech, then roughly 20 dreads becomes quite a believable figure. Of course, you'd have to acquire them slowly and over a good period of time, but still.

At least, as far as I am concerned - although I could be way off course. :P

 

Dreadnoughts are one of those mystical "we barely know how to build them any more" pieces of equipment that only certain Forge worlds can manufacture, as I recall.

 

Add that to the "there is no way in the Eye that you can muster more than a First Founding Chapter" and you get a big no no. Remember, there is a hierarchy in terms of Chapters and replenishment; the Iron Hands particularly and the First Founding in general are more likely to get replenishment than any other Chapter if both have the same needs.

[CKO]

I think he should avoid the specifics with the amount of dreads and use statements such as, "they haave more dreads than usual for a X founding chapter".

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I think he should avoid the specifics with the amount of dreads and use statements such as, "they have more dreads than usual for a X founding chapter".

 

I agree, stating numbers of anything categorically in a summary-piece like an IA is almost always disruptive to the article as a whole.

 

 

 

Fixed your typo too. :wallbash:

 

*Edit*

 

Also, please rename them. The Armageddon Steel Legion is one of the (coolest) most well known Imperial Guard Regiments in the entire Imperium, if not the rest of the galaxy at large as well.

[Blacklight]

Whoops, my bad there guys.

 

*Carefully removes foot from stepped-on toes.* :P

 

I didn't even think to check Imperial Guard names to make sure it hadn't been used there - I checked the Space Marine chapter name list and didn't see it there. Leaning towards Steel Hands or Iron Legion, maybe Steel Crusaders or something like that. It's so so tempting to name them the Argent Crusaders or the Argent Crusade, but I know for a fact I'll be flogged and purged by the Inquisition for blatantly ripping off World of Warcraft.

 

I think he should avoid the specifics with the amount of dreads and use statements such as, "they haave more dreads than usual for a X founding chapter".

 

Based from the issues you have all brought up I'll just avoid bringing up numbers and just imply they have a larger number. I'm willing to bet gratuitous amounts of money I'll never own more than 5-10 dreadnoughts, let alone 20.

 

Also, please rename them. The Armageddon Steel Legion is one of the (coolest) most well known Imperial Guard Regiments in the entire Imperium, if not the rest of the galaxy at large as well.

 

Like I said, total accident. Sorry once again :lol: And I must agree, even though I'm not much of a Guard fan, they do look very awesome.

 

And for a progress update, I expanded on their Origins by leaps and bounds yesterday. TheBrain/Mind Mapping tool worked wonders for helping me organize my thoughts. I ended up having them be in the 22nd Founding, originally a chapter to prevent Orks from moving in the Segmentum Tempestus. They get relocated in around 668.M40, 2 years after the first Necron contact, to the Segmentum Ultima. They eventually deploy to Naogeddon to investigate the vanishing Explorator teams. The 2nd Company gets entirely destroyed by Necrons, and when 1st and 3rd Companies follow them to find what happened, the Necrons attack en masse and take down a large number of 1st Company veterans and 3rd Company marines. They manage to recover the fallen chapter master and his entourage and inter them in dreadnoughts, and when the chapter master awakes, the whole chapter is so enraged at their losses they declare a crusade similar to that of the Black Templar on the Necrons. It also starts them on the way towards becoming a dreadnought-led chapter, and the chapter master creating the Codex Infinitum (or whatever I finally decide I'm calling it).

 

I'm pretty happy with it so far, there's of course more detail in my full version but I'm going to definitely have to pare it down some otherwise I'll be totally annihilating the 2,000 word Origin rule. Depending on how motivated I am tonight I might have another 2,000 words to add to it.

 

Keep the C&C coming, I just bought a bowling-ball resistant helmet

[CKO]

I think you should pick another foe, as necrons dont get in a ship and run away and leave a trail to chase. Now you can say that the chapter goes to places where necron sitings happen but that still is iffy. Also you dont have to have a reason to be a crusade like chapter, there are several chapters that operate from battle barges.

