uhefter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Sitting on the golden throne, the Emperor ponders the universe. The walls start to shake, protective wards are shattered, and in pops Magnus. Immediately followed by a gaggle of daemons. So, after the daemons get tossed back into the warp, the Emperor remains on the throne, using his psychic might to keep the webway sealed. Now, considering that the astronomican is a projection of his will, and was up and running while he was out fighting the crusade, I'm taking it as he doesn't need to be physically connected to it. So then, did no one consider pulling the world's biggest plug on the webway/golden throne? It seems that the rift was sealed, no more daemons pouring out, so, why not just shut it off? I feel I'm obviously over simplifying things, but it seems the simple solution. And on a side note, if daemons were able to get into the material and inside the throne room, why didn''t the chaos gods dump the barrel of monkeys and throw all they could at the Emperor then? Although time isn't a big deal in the warp, it would seem a far more simple solution then going through Horus and everyone else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Do we really know that the Emperor was even working on a web way portal? I've always wondered this because I have never read the source where this is stated. Is it in the Collected Visions series? To be honest, I think the Emperor's plan for humanity was greater than "look I know how to use a web way portal". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2621931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 He planned to colonize the webway if I recall, thinking humanity would be safe from Chaos or something... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Sitting on the golden throne, the Emperor ponders the universe. The walls start to shake, protective wards are shattered, and in pops Magnus. Immediately followed by a gaggle of daemons. So, after the daemons get tossed back into the warp, the Emperor remains on the throne, using his psychic might to keep the webway sealed. Now, considering that the astronomican is a projection of his will, and was up and running while he was out fighting the crusade, I'm taking it as he doesn't need to be physically connected to it. So then, did no one consider pulling the world's biggest plug on the webway/golden throne? It seems that the rift was sealed, no more daemons pouring out, so, why not just shut it off? I feel I'm obviously over simplifying things, but it seems the simple solution. And on a side note, if daemons were able to get into the material and inside the throne room, why didn''t the chaos gods dump the barrel of monkeys and throw all they could at the Emperor then? Although time isn't a big deal in the warp, it would seem a far more simple solution then going through Horus and everyone else. They tried to; they tossed armies of daemons into the webway via the hole Magnus ripped in it and sent them rampaging into the Throne Room. Luckily for the rest of the humanity, there were Custodes and Sisters of Silence there just in case such an incident occurred. If my recollection of Collected Visions is correct, the Custodes and Sisters pushed the daemons back into the webway and fought a holding action to defend the Throne Room; the Emperor's spot on the Throne closed the portal, but not permanently. This is why when he left the Throne to go punch Horus in the face, Malcador took his spot to hold the gate closed, and why when he got back, he had Dorn stick him back on top of it. Without the power of an alpha-plus level psyker to hold it closed, the gate will open again and daemons will come rushing onto Terra. Do we really know that the Emperor was even working on a web way portal? I've always wondered this because I have never read the source where this is stated. Is it in the Collected Visions series? To be honest, I think the Emperor's plan for humanity was greater than "look I know how to use a web way portal". Yes, it was in Collected Visions. Basically, the Golden Throne is a giant piece of techno-arcana that includes a webway portal. He didn't build it; he found it. He planned to colonize the webway if I recall, thinking humanity would be safe from Chaos or something... I believe you are correct. It works for the Dark Eldar, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher441 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Found it? Is that part of the Collected Visions too? I remember the old fluff where the Emperor told Dorn how to build it as he was 'dying'. I had always assumed that the story goes now that he built it, fought Horus, then told Dorn how to modify it to keep him 'alive'. Good old retconns. Anyway, I never thought the Emperor wanted to colonise the webway as such, but rather use it similarly to how the Eldar do and transport things through it, essentially cutting off another link to humanity and its reliance on the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The Emperor was a xenophobic genocide machine. One of the goals might have been to allow for stable Warp transit for his vast armies and human colonists, but those vast armies were going to end up on Eldar craftworlds, ridding the galaxy of their taint forever. The Eldar were aliens and were already doomed for that in his eyes, but when they opted to meddle in the affairs of humans and "prey" on their worlds (whether those worlds were originally Eldar or not was ultimately irrelevant) they