IA: Steel Wardens

[Blacklight]

I like it. I like it a lot. It's not perfect, but there's a lot of good stuff here. It's all very imaginative, but believable — I feel like I can see the Fortress Monastery in my mind's eye. Great job.

 

Thanks, saying you can see it is a big compliment - that's what I was shooting for ;)

 

I read the IA twice and I can't see what this quote has to do with anything.

 

Forcystus is correct, it's referring to how they keep sane without extended time in stasis-sleep. If the mind is idle, it's easier to go insane. If they're busy, it's easier to not think about the years going by.

 

I know you're not finished, but so far I see Orks but no Chaos.

 

That's right, the Chaos stuff is going to be mostly in the history section. The Orks are a major part of their homeworld, so I put them there. Well, the tunnel Orks anyways. They'll most likely fight 'regular' Orks on other worlds. Anyways yeah, they're going to fight Chaos but it's going to be in the history/timeline part.

 

Rather sloppy on the Imperium's part.

 

True... I didn't really consider that much. My thought was that the Imperium sent a survey team and landed in a place where there was no vegetation, barbarian tribes, etc. The Masadan Sappers don't come to the surface very much, so entrances to the cave networks are usually made by Orks and very hard to find. They landed and searched for awhile but found none, and so they labeled it Dead. It isn't until the Wardens arrive and start to really explore the place that they find there's actually some life there.

 

Too casual for an IA. Could easily be The origin of the tunnels was unknown, until... or something else as an easy fix.

 

Nice catch, you got a good point. I'll revise it for the next update.

 

The barbarians generally know how to avoid the tunnel Orks – they aren’t generally stealthy and the learned clansmen can hear them long before the Orks are upon them. The Orks themselves have split into a number of tribes, each led by a Warboss, that continually wage war upon each other for territory. The Wardens and barbarians are almost completely safe on the surface, as the Orks cannot venture into the sun, and the night cycle of Masada generally lasts for only a few hours depending on the location.

 

Used generally a few too many times, I see. I'll change that :P

 

The two independent clauses have different subjects. It'd be better as two sentences.

 

Agreed, I'll change that as well.

 

Awkwardly passive. The majority of the fortress-monastery is within the chapter keep.

 

Agreed again.

 

Aren't tunnels rather enclosed quarters? Dwarfs in Warhammer Fantasy are melee specialists for the same reason your Marines are ranged specialists. Oh wait, look here:

 

Close combat in the tunnels is a dangerous thing, and due to the sheer size of the caverns fighting at range is actually the better tactical decision.

 

I'll have to re-elaborate on it, but basically the tunnels aren't like caves you would expect. You can fit a few dreadnoughts down the largest ones, and they go on in straight lines for quite a distance. The Sappers don't like to turn and generally change direction only if they pass a richer deposit of nutrients. So most of the tunnels are massive and go in straight lines which are great for ranged fighting. When there's a massive rich deposit of minerals, the Sappers will congregate and hollow the area out, which creates huge caverns with multiple tunnels leading into it. Instead of spreading the forces thinly with melee weapons to cover every entrance, they opt for ranged weapons so they can hold the center of the cavern and keep anyone entering suppressed.

 

Your average Marines are better shots than the veterans? Or are heavy bolters better than assault cannons somehow? I don't see why the shooty chapter doesn't have shooty Termies.

 

I didn't mean to say they have the better shot or superiority in weaponry. Basically, since the rest of the chapter is, for the most part, fielding ranged weapons, they prefer to have their Terminators field powerful melee weapons. Their ability to teleport to trouble spots and rip enemies to shreds with lightning claws and the like makes them invaluable. They could use assault cannons, but if for some reason a force of enemies manage to close in and threaten the ranged units, the Terminators can teleport in and hold them off while the ranged units relocate. With their massive armor and powerful weapons it makes more sense to have them react to melee threats. Sure, they could have them use assault cannons and aid in ranged fire, but to me they are more valuable as melee. With the chapter's dreadnoughts using assault cannons and such the Wardens already have more than enough ranged fire, but they lack melee which is where the Terminators come in.

 

I like it. It seems that Terminator honors are almost discounted in your belief section. Maybe make that as a stage on their road to internment. Also maybe describe a visual display on those who have earned the honor of becoming a Dreadnought. Some type of heraldry of something like the Crux. Those are the only things I noticed at this point.

 

Madwolf

 

I'll definitely have to rewrite that then, I didn't mean to discount Terminator honors entirely. They're sort of step one in the three part process of becoming a dreadnought. First you have to earn your Terminator honors, second you earn your Dreadnought honors, and third you have to fall and nearly die in honorable combat. I didn't mean for it to read like Terminator honors are the 'lesser' of the two.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Do this need savaging critiquing again?

[Blacklight]

Do this need savaging critiquing again?

 

I'm always open for more flogging critique!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

...inherited their trainers’ affection..

 

- Inherited? In what sense? It's a geneseed thing after all.

 

Also, "affection" is the wrong word entirely.

 

Dacien Septimus

 

- Doesn't sound like an Iron Hand.

 

With no surface water to be found, the clans had clearly found some source of water.

 

:)

 

Honestly, read that out loud.

 

After some time on the world, the Wardens discovered this source – beneath the planet’s surface was a vast, planet spanning network of tunnels that housed Masada’s water supply. The Masadans discovered this source of water and used it to survive on an otherwise lifeless planet.

 

- Advanced detection equipment and they couldn't find water?

 

Also, read it out loud as well.

 

However, the barbarians of Masada were not the planet’s only inhabitants – underground, deep within the planet’s tunnel network, dwelled millions upon millions of mutated Orks. How the creatures came to live on the world, and how they mutated, is not known even to the Wardens. What is known, however, is that the creatures cannot survive outside the tunnels – the chapter’s apothecaries reason that the Orks have dwelled in the tunnels so long their biological makeup has changed to allow them to survive perfectly without light. This also means that they can no longer deal with sunlight. One specimen’s flesh, when hauled to the surface by one of the Wardens, began to boil and burn almost immediately. Orks on Masada, in contrast to those found throughout the rest of the galaxy, have a sickly pale, barely green skin tone which supports the tunnel-dwelling theory.

