MadBright Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 do you think the emperor at any point in is life had a religion? Like did he worship anyone or anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Tread cautiously here with regard to discussing any real world religions (per the "OBEY" link in my signature). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBright Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 its not off topic im wondering if he might have any personal dealings regarding religion that made him either lose faith in anything or made him loathe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think he means don't start talking about real-world religions. As in don't get a religious debate started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Had it been off topic or otherwise violated the forum rules, I would have nuked the discussion. As it is, there's room for legitimate discussion without discussing real world religions. As long as the discussion remains within the parameters established by the board rules, it will be allowed to continue. If it strays, it will receive the meltagun treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If we go by the Emperors old backstory of being the combined souls of thousands of dead shamans who forsaw the need for a being so in tune with the world, and the powers of the mind, that they accellerated their eventual destruction to bring him into existance..... Then the Emperor would likely, at a young age, been an animist. Many shamanic traditions believe in the 'souls', 'spirits' or 'energies' of the world around them- from animals to rocks or trees, or elemental spirits and gosts depending on the area of the world and their particular traditions. It is therefore likely that he himself believed these things, particularly with the evidence provided by his ability to interact with the Warp. Over time that would have, via the 40k mythos, gone from being his 'religious' beliefs to simply being a scientific fact like gravity, inertia, etc. We know that many old myths, and in turn some religions, were based off the emperor, his stories, or his exploits. He in turn would not have been amongst the faithful as he would have known the truth of the matter at hand- that he was not a god, didnt make the world from the inside of a tortoise shell or save the human race from drowning etc etc. Thus, with the exception of rare pockets of undeveloped people and some very rare pagan elements in the world the emperors personal beliefs at any time in his life were unlikely to be like those of anyone currently living- and even where there are similarities the knowledge of such things and his approach to them will have been unlike anything we know currently- much like the Emperor is unlike anything we know currently. In particular, your quest- did he worship anything or anyone? I dont think so. Its a very rare shamanic tradition where any one entity is considered an object of worship- the arrangements are more like family doing favors for each other, or a business arrangement. The entities involved simply arent the objects of worship, but rather respect, fear, or awe- an important if subtle difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think it's made clear he's seen plenty of what has happened in the name of religion (he specifically mentions the original inquisition) and decided based on that that religion is a negative influence. Also, I think he has an innate understanding of the warp and psychic energy that in universe are the basis if all supernatural and religious manifestations. So, in universe, expecting the Emperor to have ever held any religious faith would be like expecting any modernly educated man to worship a thunder god for making weather - the idea of doing so would seem absurd as it just doesn't remotely fit with how we know things actually work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If we go by the Emperors old backstory of being the combined souls of thousands of dead shamans who forsaw the need for a being so in tune with the world, and the powers of the mind, that they accellerated their eventual destruction to bring him into existance..... Then the Emperor would likely, at a young age, been an animist. Many shamanic traditions believe in the 'souls', 'spirits' or 'energies' of the world around them- from animals to rocks or trees, or elemental spirits and gosts depending on the area of the world and their particular traditions. It is therefore likely that he himself believed these things, particularly with the evidence provided by his ability to interact with the Warp. Over time that would have, via the 40k mythos, gone from being his 'religious' beliefs to simply being a scientific fact like gravity, inertia, etc. We know that many old myths, and in turn some religions, were based off the emperor, his stories, or his exploits. He in turn would not have been amongst the faithful as he would have known the truth of the matter at hand- that he was not a god, didnt make the world from the inside of a tortoise shell or save the human race from drowning etc etc. Thus, with the exception of rare pockets of undeveloped people and some very rare pagan elements in the world the emperors personal beliefs at any time in his life were unlikely to be like those of anyone currently living- and even where there are similarities the knowledge of such things and his approach to them will have been unlike anything we know currently- much like the Emperor is unlike anything we know currently. In particular, your quest- did he worship anything or anyone? I dont think so. Its a very rare shamanic tradition where