[Blacklight]

I think you should pick another foe, as necrons dont get in a ship and run away and leave a trail to chase. Now you can say that the chapter goes to places where necron sitings happen but that still is iffy. Also you dont have to have a reason to be a crusade like chapter, there are several chapters that operate from battle barges.

 

I might have worded it badly; the Necrons didn't retreat and tuck tail, the marines were forced to. In the stuff I was writing up, they have Thunderhawks come in and bomb the Necrons, stunning them long enough to get on board and retreat to their battle barge. As for their crusade, it's like you said, they're following up the reports the Imperium isn't and searching for Necron Tomb Worlds, once they learn about them. The crusade is to avenge their fallen brothers, and defend the Imperium against a foe they haven't accepted as real. Or at least don't accept until many years later. I'm shooting to have them have a homeworld with a fortress-monastery, but have their Companies/Crusades operate from a fleet. Each Crusade rotates through a tour on the homeworld, during which they scout for potential recruits, defend the monastery, and train Initiates.

[CKO]

I think I misunderstood :huh: you it happens, I am sure you will answer most of my questions in your writing.

[Blacklight]

Not a problem, man :huh: I'm hoping to get some actual fluff for the Origins up in the next day or two. I'm snowboarding most of tomorrow and working the next couple days after, but work's been slow, so I do some writing while there. I've got quite a bit already, it's just going to be a matter of trimming it down and focusing it.

[Apothete]

Add that to the "there is no way in the Eye that you can muster more than a First Founding Chapter" and you get a big no no. Remember, there is a hierarchy in terms of Chapters and replenishment; the Iron Hands particularly and the First Founding in general are more likely to get replenishment than any other Chapter if both have the same needs.

 

Curiously, the Iron Hands have a smaller than expected number of both Dreadnoughts and Terminators for their primacy in the order of creation and their close ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus. The events on Istvaan V cost the Chapter the bulk of both varieties of armor and it's strongly implied that they're lacking in replacements even to the current day, though I can't recall a current source that would defy the gloss-over retcon that was given to them by the latest Codex. This is the reason that they don't field full squads of TDA but rather dedicate it to officers and sergeants of particular skill and valor, combined with their reverence for the works of Mars and the potential of technology.

[LOUDERMAN]

How about the Steel Wardens?

 

I like the idea you've got going here, Its pretty slick! I was actually thinking it would be cool if the battle companies were lead by dreads and the reserves by regular marines. The idea of rotating commanders in and out of stasis is also cool. Maybye your chapter could have the means to manufacture the sarcophagus part of the dread, and you just swap those out when commanders rotate.

 

I'll definatly be keeping tabs on this thread, good luck man!

[Blacklight]

How about the Steel Wardens?

 

That, good sir, is a great idea. Warden never even crossed my mind - much thanks!

 

I like the idea you've got going here, Its pretty slick! I was actually thinking it would be cool if the battle companies were lead by dreads and the reserves by regular marines. The idea of rotating commanders in and out of stasis is also cool. Maybye your chapter could have the means to manufacture the sarcophagus part of the dread, and you just swap those out when commanders rotate.

 

Glad you're liking it! I'm not going to really go into why they have an increased number of dreads or even how many. As has been pointed out, it just causes more issues than it solves and in the grand scheme of things doesn't really add much to the IA. The lore specifically states that the knowledge to craft dreadnoughts has been lost, and I definitely don't want to bypass that - they're sacred machines and I don't want my chapter to somehow be able to ignore that bit of lore. I'm never going to field more than 6 dreads at a time in a game. Overall it's just not something I want to mess with. Thanks for the idea, though!

 

I'll definatly be keeping tabs on this thread, good luck man!

 

Thanks!

[Blacklight]

Just an update, I edited the OP with all of my notes for the Origins section of my future IA. Be sure to check the disclaimer I posted :teehee:

 

Again, thanks for any C&C you can offer, and thanks for reading!

[NightrawenII]

The host gene-seed of the Steel Wardens is traced from that of Ferrus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Fists. Though not Manus' actual gene-seed, it comes from the same line.