 

- Too. Many. Tiny. Sentences.

 

..1st..

 

- "First".

 

These worms are now called Masadan Sappers..

 

- These worms live in tunnels, where the natives find their water, and this is the first mention they get? Kinda hard to miss a giant worm when youre out for a stroll.

 

The planet has no other life forms...

 

- Apart from Humans and Orks?

 

..the Wardens have no way of knowing the extent of the Ork infestation...

 

- Even I know there are millions and millions.

 

The barbarians on the surface survive by eating the meat of the Sappers..

 

- Giant worm that tunnels through rock Vs. primitive Humans? That'll be more one-sided than Haye Vs. Harrison.

 

The clansmen carry a weapon similar to a ballista down into the tunnels and lie in wait. When a worm approaches, they fire an oversized javelin directly down the gullet of the worm. Once inside, the clansmen pull on a rope trailed by the javelin that extends massive barbs out into the worm’s innards.

 

- I'm guessing you're not familiar with how complex a weapon a Ballista can be, if you're handing them out to barbarians.

 

The barbarians generally know how to avoid the tunnel Orks – they aren’t very stealthy and the learned clansmen can hear them long before the Orks are upon them.

 

- Didn't evolve very well did they, these Orks?

 

The Orks themselves have split into a number of tribes, each led by a Warboss, that continually wage war upon each other for territory

 

- If they are avoided, how do you know?

 

Though the Orks rarely ever leave their tunnels..

 

- But you said the natives are safe on the surface.. Providing everyone pays the electricity bills, I'm assuming?

 

the Chapters Tenth Company, called the Aegides – or Shields – remain in the fortress-monastery and defend it from attack. Whereas the Tenth Company of most Chapters consists of the Chapters recruits, each Company in the Steel Wardens is of equal makeup to the rest.

 

- I've altered the above to how it should look, but this should go in the Organisation section - mention the Tenth then explain why later.

 

I haven't read the Fortress-Monastery part mainly because I don't see what it adds that you can't fit in elsewhere; I'm grumpy like that.

 

Where's the Organisation section before Combat Doctrine?

 

Steel Wardens are primarily a ranged fighting force, as dictated by their time fighting in the tunnels of Masada. Close combat in the tunnels is a dangerous thing, and due to the sheer size of the caverns fighting at range is actually the better tactical decision.

 

- Apparently the laws of physics just died.

 

The primary fighting force of the Wardens is the tactical marine, armed with a bolter and adept at ranged combat. The chapter fields a large number of devastator squads with heavy bolters, which can mow down infantry – such as the tunnel Orks of Masada – with ruthless efficiency. Not completely eschewing close quarters combat, each company in the chapter can call upon a number of assault squads armed with bolt pistols and chainswords. These squads will drop in front of advancing enemies that threaten the Wardens’ devastator and tactical squads, tying them down in melee combat while the ranged squads continue to lay down withering fields of fire.

 

- That entire passage is basically paraphrasing the Codex Astartes, Guilliman would be proud.

 

The Steel Wardens field at least one dreadnought in nearly every battle, and frequently more. These behemoths of war are generally equipped with ranged weapons, with which they can become mobile heavy assault platforms. The Confessor-pattern dreadnought is unique to the Wardens, which replaces the close combat weapon of the dreadnought and adds a second assault cannon. The twin-linked assault cannons make the Confessor a horrifying force, capable of cutting down full infantry advances in a single swath of fire. In the tunnels of Masada, the chapter’s dreadnoughts are generally equipped with twin-linked heavy flamers, allowing them to spew fiery death into the tunnels after the Orks. This pattern is called the Oblivion, and rightly so, as it sends its foes swiftly down the path of destruction.

 

- "Behemoth" is something far larger than a Dread, name of a Hive Fleet incidentally.

 

Confessor sounds rather like the Mortis Dreadnaught.

 

Dread Patterns = Sidebar.

 

Where drop pods in other chapters are used as shock and awe, the Wardens use them slightly differently. The Wardens are known to deploy their drop pods onto terrain otherwise completely inaccessible to the enemy, such as a mesa or the opposite side of a crevasse. From here, the Wardens’ advantage with ranged weaponry allows them to fire a withering barrage onto the enemy without fear of being rushed by close combat troops.

 

- Sounds more like "Common Sense" to me.

 

Generally, the Wardens favor ranged combat.

 

- We know, honest.

 

Also, why are you detailing all the major troop and vehicle types? ;)

 

every marine begins the long quest to earn their dreadnought honors

 

- Too far fetched given the realtive rarity of Dreadnaughts.

 

 

The Wardens don’t frequently field landspeeders or bikes in their engagements. Masada is incredibly mountainous, and neither of these vehicles fare well in the uneven terrain. Underground, the Wardens are known to use these faster vehicles to map the tunnel network and determine where Orks are currently dwelling in preparation for a Purge.

 

- Rocky tunnels don't inhibit Landspeeders or Bikes, but mountains do? :huh:

 

Rhinos, Land Raiders, and other tracked vehicles, however, are used by the Wardens quite often.

 

- Cause an armoured people carrier of large size is often more suited to palces a bike can't go.

 

In a Warden’s eyes, the sarcophagus of a dreadnought is a direct parallel to the Golden Throne of Terra..

 

- Doesn't fit right to me.

 

 

That's all I have for the moment, but it should be enough like.

[Blacklight]

Egads, my spine! That's a good bit of flogging critique, there! :P I actually had to break it up into two posts...

 

- Inherited? In what sense? It's a geneseed thing after all.

 

Also, "affection" is the wrong word entirely.

