d503 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think you would have to change the image somewhat, especially for the fleshtearers. They would perhaps be more like beaten-up looking vanguard veterans than winged angels. The winged jump packs and muscle-armour seem much too high maintainence for the utilitarian fleshtearer ethic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Canonically speaking at least, only the Angels Encarmine's Sanguinary Guard looks different; the other successors look the same as the Blood Angels. Remember that Sanguinary Guard aren't just an elite unit like Vanguard Veterans, they're a very specific organization founded during the Great Crusade, and their wargear is hereditary. Flesh Tearers may be less ornate overall, but the Sanguinary Guard artificer armor is part of what being a Sanguinary Guard is. Not using it would be like the pope refusing to wear a mitre because he's not a hat person. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The question is not silly :tu: .There hasn't been any mention of loss of knowledge regarding how to keep specialist gear running, in fact it is the exact oposite, FT gear looks rough on the outside but runs beautifully, it is only the asthetics that are disregarded. And the fluff has changed considerably... Index Astartes = hardly anything except rhinos, razorbacks, and whirlwinds, and of course more death company than other BA abd BA successors ..........Current fluff = equal equipment and troop types to the BAs I know that everyone is able to justify any build they want. But as I stated originally, I want to know what the general consensus is. Just try to keep an open mind and understand that not everyone shares the same perspectives in regards to what is and isn't important about the little toy soldier game that we all love :P Sure it is you're asking a question that cant really be answered. So what you're really asking is what do we all think the Flesh Tearers have in 0.999.999.M41? In which case the IA is probably your best bet. (Which if I remember correctly) is what 3 companies of hardened marines. Lots of rugged Vehicles. Rhinos, Drop Pods, Dreadnoughts, A couple land raiders maybe a couple storm ravens. (Though I have difficulty imagining the whole flying thing working so good for them. And then limited Predators and Whirlwinds. I would argue if you will that Tech Marines being a precious commodity. They would be busily spending much of their time keeping MP weapons and armour functioning. With only a bare few able to focus on keeping up the hardiest of vehicles and rarely a more fanciful support unit. And I think that the Flesh Tearers are certainly starting to lose their knowledge of how to upkeep their tech. The being beaten up is merely a symptom of the problem. When you lose a large portion of your chapter even if the tech priests werent deployed in a battle field roll you'd still be lossing them slowly to the Black Rage and occasional combat deployments would be inevitable. They simply dont have the time to go about these processes entirely. We do all realize that this game spans 10,000 years of history and that the flesh tearers were not 12 guys in a beat up old rhino the day they were founded right? :huh: 3,000 straight years of punishing worlds still loyal to the legacy of Horus, after the death of Emperor, probably didn't help their armory ;) No but you could easily be playing during those years. Or you could be playing after a fresh shipment from the Adeptus Mecanicus arrives for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Keeping them working isnt really the issue. All of their stuff works. It just looks like dog dirt. Or it's destroyed. There's a good paragraph in one of Swallow's books about a Flesh Tearer's Predator that looks like junk but functions perfectly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You know, this thread got me thinking, and... Codex Blood Angels represents a very particular Chapter, and their successors who hold the same doctrines. It represents the units they can and do use. It's not like Codex Space Marines that represents some 900 odd Chapters, or Codex Chaos Space Marines representing various cults and traitors. I have a suspicion. Prove me wrong if you can, I'd be interested to hear it; but I propose: It is impossible to make an "unfluffy" list with Codex: Blood Angels. ...Excepting counts-as. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Land Raider spam list in Flesh Tearers colours. Other than that, I would agree Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2637471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 @ bobmakenzie. I asked the question I intended to. IMHO the FT fluff from the IA days is considerably different from that in the current BA codex. So......... I agree with you that there is not a definite answer to my question, but once again, that is why I am asking the question. The fact that there is not a definite answer is why I started this "conversation". I want to know what everyone thinks and why. I am not looking for one answer. The consensus seems to be that with exception to SamaNagol's Landraider list :) , there aren't any unfluffy FT lists. for the most part the old IA fluff that limits the FTs to rhinos and Whirlwinds has been abandoned. The FTs of today enjoy access to all war gear within reason, and are just so busy kickin' ass that they don't have time to paint ;) I can relate to the no time to paint