Iron Lord Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's not clear whether that refers to the ones that are "drained to feed the Emperor" in post Heresy era, the ones that are "burned out" the normal way- or a third category. It could be surmised that when people speak of "a thousand psykers every day to feed the Emperor" what actually happens is those thousand psykers power the Astronomicon. However- this surmise may not be correct. I'm pretty sure that the turnover time for a normal astropath in the Choir of the Astronomicon is more than one day- though I suppose that if there are many thousands in the Choir, a thousand or so might "burn out" each day, even if their lifespan is more like weeks or years. Maybe it really was only a temporary measure? Or maybe the same "thousand psyker daily levy" was given a different job after the Emperor's injury- instead of "feeding the Astronomicon" it became "feeding the Emperor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher441 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If I remember my 3rd ed rulebook fluff correctly, their are two different types sacrificed in the 41st Millenium. Those to power the astronomican, who are strapped in and psychically drained over the course of a few weeks/months (not sure which, either way it is certainly more than a few days), before they are replaced. And the others, who are sacrificed daily to keep the Emperor 'alive'. I'd say that the temporary measure was to sacrifice the psykers to help power the astronomican, however the aftermath of the Heresy required this to be a permanent measure since the Emperor was no longer capable of fighting the daemons in the webway and powering the astronomican on his own. Had he lived I guess he would have been able to put more power into repairing the webway so that his full attention could rest with the astronomican (not counting any switches he would have made with Magnus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hengist Ironfang Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 IIRC it was the human section of the webway that was breached when magnus burst into the throne room, the Emperor was building a small section of webway to connect to the greater Eldar webway, so he could then go on through and conquer it to reduce the risks of travel by warp and to all intensive purposes make the astronomican irellevent if you have the webway you dont need the astronomican to navigate by my guess is that Magnus would control the webway from the throne room. when magnus bust in the imperial section was badly damaged letting in thousands of demons who slaughtered the tech adepts working within and attempted to gain access to terra via the gate behind the golden throne at which point they were met and held by the custodes and sisters of silence, The eldar webway was never threatened by this as afaik the imperial webway was incomplete and hadnt connected to it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My recollection is the same as Hengist's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vash1023 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 ok, current fluffy "facts" (i will sight as many books as i can remember) -the eldar did not create the webway, they just discovered it. -the webway is made of a material that rejects and even injures deamons and even the dark gods themselves which is why they cant enter or damage it (emperors mercy) -warp travel was a "temporary fix" untill the emperor could conquer the webway. (HHCV) -Magnus (infused with the power of one of the dark gods) ripped a hole in the webway in order to warn the emperor about Horus's betrayal. (a thousand sons HH) - the emperor now has a multiple personality mind (i dont believe its referred to as a disorder) so that he can handle all the factions of his day to day life. including controlling the astronomican, turning psykers into astropaths, and consorting with the leaders of terra. (emperors mercy) ok, fluffy opinions/possible future of story - there is a possible way to return the emperor to "life" by transferring his conscious to another body, cloned from his original - if this works, then he can be cloned again (or make another magnus) to control the webway and astronomican. because now that humanity has so many ships and psykers thats turning of the astronomican would doom millions if not billions to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The fragmented mind of the Emperor goes back to the Ian Watson Inquisition War series, and the old Starchild theory, as well. Will have to go check my books whether it was the Old Ones or the Slann who first built the Webway (I'm thinking Codex Necrons might have something on this?). The ancient Eldar were able to build it and navigate it fully, but since the Fall only the Harlequins retain the bulk of that knowledge. The Emperor was definitely constructing a short new section of webway to join the Webway to Terra. It was this part that Magnus broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 - the emperor now has a multiple personality mind (i dont believe its referred to as a disorder) Dissociative identity disorder - is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a condition in which a person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities (known as alter egos or alters), each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 - the emperor now has a multiple personality mind (i dont believe its referred to as a disorder) so that he can handle all the factions of his day to day life.including controlling the astronomican, turning psykers into astropaths, and consorting with the leaders of terra. (emperors mercy) I think it's more apt to say he has a subdivided brain, not multiple personalities. He isn't a woman named Frieda between 8 and 10 PM on Thursdays. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just spent the evening re-reading Collected Visions. It certainly says that the Emperor found the Webway, built by an ancient race, but that's hardly news. Couldn't find anything suggesting the Golden Throne machinery was made by anyone other than the Emperor and his assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The Golden Throne was built on Mars and perfected for an Earth version. What we know is Magnus was the one planned for it and had it turned out the way the Emperor had planned then Humanity would have entered into a golden era. When Magnus realised how much he had screwed things up he desired suicide. Such an extreme reaction points to more than The Emperor was planning on using a Warp Gate to invade Eldar Craftworlds, as does the fact Magnus would be using the Golden throne for "something". So I believe people are looking at things as far too one dimensionally. There is missing evidence here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Was Magnus intended to permanently supposed to sit on the Golden Throne? Or just as punishment for breaking the Human webway section until it was fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think it means literally sitting on it for a long time as a punishment like a kid in the naughty corner. More he was supposed to be taking over what the Emperor was doing psychically regarding the throne. The plans for Magnus came before he messed things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It's so much better story wise if the Emperor designed it, even if in doing so he drew upon archaeotech that only he could find/understand. That's the impression I've gotten from the HH novels (haven't read Collected Visions) - the golden throne was made by the Emperor combining his brilliance with archaeotech that he can't personally reproduce. The description of the throne room when Magnus makes his big mistake in Thousand Sons makes this pretty clear, and I think Mechanicus mentions the Emperor taking some kind of golden-throne-like artifact from Mars to Earth. Was Magnus intended to permanently supposed to sit on the Golden Throne? Or just as punishment for breaking the Human webway section until it was fixed? It wasn't a punishment, Magnus was sad that he wouldn't be able to do that after his error. I think that the Emperor's plan was for Magnus to take over running the throne once it the Emperor finished his work on it and the webway. And that running the throne was an interesting and dynamic channeling of vast forces, something that Magnus would enjoy, not imprisonment and a dull drain on his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I was just confused and bewildered that the Emperor would go to all that trouble of creating Magnus a legion just for him to take up the Emperors role on the throne, would seem like a waste of resources; he could have just created Magnus and avoid the whole flesh change incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I thought Magnus was created with the Great crusade in mind, but as time progressed the Emperor found the Golden Throne and Magnus seemed the perfect candidate Malatox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I was just confused and bewildered that the Emperor would go to all that trouble of creating Magnus a legion just for him to take up the Emperors role on the throne, would seem like a waste of resources; he could have just created Magnus and avoid the whole flesh change incident. The fact he was using the same resources for 2 different things tells me he was good at organising his reasons! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Such an extreme reaction points to more than The Emperor was planning on using a Warp Gate to invade Eldar Craftworlds, as does the fact Magnus would be using the Golden throne for "something". So I believe people are looking at things as far too one dimensionally. There is missing evidence here. If this is the case, then wouldn't the Eldar know? They'd presumably know there was a webway gate on Earth if they put it there and they know a lot about what might happen. Eldrad tried to convince Fulgrim not to turn, but was too late even though Fulgrim didn't know he had turned/was turning. If Eldrad had succeeded in stopping Fulgrim from turning, then the rest of the traitor legions, then Magnus would have ended up on the throne and the legions would have wiped out the Eldar. The Eldar are hot on their cataclysmic events, like the Cabal, and would surely see that coming? Alternatively, if what the Cabal said was true and not just manipulation, then wouldn't it be in the Eldars best interest to aid Horus against the Emperor in return for 10000 years of misery before an infinite amount of peace, especially given the other scenario of the Emperor invading the Eldar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 There wasn't a Webway gate on earth - the Emperor had to build a short section of Webway tunnel to connect Earth to the existing Webway. And as I understand it, the Emperor's plan wasn't to invade the Eldar, but rather to secure the use of an alternate means of faster-than-light transport. If humanity could travel and passing messages near instantaneously via the Webway, they wouldn't need to travel via the Warp, or rely on psykers to act as astropaths or navigators. That was the Emperor's end game IMO. As for why the Eldar didn't help either side first, they probably didn't consider mon-keigh killing each other worth losing any Eldar life over, and second, they may well have foreseen a worse outcome than what actually happened if they were to intervene. In Fulgrim, Eldrad did try to deliver a warning to the Emperor about Horus, but unfortunately chose Fulgrim as his intermediary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Such