 

Good point. So instead of saying they got their affection for technology it should say that perhaps the trainers drove home their views of technology? Their understanding of the flesh being weak? That could make sense, if they see the flesh as weak what could be more powerful than being inside an armored sarcophagus bristling with weaponry?

 

- Doesn't sound like an Iron Hand.

 

I was going to say that shouldn't matter, as the chapters have their own naming conventions based on the cultures they came from, but that's a good point considering he came from the Hands originally.

 

:wacko:

 

Honestly, read that out loud.

 

Heh, yeah, looking back on it, that's not my strongest sentence ever <_<

 

- Advanced detection equipment and they couldn't find water?

 

Also, read it out loud as well.

 

Hmm. Good points, I'll have to rewrite that. I'm trying to think of a reason they couldn't detect the water underground but nothing's clicking right away.

 

- Too. Many. Tiny. Sentences.

 

Hahaha understood, I'll go over that one more time.

 

- "First".

 

Och, I get those usages confused all the time...

 

- These worms live in tunnels, where the natives find their water, and this is the first mention they get? Kinda hard to miss a giant worm when you're out for a stroll.

 

I thought it was an alright spot to bring them in. In terms of writing, I was going into detail on the tunnels and there wasn't really a good place to mention them earlier on.

 

- Apart from Humans and Orks?

 

Valid point. I'm thinking I'll wind up dropping the Dead World idea and just make it Feral. I don't think it would really classify as a Death World, at least compared to Catachan and the like. Though having millions of Orks living underground wouldn't make it a nice place to live, either...

 

- Even I know there are millions and millions.

 

True, but that's not their extent. I just meant there's more than likely millions and millions of them, but exactly how many, nobody knows.

 

- Giant worm that tunnels through rock Vs. primitive Humans? That'll be more one-sided than Haye Vs. Harrison.

 

The clansmen carry a weapon similar to a ballista down into the tunnels and lie in wait. When a worm approaches, they fire an oversized javelin directly down the gullet of the worm. Once inside, the clansmen pull on a rope trailed by the javelin that extends massive barbs out into the worm’s innards.

 

- I'm guessing you're not familiar with how complex a weapon a Ballista can be, if you're handing them out to barbarians.

 

I'll have to scratch barbarian out; they're not stone-age, more along the lines of bronze or possibly iron. Far enough along that they have weapons to protect themselves but they're still primitive compared to the rest of the Imperium.

 

- Didn't evolve very well did they, these Orks?

 

Heh, they're ultra-sensitive to light, yes, but they're still Orks - they wanna smash things and they definitely don't all get along :ph34r:

 

- If they are avoided, how do you know?

 

The Wardens don't avoid them, but the barbarians do. The Wardens will send scouts into the tunnels to take note of where the Orks are, and have noted different armor coloration and they've seen Orks fighting each other.

 

- But you said the natives are safe on the surface.. Providing everyone pays the electricity bills, I'm assuming?

 

Relatively safe. The Orks only head to the surface if they get carried away, so attacks on settlements are pretty rare. Usually if the Orks go off and attack someone, they get stuck outside during daybreak and die anyways.

 

- I've altered the above to how it should look, but this should go in the Organisation section - mention the Tenth then explain why later.

 

I haven't read the Fortress-Monastery part mainly because I don't see what it adds that you can't fit in elsewhere; I'm grumpy like that.

 

Good idea, forgot all about Organization.

 

Aww, Mr. Grumpy <_< I could have probably fit it elsewhere, but I wanted to go into detail on certain places like the Necropolis so I felt it warranted a section for itself.

 

Where's the Organisation section before Combat Doctrine?

 

Like I said, forgot all about it. I'll work on that next.

 

- Apparently the laws of physics just died.

 

Well, my thought was that these tunnels aren't like caves. They go on for thousands of feet without really turning sometimes, are actually quite round and smooth, and provide long lines of fire. As I explained above, charging into a fight and swinging a weapon in an enclosed space is asking for trouble. Instead they prefer to coax the Orks into their fire lanes and slice them down with heavy ranged fire. Their melee is just to hold them at bay while ranged cuts them down. If they were fighting in a cave like we're used to, small and enclosed, then I would have to agree with you.

[Blacklight]

- That entire passage is basically paraphrasing the Codex Astartes, Guilliman would be proud.

 

Heh, figure I could just cut that right out? For Combat Doctrine I figured I would just go into everything about their fighting style.

 

- "Behemoth" is something far larger than a Dread, name of a Hive Fleet incidentally.

 

Good point. I'll just replace it with machine or something.

 

Confessor sounds rather like the Mortis Dreadnaught.

 

Dread Patterns = Sidebar.

 

It's basically the exact same thing except I didn't want to rip Mortis off of the Dark Angels. Mostly because it said the Mortis was a Dark Angel exclusive. I figured naming the pattern differently could alleviate it for the most part.

 

- Sounds more like "Common Sense" to me.

 

And to me as well :P I'm used to seeing Drop Pods smash down in the middle of enemies so I thought having them deploy into hard to reach areas would be a bit different - hence the mention.

 

- We know, honest.

 

Haha, I actually realized I was rambling by that point but I'm not too sure why I kept it in there...

 

Also, why are you detailing all the major troop and vehicle types? <_<

 

It's the Combat Doctrine section so I assumed it would be a good place to detail the types of troops they use and how they use them.

 

- Too far fetched given the realtive rarity of Dreadnaughts.

 

Not really. I didn't detail this too well and it needs a bit more work, but basically getting your Dreadnought honors doesn't mean you're going to get interred. It just shows you're the best of the best, mentally and physically, and have been deemed fit for interment. If, when the marine falls, he's received his honors and a dreadnought is available, he'll get interred. Otherwise, he's laid to rest in the Necropolis like the rest of the chapter.

