Midgard Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 So anyway... I've been re-reading "False Gods", and just thought of something that doesn't quite make sense. Accordingly to the novel, Horus was raised on Chtonia before the Emperor made it there. It is also my understanding that the first Primarch (Horus) was rediscovered after the end of Unification Wars. This is where it gets really odd. Iacton Qruze, a Chtonian, is mentioned as fighting in Unification Wars, and Chtonia is said to be close enough to Terra to be within reach of even non-Warp-capable spacecraft (probably about 10 light years or so at most, maybe even less, considering that the star positions will be quite different in 28,000 years from now). It is possible that the Emperor took some Astartes recruits from outside Terra even before the Unification Wars were completed, but then, it would be pretty difficult for him to take recruits from Chtonia that would be young enough to be remade into Astartes AND participate in Unification Wars AND Great Crusade before Horus is discovered. Theoretically it might be possible (although it would require a lot of stretching the limits of suspending disbelief) - although it is hard to believe that the Emperor would actively recruit on Chtonia until after Horus is found. If Qruze was recruited after Horus was found or around the same time, he wouldn't have been as obsessed with times before Horus was around. Otherwise, there is a major time gap in continuity, especially since the Emperor seems to have little problem locating the Primarchs once their home worlds are found. Anyone else found it peculiar? Or am I missing something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Where does it state specifically that Qurze was Cthonian? Also, from that other thread, the whole Qurze is "old Legion" isn't to do with age but with mindset. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 The end of "Galaxy in Flames" makes it very explicit that Qruze was a Chtonian - hence the chapter subtitle "The Last Chtonian". I thought it was also pretty explicitly stated (mainly in "Galaxy in Flames", if I recall it correctly) that Qruze's position in the Legion is due to his accomplishments and importance prior to Horus being found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 But has it been mentioned that Qruze was a full Astartes? Maybe he was some sort of proto-Astartes, kind of like Luther of the Dark Angels and Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaboom Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 But has it been mentioned that Qruze was a full Astartes? Maybe he was some sort of proto-Astartes, kind of like Luther of the Dark Angels and Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers. According to the novels (just re-read Galaxy in Flames), Qruze is considered a full Astartes, and he´s also a Cthonian, so the mistake remains there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Horus could have landed after Qruze was picked, but before the war. The Emperor could have gotten some recruits from Chtonia, and then come back to find Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Or, the Unification Wars being spoken of aren't the Unification Wars of Terra, but perhaps a Unification War on Cthonia, where Qruze took the field with Horus before the coming of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If that's correctly described, it's an error. I thought he was Terran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The end of "Galaxy in Flames" makes it very explicit that Qruze was a Chtonian - hence the chapter subtitle "The Last Chtonian". I haven't gone back to the start of the series in a very lokng time, so my memory was fuzzy. You can explain it away, but it's still strange. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Where specifically does it say Qruze is Cthonian? I read it that he was a terran marine - the narrative certainly implies this The subtitle 'The last Cthonian' is probably a nod to Loken being the last loyal Luna Wolf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I was certain that Iacton was a Terran, also from what i remember when Horus is talking about a story with him and the Emperor he is still a boy, so not yet fully grown and Primarchs grow quick Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Where specifically does it say Qruze is Cthonian? I read it that he was a terran marine - the narrative certainly implies this The subtitle 'The last Cthonian' is probably a nod to Loken being the last loyal Luna Wolf It is made pretty explicit in "Galaxy in Flames" that Qruze is the titular "last Chtonian", as he reminisces about the code of honor prevalent amongst the underhive gangs of Chtonia in a way that only someone from that environment would. At least that is the way I have read it. I wonder if BL will ever explain on the apparent discrepancy... I am re-reading "False Gods" now and will be re-reading "Galaxy in Flames" next, so perhaps I'll find something I missed the first time around to explain it away, but I doubt it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Where specifically does it say Qruze is Cthonian? I read it that he was a terran marine - the narrative certainly implies this The subtitle 'The last Cthonian' is probably a nod to Loken being the last loyal Luna Wolf It is made pretty explicit in "Galaxy in Flames" that Qruze is the titular "last Chtonian", as he reminisces about the code of honor prevalent amongst the underhive gangs of Chtonia in a way that only someone from that environment would. Again, maybe it's more demeanour than actual genetic heritage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm pretty sure Iacton Qruze was Terran. Maybe he's considered C'thonian because he was with the Legion for such a long time that he became more like them. Kinda like being adopted by another culture Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2614761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