- Iron Hands. Iron Fists are later Founding with unknown gene-seed.

 

The chapter was engaged in no large scale battles, but did on several occasions fight and eliminate smaller Ork incursions in their sector.

- ... was not engaged in any...

- Ehm, Orks incursions are usually far from small. Waaagh! is massive force of million(s) of Orks.

 

After being relocated to the Segmentum Obscurus, to investigate the reports of dead worlds there, the chapter's duty changed dramatically.

- Why?

 

After their crippling defeat on Naogeddon, the Steel Wardens reorganized themselves into a crusade fleet, taking after the Black Templar that trained their chapter.

- Leave the Naogeddon out of this. It is well-documented part of background, so there is not enough place to maneuvre in.

 

This mission was at first opposed by the Inquisition, who saw the Necron threat as nothing more than ghost stories, but nearly a millennia later the Inquisition, now officially aware of the Necrons, realized how wrong they were about the Steel Wardens' report from Naogeddon.

- Sanctuary 101 incident in 897.M41 was the first recorded encounter with Necrons. Just saying.

 

Though their gene-seed stock originated from the Iron Fists' line, the actual training of the Steel Wardens was done by a number of Black Templar veterans.

- No, read the guides.

 

Reformation of the Chapter is too radical and illogical.

 

Each Crusade would have a small portion of its number dedicated to defending the Steel Wardens' fortress monastery.

- Are they fleet-based or with Homeworld? You have failed to mention this.

 

Dreadnoughts - Sanity

I don't buy this. It's too long and it doesn't adress some other issues with dreadnoughts. You simply spend too much time focusing on dreads on the behalf of the rest of the article, which in turn damages the IA.

[Blacklight]

The host gene-seed of the Steel Wardens is traced from that of Ferrus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Fists. Though not Manus' actual gene-seed, it comes from the same line.

- Iron Hands. Iron Fists are later Founding with unknown gene-seed.

 

Whoops, misread. I'll edit that.

 

The chapter was engaged in no large scale battles, but did on several occasions fight and eliminate smaller Ork incursions in their sector.

- ... was not engaged in any...

- Ehm, Orks incursions are usually far from small. Waaagh! is massive force of million(s) of Orks.

 

By small, I just meant smaller than a Waaagh!. Large scale being a Waaagh!.

 

After being relocated to the Segmentum Obscurus, to investigate the reports of dead worlds there, the chapter's duty changed dramatically.

- Why?

 

Like I mentioned, this was copy/pasted from my notes. It's basically referring to the Necron encounter and the chapter taking on the duty of tracking down Necrons wherever they could find them.

 

After their crippling defeat on Naogeddon, the Steel Wardens reorganized themselves into a crusade fleet, taking after the Black Templar that trained their chapter.

- Leave the Naogeddon out of this. It is well-documented part of background, so there is not enough place to maneuvre in.

 

Alright, I can change that. I used Naogeddon because of the obvious Necron presence, and from what I saw on the Lexicanum, there was only one short story that took place there about an Explorator group that ran into Necrons or something like that. Based on the Lexicanum entry I figured I would be able to have a lone battle take place there fairly safely - they land, fight, and leave. If that's too much to add in then I can make up a Tomb World without an issue. I just find when I write that if I mix in homebrew and canon together it's usually a stronger story.

 

This mission was at first opposed by the Inquisition, who saw the Necron threat as nothing more than ghost stories, but nearly a millennia later the Inquisition, now officially aware of the Necrons, realized how wrong they were about the Steel Wardens' report from Naogeddon.

- Sanctuary 101 incident in 897.M41 was the first recorded encounter with Necrons. Just saying.

 

In 666.M40 (according to the Time Line here) the first contact ever with Necrons took place. The Sanctuary 101 incident was the first recorded incident. My chapter encounters the Necrons and reports it, requesting an Exterminatus, but it is denied when the Inquisition doesn't believe their stories about enemies rising from the sand and coming back to life after being cut down. So basically, the Inquisition throws out their report and ignores it.