 

- Rocky tunnels don't inhibit Landspeeders or Bikes, but mountains do? <_<

 

Like I mentioned, the tunnels aren't like caves. They're just long, straight, round tunnels that are remarkably easy to navigate in terms of terrain. There's no giant boulders, stalactites, stalagmites, and pitfalls to worry about. Only time there would be a pitfall is if two tunnels were dug close to each other, or if a Sapper dug down through an existing tunnel. But for the most part it's open enough for speeders and bikes to navigate without a problem. Outside though is like the Badlands of the Dakotas, ravines, mountains, crevasses, etc. Hardly a place for a speeder or a bike.

 

- Cause an armoured people carrier of large size is often more suited to palces a bike can't go.

 

Tracked vehicles aren't used much outside of the tunnels for the same reason bikes aren't. They can navigate a bit better depending on the area, but in the tunnels they're great. On other worlds they use them a lot as well. If they have to fight outside the tunnels they rely on air transport.

 

- Doesn't fit right to me.

 

Basically, the Throne of Terra holds the Emperor - dying and broken, but still able to aid the Imperium. The sarcophagus of a dreadnought is viewed the same way - the marine inside is battered and broken, but through the dreadnought he is still able to aid the Imperium, and because they see it as a parallel to the Throne, it brings them closer to him, which is why they strive for it.

 

That's all I have for the moment, but it should be enough like.

 

Definitely gave me a lot to work on, I appreciate it!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

- These worms live in tunnels, where the natives find their water, and this is the first mention they get? Kinda hard to miss a giant worm when you're out for a stroll.

 

I thought it was an alright spot to bring them in. In terms of writing, I was going into detail on the tunnels and there wasn't really a good place to mention them earlier on.

 

- Best way is to mention in passing and then detail. So that you make a mention of the other than Human inhabitants and go into detail about Orks and Worms later.

 

- Even I know there are millions and millions.

 

True, but that's not their extent. I just meant there's more than likely millions and millions of them, but exactly how many, nobody knows.

 

- Basically, I'm questioning how you phrase it given the whole "millions" thing from earlier in the IA.

 

- But you said the natives are safe on the surface.. Providing everyone pays the electricity bills, I'm assuming?

 

Relatively safe. The Orks only head to the surface if they get carried away, so attacks on settlements are pretty rare. Usually if the Orks go off and attack someone, they get stuck outside during daybreak and die anyways.

 

- You know not once have you mentioned "dark" or "night"?

 

- Apparently the laws of physics just died.

 

Well, my thought was that these tunnels aren't like caves. They go on for thousands of feet without really turning sometimes, are actually quite round and smooth, and provide long lines of fire. As I explained above, charging into a fight and swinging a weapon in an enclosed space is asking for trouble. Instead they prefer to coax the Orks into their fire lanes and slice them down with heavy ranged fire. Their melee is just to hold them at bay while ranged cuts them down. If they were fighting in a cave like we're used to, small and enclosed, then I would have to agree with you.

 

It's a planet with Medieval - at best - inhabitants, with Orks and tunneling worms.. You would have natural or man-/Ork-made smooth caves and tunnels.

 

Also, why are you detailing all the major troop and vehicle types? :P

 

It's the Combat Doctrine section so I assumed it would be a good place to detail the types of troops they use and how they use them.

 

- Work on the basis that if it isn't like the Codex - the majority of Chapters follow it remember - we need to know.

 

- Too far fetched given the realtive rarity of Dreadnaughts.

 

Not really. I didn't detail this too well and it needs a bit more work, but basically getting your Dreadnought honors doesn't mean you're going to get interred. It just shows you're the best of the best, mentally and physically, and have been deemed fit for interment. If, when the marine falls, he's received his honors and a dreadnought is available, he'll get interred. Otherwise, he's laid to rest in the Necropolis like the rest of the chapter.

 

- Then come out and say it; if the meaning is unclear you have /failed.

 

- Rocky tunnels don't inhibit Landspeeders or Bikes, but mountains do? <_<

 

Like I mentioned, the tunnels aren't like caves. They're just long, straight, round tunnels that are remarkably easy to navigate in terms of terrain. There's no giant boulders, stalactites, stalagmites, and pitfalls to worry about. Only time there would be a pitfall is if two tunnels were dug close to each other, or if a Sapper dug down through an existing tunnel. But for the most part it's open enough for speeders and bikes to navigate without a problem. Outside though is like the Badlands of the Dakotas, ravines, mountains, crevasses, etc. Hardly a place for a speeder or a bike.

 

- See above, somewhere.

 

If they have to fight outside the tunnels they rely on air transport.

 

- You know this isn't mentioned and I'm not in your head?

[Blacklight]

- Best way is to mention in passing and then detail. So that you make a mention of the other than Human inhabitants and go into detail about Orks and Worms later.

 

Thanks, when I sit down and do a re-write I'll be sure to do it.

 

- Basically, I'm questioning how you phrase it given the whole "millions" thing from earlier in the IA.

 

I didn't even remember that, thanks for catching it. I'll change that as well.

 

- You know not once have you mentioned "dark" or "night"?

 

Very valid point, haha, I have a problem with keeping my thoughts and what I have written separate - I coulda sworn I wrote night raids somewhere.

 

It's a planet with Medieval - at best - inhabitants, with Orks and tunneling worms.. You would have natural or man-/Ork-made smooth caves and tunnels.

 

I see what you mean. I really hadn't thought of that. My thinking was the vast majority were made by worms and I didn't go into thinking the Orks would make their own.

 

- Work on the basis that if it isn't like the Codex - the majority of Chapters follow it remember - we need to know.

 

Will do, that'll trim the section down nicely.

 

- Then come out and say it; if the meaning is unclear you have /failed.

 

Gotcha. Next revision I'll go into it more.

 

- You know this isn't mentioned and I'm not in your head?

 

Again, the problem with my thoughts and what I've written becomes apparent :D

 

I've still got work to do, clearly. Next revision I'll try and clean things up a bit.

[Plague Angel]

Okay, giving it another read. Because as we all know, every text changes every time you read it.

 

"The mind of the indolent becomes undone, but the mind of the diligent becomes keen."

