yobiko Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hello :devil: First post here (I think), lurked for some time though. Anyway, I have some questions regarding DA that I haven't really been able to find answers to. Might be that my search-fu isn't peaking right now. I've collected DA/Space Marines for quite a time now though dont have anything that even resembles a playable army and have never actually played the game, though I intend to change that. So, here's what I'm wondering; I understand that DA don't have access to some of the stuff that other chapters have. Does this include the venerable dread? Picked one up last night and suddenly something in the back of my mind reminded me that this ancient chapter might not have these ancient beasts. Also, and this might be a matter of opinion rather than fact, but are the tactical marines really near unplayable? Overpriced I've heard. I guess that doesn't mean they cant be played with, but are they any good for a newbie? I don't expect to win everytime nor do I really care about winning every game either. I just want fun :P But constantly struggling without any real chance of winning might not be too fun all the time either. I know, I should have the codex but haven't been able to pick that one up yet. It would probably answer some of my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 DA do indeed have Venerable Dreads, and they're cheaper than C:SM to boot. Tacticals aren't of course unplayable, but they cost more and don't have the special rules and options that other chapters get. Dark Angels 10xTacticals, Flamer, Multi-Melta, Rhino - 215pts Special Rules: ATSKNF, Combat Squads Codex: Space Marines 10xTacticals, Combi-Melta, Flamer, Multi-Melta, Rhino - 215pts Special Rules: ATSKNF, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics So C:SM cost 10pts less, or get a combi-weapon free if you like. Crucially though C:SM get Combat Tactics which allow them to potentially avoid, and get out of assaults. If you're building a DA list, Deathwing as troops (unlocked via Belial) is probably the better option. They have better options, better rules and the price is more inline with other codicies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Bartali is spot on :P Just so further thought: yes, you can plan tactical marines (know as Greenwing), but they are usually more expensive in points for the same build in the Space Marines Codex. If you really want to play tactical marines, just paint them as Dark Angels and I'd suggest using the C: SM. After all, they are your models and you choose what codex to use, as long as you let your opponent know in advanced. You could also have our most common trait (stubborn as a rock) as willingly play with a sub-par codex :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobiko Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks :) Yeah, running them with the standard c:sm will probably do just fine when going for Greenwings. Shame though, DA's should be on the same level as other chapters. I hope that changes whenever the next codex sees the light of day! Bartali: Ah, nice. I seem to recall something about DA not having access to some dread but then it was some other variant. Was for a moment last night considering going for another chapter, but I know I'll just circle back to DA anyway. I've been there before at one point ;) I have some codices to pick up soon I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LardO'Blood Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 But wait! Don't forget the 5 man DA tactical squads with special weapons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So C:SM cost 10pts less, or get a combi-weapon free if you like. Crucially though C:SM get Combat Tactics which allow them to potentially avoid, and get out of assaults. But if running away from assaults sounds like a good idea to you, you're not really a Dark Angel, anyway. So the true Dark Angel is really only missing that one-shot combi-weapon. :( Dark Angel Tactical Squads are slightly inferior to Space Marine Tactical Squads, but it's really not that big of a difference. The biggest problem with DA Tac Squads is that they are Tac Squads, which are just kind of lackluster in this 5th ed environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 DA do indeed have Venerable Dreads, and they're cheaper than C:SM to boot. Bear in mind they are cheaper for now, and that's partly because they've got one less point of WS and BS compared to a Vanilla Venerable Dread. Not a big deal perhaps, but it does put you at a disadvantage when facing a 'codex' Venerable dread. The points difference is only 20 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LardO'Blood Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 DA do indeed have Venerable Dreads, and they're cheaper than C:SM to boot. Bear in mind they are cheaper for now, and that's partly because they've got one less point of WS and BS compared to a Vanilla Venerable Dread. Not a big deal perhaps, but it does put you at a disadvantage when facing a 'codex' Venerable dread. The points difference is only 20 points. Not only 20 points, our venerable dreadnoughts can have assault cannons, plasma cannons and auto cannons for free. Potentially a 30 point difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I don't think it has been pointed out that a Ven Dread is simply and upgrade for a regular Dread in our codex. So if you are still trying to find a separate entry, you're not going to find one. I agree with FB on tactical. Yes, regular marines are slightly cheaper, but only ever so. In friendly games, my opponents can sometimes be 5-10 points over (or I am compared to them), so I really don't take that miniscule difference very hard. Being stuck with only 5 or 10 marines is annoying, but so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 At the squad level the difference is not huge, but if you are taking 4+ tactical squads, the price really adds up. That said if you run tacticals with DA, 5 with a special weapon is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 At the squad level the difference is not huge, but if you are taking 4+ tactical squads, the price really adds up. That said if you run tacticals with DA, 5 with a special weapon is the way to go. I suppose 40+ points is significant, yes. The pro at 5 is you can still have