 

Though their gene-seed stock originated from the Iron Fists' line, the actual training of the Steel Wardens was done by a number of Black Templar veterans.

- No, read the guides.

 

Yeah I just re-read that, I'll change it when I fix the Iron Fists/Iron Hands issue.

 

Reformation of the Chapter is too radical and illogical.

 

I don't feel so, they're a young chapter when they lose a quarter of their strength in combat - including their chapter master - to an enemy they can't prove exists. Their chapter master swears an oath to destroy their foes and the chapter launches a crusade against them, reorganizing their remaining strength to better fight their enemies. If they were a centuries old chapter I would agree on it being too radical. For the most part, their initial changes are just merging their original Companies into five Crusades. The chapter unanimously agreed to have the original chapter master continue to lead even after he became a dreadnought. After a time, he writes a Codex on dreadnoughts, which starts to shift the chapter more towards near dreadnought worship.

 

Each Crusade would have a small portion of its number dedicated to defending the Steel Wardens' fortress monastery.

- Are they fleet-based or with Homeworld? You have failed to mention this.

 

That was my bad, I thought I wrote it in there. They're a homeworld-based chapter, but I haven't named their homeworld yet. They have several Crusades that are constantly out hunting down Necrons - and any other enemies of the Imperium - while a small contingent defends the homeworld. The contingent rotates every five years or so to let everyone have a time guarding the homeworld, as well as to allow them to participate in finding recruits and training Initiates.

 

Dreadnoughts - Sanity

I don't buy this. It's too long and it doesn't adress some other issues with dreadnoughts. You simply spend too much time focusing on dreads on the behalf of the rest of the article, which in turn damages the IA.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. The numbers issue I/we decided to just not mention, as it would do nothing but bring controversy and it didn't really bring anything to the table. In regards to the sanity issue, it was generally decided that they do require some sleep to keep themselves sane, but as I pointed out, giving them something to do fills the gap of stasis sleep in my opinion and makes it so that the dreadnoughts don't require massive stretches of stasis sleep to keep sane. Considering the chapter's main unique aspect is their dreadnoughts and unique view on them, I felt information on why they are unique in the chapter would be necessary. I realize it's too much for an IA, and like I brought up before, these are my notes.

 

When I write, I like to do it in detail. For instance, when I created a unique race for a Star Wars roleplay I was participating in, I went all out. I created not only their appearance, but I created a beliefs system, their homeworld, homeworld's biology, their government system, military, etc., and went into full detail on each. That is far more than is necessary for something like an IA, but I want to have it available nonetheless. Will it be in the IA? No, but I plan to have it somewhere so those that are interested can view it.

 

Thanks for the C&C!

[NightrawenII]

I don't feel so, they're a young chapter when they lose a quarter of their strength in combat - including their chapter master - to an enemy they can't prove exists. Their chapter master swears an oath to destroy their foes and the chapter launches a crusade against them, reorganizing their remaining strength to better fight their enemies. If they were a centuries old chapter I would agree on it being too radical. For the most part, their initial changes are just merging their original Companies into five Crusades. The chapter unanimously agreed to have the original chapter master continue to lead even after he became a dreadnought. After a time, he writes a Codex on dreadnoughts, which starts to shift the chapter more towards near dreadnought worship.

That's the crux of problem. Your Chapter, a very young Chapter in W40k standards, has this Holy Tome of Astartes tactic called Codex Astartes, written by one of the demi-gods of the universe. Not only that, the Codex is a living document continuously re-written and updated for millenia. Throwing the codex out of window is practically bordering on the heresy.

 

2nd, it's illogical from the military POV. You have encountered this enemy you know low to zero about, and your reaction is "Hey lads. Lets throw the millenia of experience and proven doctrines out of window and reform our Chapter in totaly ad hoc fashion." Yeah, right. :cuss

[SpecialIssue]

I wouldn't say shaking up the chapter's organisation table is bordering on heresy. IMHO, as long as mutation and numbers are kept in check, the Administratum in all honesty couldn't care how a chapter was organised, whether into Crusades, Companies, Sections, what have you.