 

So it's purpose was explained to me, but I still don't like this quote. It's not inspiring or memorable or elegant or even very communicative, it's just clunky.

 

Formed during the 16^th Founding

 

Random comment: I only put "early M35" in my own IA because I didn't want to date a Founding if I didn't have to, but in my head I was thinking "probably 14-16th Founding" as I was writing it. So we can be cousins if you like.

 

the Steel Wardens are a Space Marine chapter drawn from the line of Ferrus Manus, Primarch of the Iron Hands. Intended to defend against Chaos and Ork incursions in the Segmentum Ultima, they were given the relatively unknown world of Masada as both their homeworld and staging area for attacks against their enemies.

 

Isn't it kind of a given that an Astartes world will be their base? Do you have to specify that twice? It winds up being too wordy without passing along any new information. I do like the name Masada though.

 

Trained by veterans of the Iron Hands, the Steel Wardens inherited their trainers’ affection for technology as well as their combat style. One of these veterans, named Dacien Septimus, would go on to become the Wardens’ first chapter master.

 

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

However, the barbarians of Masada were not the planet’s only inhabitants – underground, deep within the planet’s tunnel network, dwelled millions upon millions of mutated Orks. How the creatures came to live on the world, and how they mutated, is not known even to the Wardens. What is known, however, is that the creatures cannot survive outside the tunnels – the chapter’s apothecaries reason that the Orks have dwelled in the tunnels so long their biological makeup has changed to allow them to survive perfectly without light. This also means that they can no longer deal with sunlight. One specimen’s flesh, when hauled to the surface by one of the Wardens, began to boil and burn almost immediately. Orks on Masada, in contrast to those found throughout the rest of the galaxy, have a sickly pale, barely green skin tone which supports the tunnel-dwelling theory.

 

The Wardens may not know, but do you? Orks can be mutated, yes, there's even official art of Nurgle Orks, but they don't evolve as such. They're engineered bio-weapons. Unless there's active Chaos interference (which seems unlikely as there's no clue here pointing that way) I find it very, very unlikely they'd just "adapt" to their surroundings. Especially since they reproduce by spores and, in many many thousands of years, have undergone shockingly little genetic variation despite the millions of different worlds they've grown on. I let this slide on the first run through because I figured "Hey, it's a big galaxy and anything's probably possible." But it is straining my suspension of disbelief, all the same.

 

The origins of the planet's mysterious tunnel network were unknown until the 1st Purge of Masada. Several squads of Steel Warden marines were fighting a tunnel Ork force back through a tunnel some distance from the fortress-monastery when suddenly a gigantic wormlike creature burst through the cavern wall. Pale and grub-like, the creature’s enormous maw contained several circular rows of teeth, and it appeared to be digesting the rock and soil. The creature did not directly attack the marines, though several unfortunate Orks were standing directly in front of the worm when it burst through the wall and were ripped to shreds in the worm’s maw. These worms are now called Masadan Sappers, and the planet’s current population is unknown. The creatures pull nutrients from the soil and rock and require no living sustenance and are only a danger if an unfortunate soul is standing in front of them with nowhere to flee.

 

I keep flip-flopping on this.

 

The first time I read your IA (without commenting on it), I rolled my eyes at this part. The second time (when I did comment), I was prepared and saw how it fit in and how you had put thought into these creatures, so I didn't say anything. But it's actually been on my mind today, and like I said I keep going back and forth.

 

I assume many 40k fans, if not most, have read Dune. So it's really hard not to think of that novel when one comes across giant alien worms, even if it's not necessarily on a desert world. Of course it seems like every speculative fiction setting has to have a worm these days, so I feel simultaneously tired of them, but also desensitized so I don't really notice them. So the annoyance tends to fester.

 

What you have here is a bit that both adds and detracts from the IA. It's characterful and done well-enough. But it's also a hurdle for the reader to accept that they're still reading 40k and haven't been transported to some other setting. If they can make that hurdle and accept it, there are some rewards for doing so, yes. But you could just as easily remove the hurdle. The draw of your chapter isn't that they fight giant worms. Their appeal is that they're shooty, use unorthodox (for 40k players at least) combat doctrines, and have their own interesting cult and culture. The tunnels could easily have some other explanation and the worms could be removed entirely, and really — what would you be missing that couldn't be replaced?

 

The planet has no other life forms,

 

I'm no scientist, but this sounds like a seriously screwed up ecosystem going on with only three species. How do any of them maintain sustainable populations? If the worms eat the nutrients from the soil, how are the nutrients replaced so that there can be new, baby worms? If the humans only eat the worms, how do they keep from hunting the worms to extinction — unless the worms have a high reproduction rate but then you're back at the nutrition problem for them, too. Also, if there are enough nutrients in the soil to sustain a worm species, and there's water to be found, how come the humans haven't discovered farming? The exclusively worm-hunting society doesn't work anthropologically, especially not with their tech-level.

 

 

The barbarians generally know how to avoid the tunnel Orks – they aren’t very stealthy and the learned clansmen can hear them long before the Orks are upon them. The Orks themselves have split into a number of tribes, each led by a Warboss, that continually wage war upon each other for territory.

 

Why are there no Blood Axes or Kommandos? Also, these are the worst Orks in the galaxy if they can't even find the fight. 'ow is dey supposed to be krumpin' if dey can't even find da' humiez, boss? And not one of these Warbosses has been kunnin' enuff to get together a WAAAAGH!! and attack at night in large numbers? If the Orks are constantly fighting over territory, then surely one or more of the Bosses is getting more powerful and getting more recruits from defectors/defeated warbands, and is going to want to find more fightin'. It's in their very DNA, and the Mekboyz will find some way to get them space-born eventually.