the special weapons, but the con is they are that much less survivable than a 10 man. I'm not completely sold yet, but I suppose 5 in a RB is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I suck at 40K. I don't know how to play properly. I also play with Dark Angels. I haven't won yet, and I don't care. I love the DA and that is what it will be for me. I don't care if SM can have the same things as DA and get the cheaper. I don't care if SM have better toys. I am Dark Angel, and the DA codex I will use. But don't that deter you from using the SM codex if you want to. Or SW or BA or any other codex to represent your DA. If you can make a more fluffy army using another codex, go right ahead. But if you are doing it to get an "edge" in playing then you do deserve those looks you get when you play someone. Yes it will be tougher using the DA codex, but hey, that is how you learn. Put it this way. Every time you loose, you learn. You don't become a Space Marine over nite. It takes years of training. Just consider this training. Or put it this way. You do good with the SM codex, and then you switch to the DA codex, and then you loose. Why? Because you are trying to use SM tactics for DA tactics. So in the end, do what you will have the MOST FUN with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I suppose 40+ points is significant, yes. The pro at 5 is you can still have the special weapons, but the con is they are that much less survivable than a 10 man. I'm not completely sold yet, but I suppose 5 in a RB is nice. Though more expensive (180 points + special vs 165 points + special and heavy) , two 5 man squads are more survivable than one 10 man squad. As they cannot be focus fired quite so easily. Also, it is more likely they will die in one turn of the assault, which is better than getting stuck in for your turn and not being able to shoot the squad that just assaulted you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Even 40 points isn't that big of a deal. A 40 point advantage can be easily erased in one round of shooting or a bad reserves roll or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobiko Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 I certainly have something to think about when it comes to running a DA force. So it's not impossible with greenwing, just harder. Thats good to know. I like challenges. ;) Picked up the DA codex today. Think I have every DA codex now since the 2nd edition Angel of Darkness book was on the shelves. (Yup, bought it brand new in store. though I did collect BA at that point but then switched over to DA). Still dont have a single mini finished though.... And have never played the game so far. :blink: *grumbles* Can DA Chaplains take terminator armour? I noticed that there aren't anything in the chaplain bit about terminator armour, and nothing in belials section regarding command squad. HsojVvad: Nah, I wouldn't use c:sm to get an edge or something like that. As long as I have a fun time it's all good, even if I loose. My reason for maybe using c:sm sometimes would be to try out some of the other toys, but you certainly have some good points there. Probably better to learn to play with one codex than hoping about. By the way, the picture on the back of the codex feature a tactical seargent in the bottom with a bare head with a bionic side. Anyone know if that head's still available in some kit? Also, the company master between the dreads was some limited edition figure, right? would be cool to have that one but I guess it'll cost a bit now B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DucAvieux Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The head is from the special weapon sprue you get with a tactical squad I believe. the same sprue is also included with the dark angel veteran box. The company master was a limited edition included in the old Battleforce. You can get it of ebay if you've got 60 pounds to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobiko Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks! Ah yes, as I thought it would cost a small fortune hehe. It's cool, but I'm not ready to pay that much for it. And scratch my question regarding the chaplain. Interrogator-Chaplains can take terminator armour (and that answer was just half a page up from the regular chaplain *facepalms*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Even 40 points isn't that big of a deal. A 40 point advantage can be easily erased in one round of shooting or a bad reserves roll or two. While this is true, so is the opposite, so the gap can be widened by a good round of shooting for your opponents, or bad reserves for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 ...two 5 man squads are more survivable than one 10 man squad. As they cannot be focus fired quite so easily. Also, it is more likely they will die in one turn of the assault, which is better than getting stuck in for your turn and not being able to shoot the squad that just assaulted you. Heh, suppose that does make some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WimvH Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Except that I don't do reserves. I tuck everyone up in their Rhino's and Land Raider and then go for it. Reserves are too random for my likes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 So C:SM cost 10pts less, or get a combi-weapon free if you like. Crucially though C:SM get Combat Tactics which allow them to potentially avoid, and get out of assaults. But if running away from assaults sounds like a good idea to you, you're not really a Dark Angel, anyway. So the true Dark Angel is really only missing that one-shot combi-weapon. ;) That's where the Deathwing come in. Our tacticals on the other hand :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Neo Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks! Ah yes, as I thought it would cost a small fortune hehe. It's cool, but I'm not ready to pay that much for it. :) And scratch my question regarding the chaplain. Interrogator-Chaplains can take terminator armour (and that answer was just half a page up from the regular chaplain *facepalms*) don't be too ashamed. i asked the same question a while back while i was stupidly tired and not seeing things properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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