[NightrawenII]

It is not matter of Administratum. You have this book, which is telling you what is and what not worked throught the millenia of Eternal War and you are like "Nah, nah! I know better than these guys. We will use this organisation/tactic/doctrines, because I think it is going to work. Althought I got this idea just yesterday."

 

It is heresy to question the validity of the Codex Astartes.

[Ace Debonair]

Apologies in advance - I haven't been keeping up with the C&C recently.

So I might be re-treading old ground, but here goes. ;)

 

 

After being relocated to the Segmentum Obscurus, to investigate the reports of dead worlds there, the chapter's duty changed dramatically. After their crippling defeat on Naogeddon, the Steel Wardens reorganized themselves into a crusade fleet, taking after the Black Templar that trained their chapter. Their new, self-declared purpose was to hunt down and destroy the Necrons wherever they may exist. This mission was at first opposed by the Inquisition, who saw the Necron threat as nothing more than ghost stories, but nearly a millennia later the Inquisition, now officially aware of the Necrons, realized how wrong they were about the Steel Wardens' report from Naogeddon.

 

I'd kick the BT training cadre idea.

You don't need in-unverse BT influence to start a crusade, and I'm still trying to figure out why they'd train Iron Hands successors.

 

Training: The Steel Wardens were trained by a number of Iron Hands veterans. Following their training of the Wardens, the Iron Hands returned to their home chapter. However, their teachings were absorbed by the Wardens and would later contribute to their near-worship of dreadnoughts. Though the Iron Hands use a mixture of ranged and close combat weapons, the Steel Wardens eschewed their teachings and now lean primarily towards close combat where they can ensure an opponent is dead. The Iron Hands' favor towards bionics modifications and the Adeptus Mechanicus as a whole did remain in the Wardens' minds, however. Eventually this would lead to a close relationship between the Mechanicus and the Wardens, but not until after the chapter's reorganization.

Oh wait, the BT didn't train your chapter?

Good show. That first sentence still needs fixing, though.

 

The Steel Legion held orbit over the planet while the Chapter Master and his fellows awoke and adjusted to their new forms. Once he was in a suitable condition, Tiberius ordered a message be sent to Terra requesting an Exterminatus order be issued against Naogeddon. In the report, he described creatures rising from the sand, cutting down the marines, and retreating before they could be captured or killed. The Inquisition denied their request, stating a lack of evidence and obvious hallucinations were the cause - the chapter's chaplains were ordered to double their checks for Chaos corruption.

 

As a result of the encounter with the Necrons, the Steel Wardens lost over 200 marines in a single encounter, disastrous for any chapter. In addition, the chapter's apothecaries were able to recover only a small amount of the lost gene-seed, drastically crippling their ability to replenish their ranks. As if that wasn't devastating enough, the Inquisition was now watching the Steel Wardens with a suspicious gaze, thinking them going mad, or even corrupted by Chaos, because of their report.

See, now that I quite like.

The chapter, enraged over the loss of so many of their battle-brothers, begin to take steps to hunt down and destroy the aliens that so easily destroyed them. Chief of these is the reorganization of the chapter into a crusade, reorganizing the chapter hierarchy, and declaring an unending war against the foes - now known as the Necrons.

This, less so.

Losing one battle is a bad reason to switch your whole organisation around. The codex has worked for all the other chapters for a rather long time by this point, and I don't think your chapter would dismiss any of it's teachings quite so easily.

 

Going on crusade? Cool. That I like. All things considered, though, it'd be neat if they though the Necron some kind of Chaos construction, and went after nearby Chaos stuff with a fury until the truth is revealed. Once on crusade, their organisation could shift to better suit the crusade, slowly and over time. ^_^

 

 

Though not initially intended, the chapter's interring of Chapter Master Tiberius Septimus and his surviving entourage - in addition to their declaration of a crusade of vengeance against the Necrons - caused the chapter to begin to foster a reverence for dreadnoughts, more so than already exists in other chapters. The Steel Wardens view being interred in a dreadnought as the greatest honor a battle-brother of the chapter can attain. Even Initiates are taught from their very first day that they should strive to fall valiantly in battle, then to be brought back to continue their crusade of vengeance as an immortal dreadnought.