signed their species' death warrant in a much more timely and violent manner. The altruistic reason is also the vehicle of revenge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yeh thats right Emperor found the Golden Throne - he also intended Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne once he completed the plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Never heard the "found it" theory about the throne before. It was always that the Emperor started building it and Dorn oversaw it's completion in accordance to the plans the dying Emperor dictated to him. Also, in Mechanicum, you see one of the tech-magos build what was essentially a miniature golden throne which is essentially portrayed as being taken up by those loyal to the Emperor. Will have to go back and check my 'Collected Visions' - was it a reference that was portrayed as definite or speculative? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Never heard the "found it" theory about the throne before. It was always that the Emperor started building it and Dorn oversaw it's completion in accordance to the plans the dying Emperor dictated to him. Also, in Mechanicum, you see one of the tech-magos build what was essentially a miniature golden throne which is essentially portrayed as being taken up by those loyal to the Emperor. Will have to go back and check my 'Collected Visions' - was it a reference that was portrayed as definite or speculative? yes, he FOUND it. i forget specifically where, i believe it was under the the Himalayas, and then he built the palace over it. but seriously guys, take some time and read some of the books from the black library, there really good. and they'll help you understand all the fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alright Vash calm down - if he hasn't read it before you can't moan at him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alright Vash calm down - if he hasn't read it before you can't moan at him. wasant moaning actually, just recommending some good reading material. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alright Vash calm down - if he hasn't read it before you can't moan at him. wasant moaning actually, just recommending some good reading material. :lol: Except you recommended nothing. Why don't you cite a source before lambasting others, because right now the only thing we have to go on about the "found it" theory is your word, and you can't even recall where you read it. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yeah, I've read most of what BL have put out, inc. all the HH stuff and the Collected Visions book, and WDs, codexes and rulebooks going back to 2nd Ed, and I've never heard the "found it" theory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Honestly, I don't remember where I read that he had found it -- but I know I'm not imagining it. I'd hit up Collected Visions, but I'm two continents away from everything except IA:9 and a couple of Codices, so that's not an option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alright Vash calm down - if he hasn't read it before you can't moan at him. wasant moaning actually, just recommending some good reading material. :) Except you recommended nothing. Why don't you cite a source before lambasting others, because right now the only thing we have to go on about the "found it" theory is your word, and you can't even recall where you read it. :P well when youve read over 50 BL 40k books, you start forgetting where specific info is located. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It mentions in the HH story A Thousand Sons that the Emperor found the Golden Throne. And indeed the main reason he is on the golden throne is not to power the Astronomicon, it is to make sure an Army of Deamons does not flood through the webway hole. A Thousand sacrificed Psykers a day is done to keep the Astronomicon going, as in Collected visions the Emperor sanctions this action to help whilst he would hold back the Deamonic tide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm confused. Why would daemons come pouring through a webway portal if Eldar and Dark Eldar use the webway to avoid daemons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If thats the case, it's definitely an addition to the fluff I'm pretty unimpressed by. I mean, whose meant to have made it? Humans during the Dark Age of Technology? Would they have had sufficient understanding of psychic energy? My understanding was it was humanity's lack of understanding of psykers that ended the DAoT and brought on the Age of Strife. Was it a xenos invention? That's not really cool either. It's so much better story wise if the Emperor designed it, even if in doing so he drew upon archaeotech that only he could find/understand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well its a psychic infused powerful technology that the Emperor found. I am not sure where he found it, i dont remember it saying. But some say it's on Earth which if so those who could have left it there could leave only a few aliens to create such a device. The Dragon? Yet being a C'tan he is not really warp related. The Eldar? Maybe, but then i do not think they would have left it? The Old Ones? This would be my guess as they are far advanced and just vanished. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm confused. Why would daemons come pouring through a webway portal if Eldar and Dark Eldar use the webway to avoid daemons? It was abandoned millennia ago by it's previous users and the warp had since claimed it. If thats the case, it's definitely an addition to the fluff I'm pretty unimpressed by. I mean, whose meant to have made it? Humans during the Dark Age of Technology? Would they have had sufficient understanding of psychic energy? My understanding was it was humanity's lack of understanding of psykers that ended the DAoT and brought on the Age of Strife. Was it a xenos invention? That's not really cool either. It's so much better story wise if the Emperor designed it, even if in doing so he drew upon archaeotech that only he could find/understand. It was the Eldars, they were on Terra long before humanity ever inhabited it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2622904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hang on, he found the Throne?! I was under the impression he found the webway gate, and slapped the throne on top of it to protect the palace while he meddled with it, as ripping holes through the warp tends to end poorly. The fact that the old Dorn modifying the Throne fluff exists, combined with Mechanicum having the prototype, and just the general idea that someone created a device that no one at the time could actually use, kind of makes the idea of Emperor Bob rummaging through his shoe closet and going 'oh look, a psychic infused throne of gold, just what I need' seem a bit absurd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2623042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm confused. Why would daemons come pouring through a webway portal if Eldar and Dark Eldar use the webway to avoid daemons? It was abandoned millennia ago by it's previous users and the warp had since claimed it. I thought it was warp free until Magnus inadvertently ripped a big hole in it allowing them to pour through. Without any holes in it daemons can't just wonder in to the webway and I can't imagine there being a pre-existing hole otherwise that place would have been loaded with daemons for thousands of years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2623054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It mentions in the HH story A Thousand Sons that the Emperor found the Golden Throne. And indeed the main reason he is on the golden throne is not to power the Astronomicon, it is to make sure an Army of Deamons does not flood through the webway hole. A Thousand sacrificed Psykers a day is done to keep the Astronomicon going, as in Collected visions the Emperor sanctions this action to help whilst he would hold back the Deamonic tide. Psykers are "burned out" by powering the Astronomicon (which still requires the Emperor's presence to direct it, even if it didn't require him to be on the Golden Throne) but the Emperor himself also requires sacrifices to stay alive. The psykers whose life is drained to feed the Emperor, are a separate group from the Choir of the Astronomicon- less able to control themselves- which is why they're fed to the Emperor instead of going through the Soul Binding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2623062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm confused. Why would daemons come pouring through a webway portal if Eldar and Dark Eldar use the webway to avoid daemons? It was abandoned millennia ago by it's previous users and the warp had since claimed it. If I recall correctly the section of the webway immediatly beyond the Imperial Webway Gate had a breach in it and the warp was spilling in so it was sealed off from the rest of the network. The Emperor had planned to use his immense psychic abilities to push back the warp to the breach so that Mechanicum builders could move into the tunnel and seal the breach with the support of the Custodes and Sisters of Silence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2623065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It mentions in the HH story A Thousand Sons that the Emperor found the Golden Throne. And indeed the main reason he is on the golden throne is not to power the Astronomicon, it is to make sure an Army of Deamons does not flood through the webway hole. A Thousand sacrificed Psykers a day is done to keep the Astronomicon going, as in Collected visions the Emperor sanctions this action to help whilst he would hold back the Deamonic tide. Psykers are "burned out" by powering the Astronomicon (which still requires the Emperor's presence to direct it, even if it didn't require him to be on the Golden Throne) but the Emperor himself also requires sacrifices to stay alive. The psykers whose life is drained to feed the Emperor, are a separate group from the Choir of the Astronomicon- less able to control themselves- which is why they're fed to the Emperor instead of going through the Soul Binding. I do believe in Collected Visions whilst the Emperor is battling the might of the Deamons trying to force themselves to Earth there is a conversation between the Emperor and Malcador. They mention in the lttle story that the Astonomicon is failing because the Emperor's might is to busy with combatting the Deamonic, it is suggested that to keep the Astronomicon going they could sacrifice a thousand psykers to a day to keep its power up, but it would only be a temporary plan. Of course if you look at the Imperium now we can see that still is going on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219769-emperors-webway-portal/#findComment-2623168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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