portion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2639654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaleOpener Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Their fluff, though dated, reflects they're a dying chapter due to the high rate of marines being affected by the Black Rage. With books being relased by FW, many chapters are having new life blown into them. You can easily use the selection in BA codex, claiming your force is the direct result of work being done to halt the chapter's destruction. As well as sticking to the fluff by restricting yourself on using certain selections. I don't believe you'll have someone harping on you about your force. Just my female opinion ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2639697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 And to be honest, including one or 2 tanks outside of transports isn't going to really be out of place for what the FTs can muster anyway I'd maybe raise an eye at 6 predator spam at 1500pts, because that's probably the entire Chapter's armoured support in one go! But other than that don't feel you cannot take everything in the codex for your Flesh Tearers force because back in a previous edition of 40k they had a rule that only let you take one tank. That's a rule, not canonical fluff background material. I never saw a quote from Seth saying 'damnit we are down to our very last Predator!', your force feasibly represent an armoured column of a planetwide Flesh Tearers campaign. It's far more fluffy to run a couple of tanks in Flesh Tearers colours all in one army than it is to run the entireity of the Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard in a single force! And I see people do that all the time. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2639853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 There's no reason not to have them, most of the successors are second founding so would follow the parent closely. Especially considering that, following the Heresy, there was only one single Sanguinary Guardsman* left (Azkaellon), so all of the Chapters including the BA would have to rebuild after the Second Founding split them apart. *That's a term I've never used before, nor have I seen anyone else use it. I kind of like the sound of it. Great term :) I agree that the FTs would build and maintain Sanguinary guardsmen to the best of their ability. Of course they are experiencing heavier losses due to the large amout of brothers entering the death company, but that does not mean that the achievements of those brothers that do not fall are any less worthy of acknowledgement and induction into the Sanguinary Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2648879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 There's no reason not to have them, most of the successors are second founding so would follow the parent closely. Especially considering that, following the Heresy, there was only one single Sanguinary Guardsman* left (Azkaellon), so all of the Chapters including the BA would have to rebuild after the Second Founding split them apart. *That's a term I've never used before, nor have I seen anyone else use it. I kind of like the sound of it. Great term :) I agree that the FTs would build and maintain Sanguinary guardsmen to the best of their ability. Of course they are experiencing heavier losses due to the large amout of brothers entering the death company, but that does not mean that the achievements of those brothers that do not fall are any less worthy of acknowledgement and induction into the Sanguinary Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2648880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Sanguinary Guardian? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2648882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Sanguinary Guardian? Sanguinian... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2648887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 After this great discussion and seeing that GW is showing the love to the FTs by featuring a FT Stormraven on its website, it is evidence enough for me that the FTs are officially out of the Rhino/razorback, Whirlwind era and ready to take to the battle field with all of the shiney/battle worn toys that the BA codex has to offer. Tremble in fear Heretics! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2652291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Tremble in fear Heretics! Mmm . . . 'k. In all seriousness, glad you found the answers you were looking for Grimm Blade; best of luck with your FT! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2652296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Double post. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2652297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Got a Link for that Grimm Blade? I hate attempting to find things on it :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2652298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Doesn't it seem odd that the FT could apparently maintain as many rhinos and razorbacks as they wanted which are as common as anything yet apparently haven't been able to collect any extra predators or land raiders in their whole history and keep them running? I realise it's is/was a plot point to create unique successor and fit with the dedicated maniacs, but it's always bugged me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220550-true-flesh-tearers/page/2/#findComment-2652302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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