Nice.

 

The issue of sanity is a major one for those interred in dreadnoughts. The dreadnoughts of most chapters are dedicated to nothing but war, and in order to cope with the passing years spend their time not in battle in a state of stasis sleep. This statis sleep allows the dreadnought to 'skip' the majority of the years, preserving their sanity as much as possible. In the Steel Wardens, however, dreadnoughts do this fairly rarely, once every 5-10 years for one year. To prevent the dreadnoughts from going insane, High Marshal Tiberius composed the Codex Infinitus, a tome that details how to the Steel Wardens' dreadnoughts fit into chapter life. Instead of being purely war machines, the Steel Legion's dreadnoughts take up a leadership role. With decades, often centuries, of experience in tactics and war under their belts, dreadnoughts are often some of the best tacticians in a chapter. With this leadership role, most dreadnoughts are very active simply organizing the constantly crusading fleet. Being active, according to the Codex Infinitus, is the primary way of preventing insanity.

 

I don't think the first chapter master should write that book. He's right about the necrons, he's right about Dreadnought Sanity problems... it seems a bit unfair to the rest of the chapter that this one individual be so insightful. :lol:

Some kind of gradually assembled and still incomplete text would be better, something that successive generations of marines and dreadnoughts both work on.

 

Every dreadnought in the chapter is allowed to choose a Second, a marine from the Steel Wardens that will become the voice of the dreadnought while they sleep. In addition, this Second will take their place in combat actions that are in areas too small or inappropriate for a dreadnought. Seconds are typically marines that have experience in combat and have already earned their dreadnought honors. In the event the dreadnought the Second is serving is brought down, they are responsible for overseeing the refit of the sarcophagus, preparing it for a new inhabitant, and also seeing to the entombing of the fallen marine in the Necropolis beneath their fortress-monastery.

 

It's hard to guarantee dreadnoughtship, even with the best will in the world. The marine's got to be almost dead, for one thing, and then there's got to be an empty space for said marine in one of your dreadnoughts.

Making the 'seconds' hand-picked from a group of veterans is a good idea, though.

 

You also ping-ponged between an Iron Hands Training Cadre and a Black Templar Training Cadre somewhere further down the article. I'd stick with the IH, if only because it makes the crusading aspect of your chapter more original and unique. ;)

 

Stick at it. There's still plenty to do, but this is starting to shape up.

[Blacklight]

I'd kick the BT training cadre idea.

You don't need in-unverse BT influence to start a crusade, and I'm still trying to figure out why they'd train Iron Hands successors.

 

I meant to have them be trained by the Iron Hands - Nightrawen brought it up earlier that the contributing chapter would train the successors. I didn't really like any of the successor chapters of the Iron Hands, but at the same time I didn't want to have mine get the gene seed of one of the legions. I just said Iron Hands because they fit the best. The reason the Black Templars are still in there is because I just missed them when I edited it :D

 

Oh wait, the BT didn't train your chapter?

Good show. That first sentence still needs fixing, though.

 

Is it too generic? Or do you mean the one that says the Black Templar trained them? I can see how it would be generic, for sure.

 

See, now that I quite like.

 

This, less so.

Losing one battle is a bad reason to switch your whole organisation around. The codex has worked for all the other chapters for a rather long time by this point, and I don't think your chapter would dismiss any of it's teachings quite so easily.

 

Going on crusade? Cool. That I like. All things considered, though, it'd be neat if they though the Necron some kind of Chaos construction, and went after nearby Chaos stuff with a fury until the truth is revealed. Once on crusade, their organisation could shift to better suit the crusade, slowly and over time. ^_^

 

Good point. Their main reason in my eyes for reorganizing is the fact that the Inquisition doesn't believe that the Necrons are a real threat. It could very well be that the Wardens see it as Chaos, until the real first contact and they find that they're a separate xeno race altogether. It would certainly be a believable mix-up considering they have no idea what the Necrons are.