an extreme reaction points to more than The Emperor was planning on using a Warp Gate to invade Eldar Craftworlds, as does the fact Magnus would be using the Golden throne for "something". So I believe people are looking at things as far too one dimensionally. There is missing evidence here. If this is the case, then wouldn't the Eldar know? They'd presumably know there was a webway gate on Earth if they put it there and they know a lot about what might happen. Eldrad tried to convince Fulgrim not to turn, but was too late even though Fulgrim didn't know he had turned/was turning. If Eldrad had succeeded in stopping Fulgrim from turning, then the rest of the traitor legions, then Magnus would have ended up on the throne and the legions would have wiped out the Eldar. The Eldar are hot on their cataclysmic events, like the Cabal, and would surely see that coming? Alternatively, if what the Cabal said was true and not just manipulation, then wouldn't it be in the Eldars best interest to aid Horus against the Emperor in return for 10000 years of misery before an infinite amount of peace, especially given the other scenario of the Emperor invading the Eldar. Eldrad wouldn't have convinced anyone else if successful with Fulgrim. He had no intention of doing so, that is why he stopped at Fulgrim. Plus, the power of Eldar isn't that they can just invade Earth and win. But I concur, a "mere" Warp Gate is hardly the golden path - there is more to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 There wasn't a Webway gate on earth - the Emperor had to build a short section of Webway tunnel to connect Earth to the existing Webway. And as I understand it, the Emperor's plan wasn't to invade the Eldar, but rather to secure the use of an alternate means of faster-than-light transport. If humanity could travel and passing messages near instantaneously via the Webway, they wouldn't need to travel via the Warp, or rely on psykers to act as astropaths or navigators. That was the Emperor's end game IMO. As for why the Eldar didn't help either side first, they probably didn't consider mon-keigh killing each other worth losing any Eldar life over, and second, they may well have foreseen a worse outcome than what actually happened if they were to intervene. In Fulgrim, Eldrad did try to deliver a warning to the Emperor about Horus, but unfortunately chose Fulgrim as his intermediary. Yeah as far as I can tell this is the extent of his plans. Not really the kinda humanity saving thing you'd expect and I don't really think it justifies the atrocities done in his name. It's not really saved them from chaos or from each other, it just means travelling is a bit safer :lol: Unless he was gonna build his own cities in the webway in which case I can see that as a possible way of saving humanity from chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Maybe it's something you haven't thought of, something GW haven't suggested before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Can't remember the source but can remember the description of the portal in the throne room/webway gate as being tall and wide enough for titans to walk through. Thought this was due to the Emps desire to avoid the warp for travel and create a webway-esque transportation model for humans and would be where the crusade was to go (after uniting galaxy, leave some legions to defend e.g. similarities between each legions, 50% with the Emp and rest to defend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Maybe it's something you haven't thought of, something GW haven't suggested before? Quite possibly and I hope so because the current plan is a bit pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglefists13 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm confused. Why would daemons come pouring through a webway portal if Eldar and Dark Eldar use the webway to avoid daemons? It was abandoned millennia ago by it's previous users and the warp had since claimed it. If thats the case, it's definitely an addition to the fluff I'm pretty unimpressed by. I mean, whose meant to have made it? Humans during the Dark Age of Technology? Would they have had sufficient understanding of psychic energy? My understanding was it was humanity's lack of understanding of psykers that ended the DAoT and brought on the Age of Strife. Was it a xenos invention? That's not really cool either. It's so much better story wise if the Emperor designed it, even if in doing so he drew upon archaeotech that only he could find/understand. It was the Eldars, they were on Terra long before humanity ever inhabited it. Yes as above, its obvious an Eldar design as the webway portal ends up on earth not the other way round. They more than likely left years ago when the first believed Mon-Keigh to be beneath them and to go on there way. It is mentioned at the end of the collected visions that he found the throne and built the palace round it, his one goal was to access the webway and bypass the need for warp travel thus negating a lot of chaos influence and this is the true means and goal of chaos for the whole heresy as this would of represented such a grave threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyx Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hail Brethren, When I read collected visions and found out the E's plan fpr humanity was....the webway, I was REALLY disappointed. I seem to remember in older fluff that the E 's ultimate aim was to help steer humanity safely through its evolution towards a fully fledged psychic race. I think it is in fact in collected visions also, something about building some new psychic machinery to this end is mentioned....I think? I much prefer this idea and hope things go more in that direction soon in the HH series. Probly won't tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.