Grizzly Adams Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 After looking at the models and reading their codex entry, i knew i had to have the models. The sprues were great, i was all excited, got them put together and threw them in my next list and waited for the carnage to come. Since that day, i have used them quite a few times, and each time i felt as though they underperformed or did not live up to my expectations. Maybe i expect too much from my golden boys, maybe i just get bad rolls, i dont know, but i just feel like the 200pts could be better spent elsewhere. Has anyone else had the same experiences? if not, what are you doing tactically in order to have success with the unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I run an entire army of them and they always perform well, I would suggest attaching a Sanguinary Priest to the unit for Feel No Pain and Furious Charge. Deep striking them isn't always a good idea because you want these guys to get into combat asap. Maybe adding a few Infernus Pistols aswell just so you can pop tanks or kill heavy infantry :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I almost always have a single unit of them in my armies. The key I've found to make them feel like they are pulling their weight is to use them as either a coutner charge unit or assault them into something you know they are capable of taking down. A Sanguinary Priest is an excellent addition but not a complete must (assuming you can get them Furious Charge from somewhere else), I've also taken to adding a libby to them for Unleashed Rage. One of my favorite game moments thus far with my Sang Guard has been against my friends Tyranids. I allowed him to assauly his flying Hive Tyrant and 20 Gargoyles into a 10 man ASM squad, they took some casualties but survived the assault into my turn when I assaulted my Sang Guard and Priest into his gargoyles and killed the 17 remaining gargoyles, the Tyrant killed a few more ASM but due to fearless at combat resolution he was forced to make 17 armor saves. This is bar none my favorite way to kill Tyranid MC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Loken Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I've used em once or twice. First game they killed everything they came into contact with, the second they got an Orbital Bombardment to the face and the third time the killed everything again. They need a Sanguinary Priest attached I think. If I take them I put them as Astoraths retinue with the SP attached. They kill so much then it's awesome. But I rarely field them nowadays unless it's a big game due to the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazer Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I've just recently begun using my Sanguinary Guard in a DoA list. What I've learned is that they aren't a unit you can just let go on their own to take care of business. Instead, they are a support element, as mentioned above, for counter charging and for tying things up. The 2+ is nice but Feel No Pain makes them much more hardy. I also keep them near my Shield Librarian so that in case of Orbital Bombardments and the like, I can get them some sort of save. Use them in conjunction with other assault squads, or to clean up enemies which have been weakened and they'll do you proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I haven't built mine yet, but the box is laying there tempting me.. I think afte I've built and played my 1500 point list I may add a unit in with some ugrades (to them and my force in general) and try out a 1750 game with them to see. I think I'd run them behind a RAS or Baals to wreck some weakened squads or countercharge to help out. I'm finding this topic really useful to planning what I want to use them for Malatox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I've started to write a tactica article about the Sanguinary Guard, and when finished, I'll upload it to the Librarium, maybe it is worth the read for you. It's a complete analysis of the unit entry and abilites of the SG based on my experiences from a decent numbers of battles. Only a small contribution to the BA subforum, but it might help those who struggle with this very special unit. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Generally Sanguard are anti infantry and an example of a good combat unit. They will inflict heavy losses on whatever they hit and are very capable of resisting normal weapon attacks, even more so with Feel No Pain. They are primary a counter attack unit designed to crush any units your assault squads tie up. In pure jetpack squads, they are the hammer to the Assualt Marines anvel. Obivously they have resistance issues, low AP is painful, but thats what assualt squads are for, to pin down the squad while the Sanguard go to work. They are mobile enough to find cover to provide them a inval save and fast enough to get into combat, just got to make sure they really are part of the list. Sanguard really do need protection and distractions to prevent them being flattened by low AP fire. Though at least they can take the standard issue missles and only let 1 in 6 missles through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 As I don't fight too many highly mobile armies, I find that I'd rather buy a squad of Assault Terminators than SanGuard... It seems such a shame, because I love the models but (to me) their rules and cost just don't stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 First off, I love SG. The good: SG are a great value for their point cost! (not to mention beautiful models) The Bad: You are paying for things that you probably won't get the most out of: Glaive Encarmines and Angelus Boltguns. To get the most out of your SG you should try to get the most out of their gear: -Knowing that Glaive Encarmines scale better (compared to other power weapons) when you add more attacks, you might want to give them a Chapter Banner (+1 attack). You might want to include an HQ like the Sanguinor and have the SG hang out near him for his Aura of Fervour (also +1 attack). -You might want to include Commander Dante and put the SG in a unit with him. Not only does this allow SG to count as a Troop choice, but you can make use of Surgical Strike to give the unit Hit and Run to make the most of the Angelus Boltguns you are paying for. Just like a bad corporate seminar, synergy is the buzzword. It is no good to be getting great value out of their point cost if you aren't going to be using all of that value. The Ugly: SG are a luxury item in a list. You don't absolutely need them in any list. As you can see, it starts costing a ton of points and an HQ choice to get the most out these guys, making it really hard to find a place for them unless you've built your list around them. P.S. Obviously you want to keep a SP around models that are this expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Also for a good hard hitting squad that can take out most heavy infantry on the charge and the ability to destory the heaviest of armour. I run a squad with Dante, Chpater Banner and each member has an infernus Pistol giving you 5 S8 AP1 Melta shots. I tend to attach a SP in there aswell just to make sure they can survive small arms fire but just watch out for AP1 and 2 weaponry that will make mincemeat of your SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 thing withthem is, most of the things that kill maines still kill them. plasma, melta powerweapons... and the dont got the numbers to take casultys. sang priests may help but fnp is ignored by those weapons. i think a libby would be a bigger addition to the unit with sheild of sanguinius. also i think all the pistols should be advoided and the unit kept as a purely anti infantry unit. if you