 

Though the Orks rarely ever leave their tunnels and the Wardens are quite safe in their fortress-monastery, every chapter master of the Steel Wardens has issued several Purges during their command. These Purges are essentially crusades against the Orks, during which several companies of marines descend into the dark tunnels in an effort to eradicate the aliens that dwell beneath the surface of their homeworld. Despite the fact that the Orks’ presence on Masada does not disturb the marines in almost any way, the idea that greenskins dwell on their sacred homeworld right beneath their feet angers most Wardens. The first Purge was decreed by Chapter Master Dacien Septimus shortly after the completion of the chapter’s fortress-monastery, and resulted in the eradication of thousands of Orks with relatively few casualties – the assault was halted only by more pressing matters on other worlds.

 

Having Orks on your home world, even with crippling mutations, should be a major effing deal. As is they are way too powerless and incidental. They don't even threaten the normal human population, let alone the Astartes.

 

 

These behemoths of war

 

I disagree with Juan here, I think the word "behemoth" is fine. It's not the best word ever or anything, but it fits well enough.

 

 

The chapter’s terminators typically are used in a similar fashion to the assault squads, which is one of close-combat.

 

You have 19 words there. You could do with as little as five. Speaking of brevity:

 

Generally, the Wardens favor ranged combat. Their devastator squads will fire at long range to suppress advancing infantry, while the tactical squads move to flanking positions. Assault squads will accompany the tactical squads to prevent melee engagements, dropping down on any threatening enemy units. Dreadnoughts will aid with ranged suppression, though it is not unheard of for them to equip twin melee weapons and charge headlong into the fray to cause chaos. Transport vehicles will ferry close combat equipped terminators into battle, and also provide suppression from their close range weapons.

 

I do believe you just stated, in one succinct paragraph, the entire section before it. So why did I waste my time with the whole section?

 

 

In a Warden’s eyes, the sarcophagus of a dreadnought is a direct parallel to the Golden Throne of Terra – so the Emperor serves eternally in his throne do the Wardens strive to serve eternally in their dreadnoughts.

 

I'll chalk the clunkiness up to typos. But on the idea:

 

This is a familiar idea to me. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to it. In fact, this very line of thinking is what lead my buddy's Chaos homebrew to turn renegade. So while it's fine, it's also not very original. In fact, I think this is one of those weird ideas that seems like common sense to us outside the setting, but probably would never occur to someone living in it. I doubt Marines who grew up in a galaxy where the Emperor has always been on the throne their entire lives would be thinking along the lines to make the connection. But then, these are Iron Hands descendants so they'll have teachings of the Omnissiah to give them ideas others wouldn't commonly have, so.... Something to consider.

 

Once earning their Black Carapace and becoming a full Warden, every marine begins the long quest to earn their dreadnought honors – the equivalent of terminator honors in other chapters. The Steel Wardens do have terminator honors as well

 

If the Steel Warden's dreadnought honors = other chapters' terminator honors, then the Steel Warden's terminator honors = other chapters' ????

 

 

The Steel Wardens' battle cry is two-part, the first spoken by the battle-brothers before a charge or before opening fire. The second is spoken by the chapter's dreadnoughts immediately after the first. The second part's conclusion signals the charge or open fire command.

 

Battle-Brothers: "In life I serve!"

Dreadnoughts: "In death I serve eternal!"

 

Much as I like this battle-cry... aren't the Dreadnoughts in command? So wouldn't that mean that they can't give the signal until their subordinates get it in their heads to initiate the order? I can see this resulting in two possible embarrassments: either the Dreadnought really needs to order the charge but can't because the battle-brothers haven't given him his cue, or the battle-brothers keep starting the cry and looking at the Dreadnought, who only says "not yet" instead.

 

 

Well. All my earlier compliments still stand, honest! But I hope this was more helpful than my first post.

[Blacklight]

So it's purpose was explained to me, but I still don't like this quote. It's not inspiring or memorable or elegant or even very communicative, it's just clunky.

 

The more I read over it the more I have to agree. I want it to reflect the same sort of message but try and keep it a bit more streamlined and easier to read.

 

Random comment: I only put "early M35" in my own IA because I didn't want to date a Founding if I didn't have to, but in my head I was thinking "probably 14-16th Founding" as I was writing it. So we can be cousins if you like.

 

Done and done :D

 

Isn't it kind of a given that an Astartes world will be their base? Do you have to specify that twice? It winds up being too wordy without passing along any new information. I do like the name Masada though.

 

True, I'll cut that out for the next revision. And glad you like it - I took it from Heavy Gear, though I know there's some other uses of it.

 

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

Does anyone know how the Iron Hands get their names? I know Ultras are Roman-based, and Ferrus Manus is taken from Latin, but the rest of the names seem a bit random. I'd like to make Dacien into a name that sounds more IH, and have the rest of the chapter take on their own naming conventions.

 

The Wardens may not know, but do you? Orks can be mutated, yes, there's even official art of Nurgle Orks, but they don't evolve as such. They're engineered bio-weapons. Unless there's active Chaos interference (which seems unlikely as there's no clue here pointing that way) I find it very, very unlikely they'd just "adapt" to their surroundings. Especially since they reproduce by spores and, in many many thousands of years, have undergone shockingly little genetic variation despite the millions of different worlds they've grown on. I let this slide on the first run through because I figured "Hey, it's a big galaxy and anything's probably possible." But it is straining my suspension of disbelief, all the same.

 

Earlier on in the thread someone brought up that Orks are known to mutate/evolve so I took that and made the tunnel Orks. My brainstorm here is that the Orks arrived when their ship encountered a warp storm and crashed on Masada. The crash punched through several layers of soil and the Orks were stuck inside the tunnels, and eventually they just adapted to life there.

 

Another thought that I've come up with is that the ship crashed and they mostly dwell in the tunnels but didn't evolve. They come to the surface to launch Waaagh!s on the humans on the surface, which the Wardens are forced to fight off. Because of the impassable terrain on the surface, the Orks move in the tunnels to get to their destinations. The Wardens launch attacks on the Orks while they move through the tunnels, and that's where the majority of the battles take place.

 

Not really sure how I'm going to go on it - I do really want to keep the Orks, because I think it gives some flavor to an otherwise bland world.