 

Perhaps after they start crusading, they find that it would make more sense and would be more effective to have equal strength crusades, so they merge their companies together. Not immediately, but after some engagements when they find they need more numbers and more specialized units then a company would normally have available. In all honesty the real reason for the 'reorganization' is my real life OCD - I need balance to keep myself sane ^_^ Probably a bad reason to have a chapter reorganize, but hey, DIY chapters are here for a reason, right?

 

Nice.

 

Thanks, I've tossed up having them view being interred as a way of becoming closer to the Emperor, in a way. Where the Emperor is entombed in the Golden Throne of Terra, marines in the Steel Wardens strive to be interred in their dreadnoughts. Not sure whether or not it would work, but it's a thought.

 

I don't think the first chapter master should write that book. He's right about the necrons, he's right about Dreadnought Sanity problems... it seems a bit unfair to the rest of the chapter that this one individual be so insightful. :lol:

Some kind of gradually assembled and still incomplete text would be better, something that successive generations of marines and dreadnoughts both work on.

 

Good idea. He can start it and go into some detail on how to keep from going wonkers, but the rest of the chapter's dreads can contribute to it. I like.

 

It's hard to guarantee dreadnoughtship, even with the best will in the world. The marine's got to be almost dead, for one thing, and then there's got to be an empty space for said marine in one of your dreadnoughts.

Making the 'seconds' hand-picked from a group of veterans is a good idea, though.

 

You also ping-ponged between an Iron Hands Training Cadre and a Black Templar Training Cadre somewhere further down the article. I'd stick with the IH, if only because it makes the crusading aspect of your chapter more original and unique. ;)

 

Stick at it. There's still plenty to do, but this is starting to shape up.

 

I didn't mean to imply they 'guarantee' dreadnoughtship, it's just a way of saying that they've shown they're worthy of the honor, and if they fall in battle, they're eligible to be interred if they can. Sort of like Terminator Honors - you can get them, but there's no guarantee you'll actually have a suit to wear, depending on the chapter's armory.

 

As for the Iron Hands and the Black Templars, I meant them to be Iron Hands. I forgot to double check and didn't swap out some of the Black Templar bits, clearly :)

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

It is not matter of Administratum. You have this book, which is telling you what is and what not worked throught the millenia of Eternal War and you are like "Nah, nah! I know better than these guys. We will use this organisation/tactic/doctrines, because I think it is going to work. Althought I got this idea just yesterday."

 

It is heresy to question the validity of the Codex Astartes.

 

I don't think so. It's basically the exact same thing as the current day Bible. Christians view the Bible as holy, but Muslims do not. Muslims view the Koran as holy, but Christians do not. It's a matter of viewpoint. The Ultramarines might view the Codex Astartes as a holy book, but other chapters might only see it as a good tactical doctrine and others still might not even care. The Space Wolves certainly don't, and neither do the Black Templars. The Wardens don't view the Codex as useless - it is chock full of sound tactical doctrine - but as for the organization and such, it is up to the chapter. Chapters that don't follow the Codex include Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and the Iron Hands. The Iron Hands trained the Wardens, so it's not outrageous to think their views of the Codex would stick to the Wardens. In my eyes the only chapters that view the book as holy are the Ultramarines and their successors, since it was their Primarch that wrote it.

