AngelOfDeathXIII Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So yeah.. One of my regular opponents is an Ork-player. He basically fields over a hundred Ork Boys in mobz of 30 all led by a Nob with powerclaw.. My main problem is that when I start shooting I claim like 10-15 of the Orks but when he charges me he still has 80 attacks of which 4 with powerclaw... My average Marines never last more then 2 turns in close combat... He is also very fond of including Mad Doks in his mobz (and often the use of Cybork bodies) so they have Feel No Pain and due to the size of their mobs Fearless... I was thinking about: 1. Throwing a 15-man strong Death Company against the Orks.. Supported by one or two DC Dreads... 2. Throwing several squads of Sanguinary Guards in his guts... 3. Fielding several Baal Predators... Any suggestions? Any strategies that worked for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You should play "How many orks can a DC dread with BTalons kill in one go". DC are probably a good idea too but are harder if you use an all comers list. They can fire their bolters then charge and against orks at least they'll be coming to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 1. Assault, don't get assaulted. 2. Flamers 3. Blood talons. 4. Vindicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin2008 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 How can he have mad doks in their, there are only in nob and flash gitz squads?? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Most of the things have already been said: Use flamers where you can, especially on assault squads. You can also include Whirlwinds to lay down some nice templates which ignore both cover and armour of those foul xenos. A tactical squad for support is also a nice idea. Deathcompany is definitely the way to go against the green tide. For example, a LRC with 15 DC and a Chaplain(Or Reclusiarch) will kick the living hell out of anything that's not above 50 models. Even the Powerclaw won't survive, so think about it. To maximise the damage, you can add bolters to some of the models, and pump out rapid fire shots before the charge. Add a DC dread with Talons and charge it into a supporting ork unit that might cause some trouble, and let him rip them apart. For extra fun, the Sanguinor is a real baddie in combination with DC and DC dread. Also, he can take out nobs or a warboss quite easily and adds + 1 attack to every friendly unit in 6" (Oh yes that's a whole lotta attacks from those DC!). Sanguinary Guard won't be that successful, I think. As orks "elite" units are nobs/meganobz, their potential is quite wasted if the majority of your opponent's force consists of boyz. In case he fields meganobz, go ahead and tear them into bits, but against boys with around 30 models, they are overwhelmed really quick. But, on the other hand, the Sanguinor lets them kick in with 5 attacks(if the Chapterbanner is chosen, which you should always do) so they can take out smaller or weakened units, but beware the powerclaw as their small number does not allow any mistakes. Hope this was helpful...in the end, I didn't add anything new. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 if his normal boys have a mad doc, then its the special hq one that has rage.... :( and you could also try whirlwinds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 It is indead the special one... Mad Dok ... something... This was all usefull.. I think I'll leave my Sanguinary Guard for other opponents and I'll focus on Assault Squads/Death Company with flamers... I also read Vindicator... I considered it but is it really that good against the Orks? Anyway..Time to go buy myself some more Death Company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Things to consider. With 30 man mobs he is unweildly. Things like vindicators, Whirlwinds and even 4 missile Dev squads can put out a surprising amount of pain. You get beaten on the charge but have you ever thought about charging him? 10 assault marines charging boys kills almost 10 models on the charge on average. (So long as you have Furious Charge) (10/1 3/1 1/2 2/3 5/6 = 300/36 Dead) Which means to win combat he needs to kill your whole squad. Orks are weaker strength and less attacks on the defensive its not a good place for them to be. Ideally you should be able to whittle the squad down ~25. Kill 10-15 And take 1-3 casualties in return (this is where FNP helps) and then his own Fearlessness will finish him off. Of course this changes with a 5+ Invul and FNP but the premise is the same just the application of force variers. I think a Sang Guard unit could work if you had a way of keeping his power claws out of combat. Terminators are pretty good against orks as well where 2+ FNP really shines to keep them alive. And their Invuls help vs. Power Klaws. A typhoon with a heavy flamer is really underestimated as Anti Infantry I think. It can move 12" flamer, and then Dual Frag template something for 90pts :3 Land Raiders also tend to be difficult for orks to deal with. So its something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Your best bet is using a 10 man 4 heavy bolter devastator squad. I run guard infantry swarm armies a lot and the local marine players actually buy these squads and keep them on standby ready to swap them in when I walk in the store. Another good tactic is to give your troops transports, but not mount them up. Form a gunline, then park your rhinos next to the terrain to create even tighter checkpoints. He won't be able to funnel his boys through fast enough. Then throw whirlwind-pies at them, and assault squads with flamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Typhoon + Assault Cannon speeders could be useful. But as stated DC Dreads with talons are the way forward against swarms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincaiN Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I regularly play against a friend that plays orks and I usually do well. I've only lost one game to him out of about six. I run two Baal Preds and a Vindi plus a Dread with BT and I've never had a problem with him overrunning me. I usually reduce his numbers so bad he doesn't have much left by the time he limps over to me. One other benefit from the Vindi is that it's high strength and low AP can instant kill his Warboss (will ignore FnP and any non ++ save), which I have done numerous times to his displeasure. And as stated above, Charge, don't be charged. I know it's not always easy but that should always be your goal. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Don't rely on dreads. He will have AT, and these will hit the dedicated AT vehicles first. CC arm dreads will be a high priority target for his (admittedly crappy) ork AT - but still - AV 12 is not resilient if its a prime target. Plus, nobs with powerclaws tend to kill dreadnaughts in CC pretty quick. You want to be trying a 10 man dev squad with 4 HBs and a whirlwind. both of these are cheap and resilient to ranged attack (though redundancy or hiding). 10 man devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters and a whirlwind is 315 points. its what I fear as a horde player, so its what you should use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Don't rely on dreads. He will have AT, and these will hit the dedicated AT vehicles first. CC arm dreads will be a high priority target for his (admittedly crappy) ork AT - but still - AV 12 is not resilient if its a prime target. Plus, nobs with powerclaws tend to kill dreadnaughts in CC pretty quick. You want to be trying a 10 man dev squad with 4 HBs and a whirlwind. both of these are cheap and resilient to ranged attack (though redundancy or hiding). 10 man devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters and a whirlwind is 315 points. its what I fear as a horde player, so its what you should use. TThose units don't fit well into most all-comers lists. so it really depends on if you are in an "all-comers" environment or if you can alter your list to fit the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The poster was asking for help reducing numbers of orks in the fastest, most points efficient way, while maintaining unit resilience. That was what I gave him. In an all-comers list missile launchers would be better of course, but I stand by the Whirlwind. They are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 ... but when he charges me ... thats your problem right there. Fix that and it should be easy for yah. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Your best bet is using a 10 man 4 heavy bolter devastator squad. I run guard infantry swarm armies a lot and the local marine players actually buy these squads and keep them on standby ready to swap them in when I walk in the store. Another good tactic is to give your troops transports, but not mount them up. Form a gunline, then park your rhinos next to the terrain to create even tighter checkpoints. He won't be able to funnel his boys through fast enough. Then throw whirlwind-pies at them, and assault squads with flamers. I Agree here. Im surprised no one has brought up the heavy bolter spam before. If you're looking to target his list, 3 dev squads, 6 man, each with heavy bolters are only 438 points. Thats 36 shots a turn. Add in 3 baals with HB sponsons and and you go up 405 points to 843. lib at 100, 2x AS with no jet pack and razorback gets you another 340. So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. those 60 HB shots is only killing ~10 orks a turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. those 60 HB shots is only killing ~10 orks a turn. erm, ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Blood Talons make baby Gork and Mork cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. those 60 HB shots is only killing ~10 orks a turn. erm, ok... Sorry I should quantify that by saying 10 of the cybork FNP orks he is talking about :P Heres the math if you like (Just Multiply the fractions :3) 60/1 (Shot) 2/3 (To hit) 2/3 (To wound) 2/3 (Failed Saves) 1/2 (Failed FNP) = 480/54 =8.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. those 60 HB shots is only killing ~10 orks a turn. erm, ok... Sorry I should quantify that by saying 10 of the cybork FNP orks he is talking about Heres the math if you like (Just Multiply the fractions :3) 60/1 (Shot) 2/3 (To hit) 2/3 (To wound) 2/3 (Failed Saves) 1/2 (Failed FNP) = 480/54 =8.8 The cybork fnp effects the entire board? I thought it was a bubble. Most bubbles cant fit many boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks! I think I'll go for lots of heavy bolters combined with Whirlwind(s) and Vindicator(s) with some Assault Marines armed with hand flamers to keep the rearguard of his army tied up... Now one more question... How to deal with a stompa I was thinking about the Whirlwind/Vindicator and maybe drop a some troops with meltaguns behind it.... Thank you again for all the advice. The greenskins will be in for a suprise next time! For Sanguinius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So in 1183 points you gets you 60 heavy bolter shots, and 12 assault cannons... Thats easily killing a squad a turn from a safe distance. Im not sure what points you're playing at, and I'm not saying this list in specific is the best, Im just showing that slews of heavy bolters are fairly cheap. those 60 HB shots is only killing ~10 orks a turn. erm, ok... Sorry I should quantify that by saying 10 of the cybork FNP orks he is talking about :) Heres the math if you like (Just Multiply the fractions :3) 60/1 (Shot) 2/3 (To hit) 2/3 (To wound) 2/3 (Failed Saves) 1/2 (Failed FNP) = 480/54 =8.8 The cybork fnp effects the entire board? I thought it was a bubble. Most bubbles cant fit many boys. By taking mad dok grotsnik anyone can buy cybork. And any unit he joins gets FNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Oh.. so its not like the entire army has FNP... so the above math is a little off. so you're taking away all the feel no pain as well as the 5+ on mobs its not bought for. The loss of feel no pain alone gets us to 17.6. If the entire army isnt cybork, add in the factor that some of the guns are twin linked, and all the TL-AS, and you're looking at the ball park of 30 a turn. You can run the numbers if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Blood Talons make baby Gork and Mork cry. Quoted for truth. I play a friend who is an ork (never figuerd out why so many "horde" marines dont make the switch, but anyhooo) and i tell ya 2 of these babies working on one squad WILL decimate it, add in at least 1 dev squad with eiter Plama or just plain ML and you got a solid base already. Just make sure you drop youre 10 dc in front of a medium squad, and your dreads in fron tof a large light infantry squad. And i personaly take Speeders against those horriblr nob squad things before finnshing them with termies or assault squads with priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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