 

I keep flip-flopping on this.

 

The first time I read your IA (without commenting on it), I rolled my eyes at this part. The second time (when I did comment), I was prepared and saw how it fit in and how you had put thought into these creatures, so I didn't say anything. But it's actually been on my mind today, and like I said I keep going back and forth.

 

I assume many 40k fans, if not most, have read Dune. So it's really hard not to think of that novel when one comes across giant alien worms, even if it's not necessarily on a desert world. Of course it seems like every speculative fiction setting has to have a worm these days, so I feel simultaneously tired of them, but also desensitized so I don't really notice them. So the annoyance tends to fester.

 

What you have here is a bit that both adds and detracts from the IA. It's characterful and done well-enough. But it's also a hurdle for the reader to accept that they're still reading 40k and haven't been transported to some other setting. If they can make that hurdle and accept it, there are some rewards for doing so, yes. But you could just as easily remove the hurdle. The draw of your chapter isn't that they fight giant worms. Their appeal is that they're shooty, use unorthodox (for 40k players at least) combat doctrines, and have their own interesting cult and culture. The tunnels could easily have some other explanation and the worms could be removed entirely, and really — what would you be missing that couldn't be replaced?

 

I was really waiting for someone to mention Dune. In all honesty, I didn't even consider that when I first wrote them up. Then after I re-read it, I realized how similar they were and how quick someone would most likely make the comparison.

 

I've been thinking about it as well and I'm considering making the planet truly dead - sans the Orks. No humans or worms, and the tunnels are just an unknown mystery. I won't even touch on why they're there except say that they're unusual and nobody knows what created them. The Orks arrived on the ship, and that's why they live there, but nothing lives there naturally. The Wardens would recruit from a planet in the same system nearby and Masada would be their homeworld.

 

'm no scientist, but this sounds like a seriously screwed up ecosystem going on with only three species. How do any of them maintain sustainable populations? If the worms eat the nutrients from the soil, how are the nutrients replaced so that there can be new, baby worms? If the humans only eat the worms, how do they keep from hunting the worms to extinction — unless the worms have a high reproduction rate but then you're back at the nutrition problem for them, too. Also, if there are enough nutrients in the soil to sustain a worm species, and there's water to be found, how come the humans haven't discovered farming? The exclusively worm-hunting society doesn't work anthropologically, especially not with their tech-level.

 

Agreed, the more I look on it the more I think making it an actual Dead World makes more sense.

 

Why are there no Blood Axes or Kommandos? Also, these are the worst Orks in the galaxy if they can't even find the fight. 'ow is dey supposed to be krumpin' if dey can't even find da' humiez, boss? And not one of these Warbosses has been kunnin' enuff to get together a WAAAAGH!! and attack at night in large numbers? If the Orks are constantly fighting over territory, then surely one or more of the Bosses is getting more powerful and getting more recruits from defectors/defeated warbands, and is going to want to find more fightin'. It's in their very DNA, and the Mekboyz will find some way to get them space-born eventually.

 

More good points, haha. It's making me think having them not evolve and just be stuck there would be the better plan. They constantly war with the Wardens because the Wardens always give them a good fight - eventually they might leave the planet but for now they're pretty well stuck.

 

Having Orks on your home world, even with crippling mutations, should be a major effing deal. As is they are way too powerless and incidental. They don't even threaten the normal human population, let alone the Astartes.

 

It was supposed to be a big deal to the Wardens, because it's sort of viewed as a taint on their homeworld - hence the Purges. But I get what you're saying. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking of scratching the tunnel Ork idea and just making them regular Orks that live in the tunnels and attack the Wardens.

 

You have 19 words there. You could do with as little as five. Speaking of brevity:

 

Generally, the Wardens favor ranged combat. Their devastator squads will fire at long range to suppress advancing infantry, while the tactical squads move to flanking positions. Assault squads will accompany the tactical squads to prevent melee engagements, dropping down on any threatening enemy units. Dreadnoughts will aid with ranged suppression, though it is not unheard of for them to equip twin melee weapons and charge headlong into the fray to cause chaos. Transport vehicles will ferry close combat equipped terminators into battle, and also provide suppression from their close range weapons.

 

I do believe you just stated, in one succinct paragraph, the entire section before it. So why did I waste my time with the whole section?

 

I definitely have a problem with that :P I'll be cleaning that up. I'm used to writing essay format so I had a mental requirement to have multiple paragraphs - not good for an IA. Maybe when I finish this IA and go to work on a full blown Codex I'll go back to the paragraphs, but here it's a detractor.

 

I'll chalk the clunkiness up to typos. But on the idea:

 

This is a familiar idea to me. It doesn't bother me, I'm used to it. In fact, this very line of thinking is what lead my buddy's Chaos homebrew to turn renegade. So while it's fine, it's also not very original. In fact, I think this is one of those weird ideas that seems like common sense to us outside the setting, but probably would never occur to someone living in it. I doubt Marines who grew up in a galaxy where the Emperor has always been on the throne their entire lives would be thinking along the lines to make the connection. But then, these are Iron Hands descendants so they'll have teachings of the Omnissiah to give them ideas others wouldn't commonly have, so.... Something to consider.

 

Hmm... hadn't considered that. Dacien (or whatever I wind up naming him) could be a fanatical Iron Hand and brings his views on it to the Wardens, and it eventually grows into their sort of cult. Might be one of those things where I just have to trust the reader to take it with a grain of salt, but I don't like doing that too much.

 

If the Steel Warden's dreadnought honors = other chapters' terminator honors, then the Steel Warden's terminator honors = other chapters' ????

 

I worded that badly - Terminator honors are equivalent to other chapters' Terminator honors. Dreadnought honors don't have an equivalent in other chapters. I have considered removing Terminator honors entirely and replacing them with Dreadnought honors, though the Crux Terminatus is a pretty big deal and I'd rather keep it around. Have Dreadnought honors be second-tier or something like that.