As7-k Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So anyway... I've been re-reading "False Gods", and just thought of something that doesn't quite make sense. Accordingly to the novel, Horus was raised on Chtonia before the Emperor made it there. It is also my understanding that the first Primarch (Horus) was rediscovered after the end of Unification Wars. ... Anyone else found it peculiar? Or am I missing something? Where does it say that Horus was raised on Chtonia? I recall Loken thinking about how Horus speaks Chtonian with the accent of the least respected gangs. Loken then wonders if this was a delibrate choice Horus made or if it was the dialect of the Luna Wolf who taught him the language. Of course after 10 minutes of flipping through all three books I can not seem to find the passage, so I maybe way off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 As7-k that line does exist. I can see your point but if Horus wasn't raised on Cthonia then why is it the legion homeworld? Assuming Argel Tal's visions of the Primarchs landing was real then Horus definitely landed somewhere that sounds like Cthonia. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So anyway... I've been re-reading "False Gods", and just thought of something that doesn't quite make sense. Accordingly to the novel, Horus was raised on Chtonia before the Emperor made it there. It is also my understanding that the first Primarch (Horus) was rediscovered after the end of Unification Wars. ... Anyone else found it peculiar? Or am I missing something? Where does it say that Horus was raised on Chtonia? I recall Loken thinking about how Horus speaks Chtonian with the accent of the least respected gangs. Loken then wonders if this was a delibrate choice Horus made or if it was the dialect of the Luna Wolf who taught him the language. Of course after 10 minutes of flipping through all three books I can not seem to find the passage, so I maybe way off. What i got from that part was that maybe Horus was not raised in the bad part or the "Hood". He later acted like he was, to gain the respect of those who did. He was "Fronting" or was a "Poser". A rich kid who wanted to be from street. An up town guy who like the down town World...... These thoughts were like a crack on Loken's trust windshield to the Warmaster, that grew to shatter after not being fixed. To many bumps in the road and changes of temp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I've got this image of Horus being the girl in Common People now, and Jervis Cocker taking him to the local Super Market. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'd have to re-read it, but my reading of that was that he spoke in the slang of the worst, as in nastiest not weakest, gangs, and that Loken found it amusing because it was achieving it's desired affect, making his troops feel he was less removed from them than might otherwise be the case. I think Horus was too sharp a politician to get something wrong like what accent from his homeworld makes him look like a badass common man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 So anyway... I've been re-reading "False Gods", and just thought of something that doesn't quite make sense. Accordingly to the novel, Horus was raised on Chtonia before the Emperor made it there. It is also my understanding that the first Primarch (Horus) was rediscovered after the end of Unification Wars. ... Anyone else found it peculiar? Or am I missing something? Where does it say that Horus was raised on Chtonia? I recall Loken thinking about how Horus speaks Chtonian with the accent of the least respected gangs. Loken then wonders if this was a delibrate choice Horus made or if it was the dialect of the Luna Wolf who taught him the language. Of course after 10 minutes of flipping through all three books I can not seem to find the passage, so I maybe way off. Horus' Chaos-induced vision during "False Gods" makes references to him landing on Chtonia and being raised there, which, presumably, agrees with his own memories of being found on Chtonia (at least this is what I got out of the novel). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I distinctly remember reading that Horus was NOT raised on Cthonia which I thought was really strange, and I think I remember Iacton Qruze being Cthonian and really old (age-wise, not in his views). I finished Horus Rising just a couple of days ago, so this stuff is pretty fresh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Like some others, I remember him being described as Terran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allfather1 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I got the impression that Horus was found on Chtonia, but that he was found early by the Emperor and that he in fact was raised by him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2616966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Horus was found on Cthonia, but was not raised in the reigon, that his accent is taken from. That was a subtle political move by Horus to show himself as being one with his legion. Qruze talks about terra & the unification wars so I also took him as being Terran in the same way that Garro was. However in GiF is does descirbe him as being Cthonian too. Perhaps he was one of the 1st, & therefore adopted the manners of his terran seniors as his own/ Either way I think it's a mistake, as he talks about the legion prior to Horus, so he should be Terran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2617061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But here is something for you in The Last Church it is just after the Unification Wars and the Emperor has not created the Primarchs at this point so how did Iacton serve in the Unification wars if he was already part of the Legion, because at this point there would have been no geneseed to create the legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219189-chtonia-horus-and-qruze-major-discrepancy-in-continuity/#findComment-2617098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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