 

Tactics-wise, they don't change much. They favor close combat weapons like the Black Templars, but they do use Devastators, Assault, and Tactical marines as outlined in the Codex. Their preference is to charge in, but if a situation favors a long range barrage, they can arm marines with Devastator gear. They aren't outright saying the Codex is wrong, flawed, and they aren't going to use it, they're changing some of it to better fit their situation. They're constantly crusading against the Necrons, and as such need each 'wing' of their Crusade to be as strong as the other. To do so they spread their strength equally over five Crusades, with a small number from each one serving as the homeworld's guards for a time. And according to the definition of a chapter, there is no leader over the Chapter Master of a particular chapter. The High Lords of Terra or the Emperor didn't write the Codex, so it's impossible to call it heresy. If anything the Ultramarines could say the Wardens are moronic for disregarding their Primarch's tactical doctrine, but there's nothing heretical about it. The only thing that could be heretical would be if the Wardens' numbers grew to far more than the 1,000 that the Codex outlines, as that begins to threaten the rest of the Imperium - the original Legions were broken up to prevent a single person from controlling vast numbers of marines. The Wardens haven't breached that number, nor have they been tainted by Chaos. The Inquisition has nothing to worry about there. It's just a matter of the Chapter Master seeing differently than the Codex says.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

It is not matter of Administratum. You have this book, which is telling you what is and what not worked throught the millenia of Eternal War and you are like "Nah, nah! I know better than these guys. We will use this organisation/tactic/doctrines, because I think it is going to work. Althought I got this idea just yesterday."

 

Agreed.

 

It is heresy to question the validity of the Codex Astartes.

 

Not as far as I'm aware it's not, though that doesn't mean it's a wise decision by a long shot.

 

I don't think so. It's basically the exact same thing as the current day Bible. Christians view the Bible as holy, but Muslims do not. Muslims view the Koran as holy, but Christians do not. It's a matter of viewpoint. The Ultramarines might view the Codex Astartes as a holy book, but other chapters might only see it as a good tactical doctrine and others still might not even care.

 

No, you're confusing the Codex Astartes with the limitations imposed on the organization of Space Marine armies presented in Codex: Space Marines for the tabletop game.

 

You can't compare the Codex Astartes to the Koran or Bible because they aren't living documents. It's not so much a big damn book as it is a library of historical warfare, strategic treatises, tactical anecdotes from commanders and soldiers from across the history of the Imperium and maybe even before, depending on how far back Guilliman delved.

 

They view it as a holy book because of the backward religious ritualism that the entire Imperium is steeped in within the 40k universe, this is not malleable.

 

Chapters that don't follow the Codex include Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and the Iron Hands.

 

The chapters you've listed are all first founding chapters who have been around as long as the Ultramarines and at this stage in history, there is nothing in the codex they wouldn't have encountered, no intelligent reason they wouldn't have copies of it themselves to reference regardless of the application of it's organizational strictures or not. I'd venture they don't disregard the book at all, even if they don't do exactly as it says you 'should' do. To do so would border on the territory of being undergarment-on-bonce-backward.

 

The comparison is as NightwaranII stated above, but I'll give one of my own as well.

 

Lets say you've just graduated from Basic Training in the Army and are about to go on to Officer Training. You are handed a copy of Sun Tsu's The Art of War and are told that it contains many lessons and examples of how you should organize the forces available to you and is an invaluable resource. He may be a raving lunatic by the fact that his clothes are made up from the cover and front page of dozens of copies of the book, his fervent belief in the book as an almost holy relic in his mind does not divorce the fact that he is right, that it is an invaluable resource.

 

The Art of War (yes I have read it) contains many, many lessons and philosophies that are still in use today because they are timeless in their application. What commander in his right mind would simply throw it out because he was being defeated on the battlefield?

 

Could you associate deification of individuals like Alexander the Great or Sun Tsu because so many people rave on and on about their skill and insight into the nature of warfare? Probably, but that doesn't invalidate their work just because it's taken on a different aspect with a certain group of individuals.

 

There are gray areas here too. Not every commander is smart or cunning enough to use what's given to him properly, you take an anecdote too literally and you can make a total shambles of an easy operation. Likewise if you play too fast and loose with a set of guidelines there to help you, much the same thing can result.

 

 

 

To me it's not so much whether you follow the organization as laid down in the Codex as rigidly as the Ultramarines (even though it's meant to be a flexible deployment and when dealing with special forces and even the military in general, flexibility is key), to dump the entire 'book' is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.