are sending a sanguard squad to fire a few melta shots at a tank, then you are not only wasting the angelus bolters, but also the power waepons and the ability to be locked in cc, which dosent seem lik a good idea... unless of course accompanying dante or in a sanguard army and you are using them as a prety much anti armour unit as you have little alternative... they excell at killing fodder and just general troops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 They seem to be a waste versus units that they're effective against but too fragile to handle other elite units. The optimal unit they could engage would be a Devastator squad, and I don't think I've seen one fielded in years in my store. Second would be a tactical or chaos marine squad, but these squads will have a weapon that can ignore the SanGuard's 2+ save and even should the Shinies get the charge (with FC) they wouldn't wipe out the squad. Paying 40pts per model standard is a real killer if they have no Invulnerable save. They have the advantage of mobility but that's it, otherwise they lose out against a squad of Assault Terminators. True, your Termies will usually require a mode of transport, but a Storm Raven or Land Raider is worth the cost. Here's the core problem with the Sanguinary Guard, I think: As a Blood Angels player, I have plenty of units that are already adept at killing normal PA squads. Vanguard Vets, Dreadnoughts, even regular Assault Marines with a priest are more than a match for a typical MEQ squad. I don't need to pay a premium points' cost for a small unit that will cost me 260pts (2 IPs, Fist+Banner, not to mention the added JP priest) and doesn't even score unless I take Dante. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Aye, which is why if you take Sanguard, you can't really take just one of them, you need several other threats to distract them really. When taking a unit, often taking a couple of of it means that one will arrives. It's been used with vindies for a good while and other such threats that are not so on their own, but are in groups. What are they going to shoot? The Devs dropping rockets/other heavy weapons onto them or the ever reliable assualt marines hunting their transports. Provided theres threats everywhere, it's rarely a simple case. In short, is giving termies jetpacks in exchange for a power weapon and removal of the inval save? Depends. I think the trade offs are fair. I think they can be dangerous as thunder wolf given the right situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grazer Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think that an Infernus Pistol and/or Plasma Pistol is a great addition to the squad as it can help to soften up the units you intend to charge. Also, since Sanguard can't assault the turn they drop in, the pistols are useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think if you want to use them then they will function best as a retinue for Dante along with a Sanguinary Priest. They become a very powerful unit and are scoring as well. I field mine with the chapter banner, two infernus pistols and a power fist. They don't have an invulnerable save so you have to be very careful with them - one pie plate from a demolisher cannon and they are toast. I prefer both Honor Guard and Vanguard veterans over SG since the former two units can take stormshields. G :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I don't need to pay a premium points' cost for a small unit that will cost me 260pts (2 IPs, Fist+Banner, not to mention the added JP priest) and doesn't even score unless I take Dante. That 60 points is under 'nice to have' not essential. No need to inflate the points costs with stuff you don't really need. Banner can be overkill, powerfists and Meltas don't compliment the Glaives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 i also run and army of sang guard, one unit has dante and chapter banner with sang priest and infernus pistols, power house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I like them. Add Dante and they're scoring O.o. As others have said, they're a good counter charge unit. I would suggest using a dread or something else to bog a unit down, then have sang guards come in and finish them off. Giving them a priest is mighty good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It's a very 'Eldarish' unit. Good value for it's points in it's niche element, poor when it's trying to go outside that role. Hence powerfists and inferno pistols don't really help because you're wasting the rest of the unit's potential, and regular Assault Squads do Melta/Powerfists better. But Sang guard will eat a regular Assault squad on the charge. They have their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I like playing them. I always play them with a Banner and no Power Fist alongside a Priest with Power Sword. This gives you a tough and highly mobile Assault unit which has 25 Power Weapon attacks on the charge on Initiative 5 with possibly 5 rerolls. And unless what they attack is already in assault you open up with 11 bolter rounds as well. This will take down many other hammer units before they have a chance to strike back. I believe taking a power fist and infernus pistols is a waste of points for them. The PF and IP are anti tank weapons, you don't need anti tank on this squad. You build the rest of your army to have anti tank. Because when you take both options you loose other good things for them: The Angelus Boltgun is a great weapon to open an assault with and the Glaive is a wonderful sidearm for it because it gives you statistically something near an extra attack without having a pistol in the off-hand. I see them as a Hammer unit you need to bring in like a Scalpel. Be careful with bringing them where you need them, and once they are there: Enjoy the carnage! My last 1700 game vs my friend's Orkz this unit killed: - A 6 man Nob Biker Squad + Warboss on my side of the table (after they were lured in assault by a RAS) - A Big Mech with 10 Burna Boyz around my home objective (after their battlewagon was destroyed by my LR) - A squad of Shoota Boyz on the far objective (after their trukk was destroyed by my LR) Taking out 2 HQs + retinue and a key scoring unit is a performance you can't ask of any other squad we have. But Sang Guard have the mobility and hitting power to do it, as long as you use the rest of your army to get the juicy targets ready for them. But that is the key to synergy gaming, which in my eyes is the key to Blood Angels succes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I guess i have been expecting too much out of them, i am used to my Death Co., you just throw em at somebody and stand back. I need to learn a lil finesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm starting to think that people are right, taking anything but a Banner with them is a waste of points unless you're going entirely SanGuard for your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm starting to think that people are right, taking anything but a Banner with them is a waste of points unless you're going entirely SanGuard for your army. I think I'm with you there, This has seriously persuaded me to give them a banner and that's it Malatox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Can openers! When I take SG in a DoA list I find I don't have an overwhelming number of marines. This means I don't have an abundance of can openers. My VV are certainly not a can opening unit, as I am paying their premium cost for their Heroic Intervention. Because of this, my SG need to contribute to the can opening and I tend to include 2 IPs in a unit of SGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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