 

Much as I like this battle-cry... aren't the Dreadnoughts in command? So wouldn't that mean that they can't give the signal until their subordinates get it in their heads to initiate the order? I can see this resulting in two possible embarrassments: either the Dreadnought really needs to order the charge but can't because the battle-brothers haven't given him his cue, or the battle-brothers keep starting the cry and looking at the Dreadnought, who only says "not yet" instead.

 

That's a good point. I'll have to add a part to that that the Dreadnoughts say to start things off.

 

Well. All my earlier compliments still stand, honest! But I hope this was more helpful than my first post.

 

Thanks! Believe me, I've written enough to be able to take criticism. I love getting it and it definitely helps in the process. This one helped me refine a lot of ideas, once my work schedule dies down a bit I'll be rewriting a lot of the sections.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

Does anyone know how the Iron Hands get their names? I know Ultras are Roman-based, and Ferrus Manus is taken from Latin, but the rest of the names seem a bit random. I'd like to make Dacien into a name that sounds more IH, and have the rest of the chapter take on their own naming conventions.

 

I never said he sounded like an Ultramarine.

 

Maybe take the weakness angle a bit further? The Iron Hand in charge saw clinging to an old identity as a weakness in his new role and so took a name fro the homeworld? Patchy but workable.

[Blacklight]

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

Does anyone know how the Iron Hands get their names? I know Ultras are Roman-based, and Ferrus Manus is taken from Latin, but the rest of the names seem a bit random. I'd like to make Dacien into a name that sounds more IH, and have the rest of the chapter take on their own naming conventions.

 

I never said he sounded like an Ultramarine.

 

Maybe take the weakness angle a bit further? The Iron Hand in charge saw clinging to an old identity as a weakness in his new role and so took a name fro the homeworld? Patchy but workable.

 

That could work, especially if I make him a fanatical sort of Iron Hand. That would 1) let him have a reason to start up the cult once he becomes a dread and 2) let him take a new name. It is iffy, but like you said, could work it out somehow.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

Does anyone know how the Iron Hands get their names? I know Ultras are Roman-based, and Ferrus Manus is taken from Latin, but the rest of the names seem a bit random. I'd like to make Dacien into a name that sounds more IH, and have the rest of the chapter take on their own naming conventions.

 

I never said he sounded like an Ultramarine.

 

Maybe take the weakness angle a bit further? The Iron Hand in charge saw clinging to an old identity as a weakness in his new role and so took a name fro the homeworld? Patchy but workable.

 

That could work, especially if I make him a fanatical sort of Iron Hand. That would 1) let him have a reason to start up the cult once he becomes a dread and 2) let him take a new name. It is iffy, but like you said, could work it out somehow.

 

It just requires explanation, as does everything.

[Blacklight]

Okay. Another thing I was thinking on.

 

I'm torn between melee and ranged focus. I want them to be one or the other, but I can't really decide which fits better. I like both equally, so it's a matter of which fits better for the chapter.

 

If I go with melee, I was thinking of using either the C:BT or C:BA as a base. If I go with ranged, I was planning on using the C:DA.

 

Any ideas?

 

I like the Blood Angels codex because of the Furioso dreads... Blood Talons are nasty. I'd be renaming everything so that they aren't Blood Angels related, though - it's purely from a gaming point of view. I also like the Black Templar, as their armor and overall aesthetic is awesome. I'm planning on getting the Black Templar venerable dreadnought from Forge World once I get some skill with painting and making it my chapter master's dread. I also sort of like the rules for the Black Templar, though I haven't read the Blood Angels one.

 

The Dark Angels, I must admit, I haven't read at all. I hear they're good for ranged, which is why I picked them, but other than that I don't know anything. And they have Mortis dreads.

 

Now I realize most of this has nothing to do with the IA as a whole, but the choice to swing melee or ranged does. Like I said, I'm split 50/50 either way. I'm probably going to remove the Sappers from the IA, as they just break the believability, but the tunnels will remain.

 

Enough rambling. Thoughts?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Thoughts?

 

Why can't I maintain a relationship with a woman?

 

But talking about your ideas; why are you torn? Why not the combined-arms focus that most Chapters display?

[Blacklight]

But talking about your ideas; why are you torn? Why not the combined-arms focus that most Chapters display?

 

I think it just comes down to my OCD IRL again. Personally I prefer having a superiority in one way or the other - having a mix isn't my thing. I know tactically it's a bit dodgy but my preference is to swing one way or the other. I guess I could do both, but like I said, I'd like them to be 'masters' of one type of combat instead of being good with either. Writing-wise I could justify both by having the tunnels they fight in be either smooth, long corridors like I initially wrote them or have them be like natural caverns, ideal for melee fighting.

[Plague Angel]

As stated, he sounds like an Ultra.

 

Does anyone know how the Iron Hands get their names? I know Ultras are Roman-based, and Ferrus Manus is taken from Latin, but the rest of the names seem a bit random. I'd like to make Dacien into a name that sounds more IH, and have the rest of the chapter take on their own naming conventions.

 

I never said he sounded like an Ultramarine.

 

Ah, apologies. I misspoke. As stated by Juan, he does not sound like an Iron Hand — (to which I personally then add) he sounds like an Ultramarine to me.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

But talking about your ideas; why are you torn? Why not the combined-arms focus that most Chapters display?

 

I think it just comes down to my OCD IRL again. Personally I prefer having a superiority in one way or the other - having a mix isn't my thing. I know tactically it's a bit dodgy but my preference is to swing one way or the other. I guess I could do both, but like I said, I'd like them to be 'masters' of one type of combat instead of being good with either. Writing-wise I could justify both by having the tunnels they fight in be either smooth, long corridors like I initially wrote them or have them be like natural caverns, ideal for melee fighting.

 

Well, the man-up and pick one.

[Blacklight]

Well, the man-up and pick one.

 

Heh, I'll give it some more thought - next revision I'll decide for sure.