any one entity is considered an object of worship- the arrangements are more like family doing favors for each other, or a business arrangement. The entities involved simply arent the objects of worship, but rather respect, fear, or awe- an important if subtle difference. Wait, wait, wait,... i thought the back story for the emperor was that some ancient alien race came to earth sometime pre christ and took the emperor and enhanced him to the limit of human endurance both physically and mentally until we get what we have now. the almighty god emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Whoa whoa whoa. Heresy overload! The Emperor is a xenos construct??? Never heard that one. The shaman story is what GW went with, back in the day when the wanted to get into such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Personally, I find both versions to be ludicrously overdone. There was nothing wrong with the Emperor simply being born during the Age of Strife and being the only guy with the power and the plan to unify Terra and embark on the Crusade, who outlasted all his rivals and forged his Astartes through wartime experimentation. Any history prior to that isn't relevant to M30 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Wait, wait, wait,... i thought the back story for the emperor was that some ancient alien race came to earth sometime pre christ and took the emperor and enhanced him to the limit of human endurance both physically and mentally until we get what we have now. the almighty god emperor. Where did you find such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Personally, I find both versions to be ludicrously overdone. There was nothing wrong with the Emperor simply being born during the Age of Strife and being the only guy with the power and the plan to unify Terra and embark on the Crusade, who outlasted all his rivals and forged his Astartes through wartime experimentation. Any history prior to that isn't relevant to M30 and beyond. Yeah I think that would be better rather than waiting around for thousands upon thousands of years to take control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think the Emperor is a short-sighted realist and understandably so. If you live for a few thousand years and see Humanity's rise it becomes very clear that Religion provides a focus and justification for almost anything. Look at all the wars caused by and justified by religion and I'm not just talking about the mono-theistic big three. Every continent and every culture has had the same dificulties. Now the Emperor decided to abolish religion, to forbid faith and he did it for pureand good reasons to try and save the Human race from it's self-destructive cycle. however this is where he became short-sighted. Humans NEED faith, we need something to believe in and in the absence of a deity we will create one to sustain that need for faith. Since he was trapped on the golden throne the Emperor has become that focus, the deity that Humans need to believe in. it's why the Chaos "gods" are defined as gods because Humans NEED gods, it seems hardwired into us as a sentient species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Im not sure its the need for a god so much as it is a need for order in the world around us. Dieties can handily sum that up for us "it is the will of our god(s) thats why", some people find that order in science, others in morality. Some never notice a lack... either they dont have it or they lack the critical self evaluation skills to find whats 'missing'. The Emperor in his quasi-perfection understands how the universe operates as a whole. The world is ordered for him, and so this need would be fulfilled from early on. .... wich makes some of his errors all the worse in my opinion. The Primarchs in turn needed no gods. They had their cause, their reason for being, in the great crusade. With Lorgar being obvious exception sadly. Space Marines on the other hand seem to, in general, follow a rather simple form of ancestor worship- our primarch was awesome and we venerate his name. The emperor was even more awesome, and he looks over us as our liege, protector, and guide. Etc etc etc. The emperium as a whole worships the emperor... and I sometimes wonder what the influence on him those daily sacrifices cause.... after all if we read the fluff for eldar, orks, and to a lesser extent chaos the dieties in the 40k universe are an extension of the personalities and experiences of their followers. To have that faith, experiance, and perhaps a rather fear-ladden emotional burst sent into your own soul day after day for thousands of years.... can even the emperor of mankind withstand the psychic trauma? On the other hand, It IS the Emperor. Not only that, but he consumes their souls and channels them into the astronomicon... it could be that their problems are never abosrbed into him such is the power and circuitry of the golden throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I think in older fluff the Emperor was numerous major figures throughout history- including some well known ones. So- he may have been worshipped- under a different name. Not sure if anything had him, say, worshipping something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well the Emperor was certainly alive in medievil period as mentioned in the HH series. Now as for whether the Emperor believed in a higher power, i would say no. He knew of the Gods (Warp Entities & Star Leeches), but i think he never considered them gods and certainly never worshipped them himself. He probably just played the waiting game, perhaps for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.