Cactus Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 A quick couple of questions: How much of the book has Naaman, scout sergeant awesome class, and how well does it follow Storm of Vengeance? A quarter, maybe a bit more, and very closely. I'm planning to dig out 2nd ed rules and play the campaign soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2656394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 EPK - I should point out that the colour content is one or two pages in the centre of the book. In this case, it's a map of Kadillus and a picture of Belial. Can't say you didn't warn me, the map and picture are very underwhelming. The map in Rynn's World is definitely more interesting, they could have spiced this one up just a touch more. And I was hoping for a more realistic depiction of Belial. So far it's an ok read. I don't recall a backflip just yet and marines are already severely injured/dying very early in the book, that does not scream super human ninja warriors to me (which is a good thing)... but, I'm not very far in yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2658842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
by_any_other_names Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Look at the picture of belial !!! A dark angel with a pistol and a plasma pistol, With a sword picture to the side !!! Belial = CYPHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2659350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If you want to play Storm of Vengeance after reading this then check out the GW site - I believe they have an updated (new edition) pdf version of the campaign on the site... As for the book itself, I enjoyed it for what it was. No, I was not expecting a literary masterpiece but the Naaman section was particularly well done and the final part of the book with Belial's battle over-view was a decent change of pace from the usual style of dealing with combat in Black Library books. Decent enough read if you like the Dark Angels... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2659541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I finished it last night, and I have to say, I enjoyed it thoroughly. I'm going to touch on some details of the story, so SPOILERS ahead. Things it was nice to see: Famous Dark Angels such as Namaan and Belial, and even Azrael. While the story necessarily made the DA start off misreading the situation, this was handled pretty well, as they didn't seem to be idiots about it. Namaan was given the leeway to figure out what was going on, and once it was figured out, they handled it. Every thing in the codex was used, the way it is described, and nothing non-codex (or other marine codex) appeared. The Revenwing and Scouts scouted, working together, and in major combat performed harassing roles. The DW were used for surgical stikes. Devastators and predators set up firebases while tactical marines manuevered, and assault squads were well used too. The final offensive, when Belial had a decent balanced 2000pt tabletop force, actually read like a decent combined arms effort. There was some neat detail about the way the marine gadgets and armor work. Nestor's apothecary chapter was pretty cool, describing his tools, surgery, and the way the power armor worked with him. The descriptions of plasma cannons firing was very cool. The detail about Boreas using the firing controls in the thunderhawk was well handled. Some cool geek stuff there. The tie ins to Angels of Darkenss and to Storm of Vengeance were well handled, with plenty of nods and details from both planted in. It was great to see the members of Boreas's command squad (Hephaestus, Nestor and Damas) from AoD performing their battlefield roles, even old Boreas did well. While he does come off as very rigid, the reasoning behind it is decently explained. There's a nod to the secrecy and mistrust Gav Thorpe seems to place in his DA novels there to, with Azrael's Librarian sent there to observe Belial, but it's much more benign than intiially appears. Overall the Inner Circle DA are aware of the dangers of the past, but they act like quite competant marines, not hell bent on self-destruction. I didn't find super ninja Dark Angels, or lone wolves going rogue and saving the day. They acted as an army, within a military structure, and it was refreshing. Anyway, good read. I agree with you ODM. It was a good, refreshing read! I especially liked the connections with AoD and I feel so sad that Gav did not write the Heresy book for the Dark Angels.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2659556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I really liked this book, mainly because it feels 'realistic' as far as space marine ops go. So often we read about "last stand this" or "heroic charge that" we forget that the majority of space marine campaigns are not the stuff of legend. 99% of them are like this book. Objectives are met, commands are given, casualties are taken and everyone goes home with some more experience, and I feel that the Purging of Kadillus captured this perfectly. The Dark Angels in the book feel like a military unit, with different elements working on concert with each other. sure mistakes are made and people die, but nobody's perfect and the job gets done in the end. I truly enjoyed it. Plus, it was refreshingly light on fiery rhetoric, which also pleased me. Aside from perhaps being a little light on his descriptions, I think Gav Thorpe did a fantastic job portraying Astartes at war. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've not read the book yet, but my impression of Gav from reading others of his books is that he takes realism seriously, and tries his best to portray Space Marines and the 41st millennium as they would be if they really existed in this universe. That gives his books much more of a sci-fi feel, which I appreciate. Most other BL writers take their stuff far more in the direction of fantasy. McNeill is Public Enemy #1 in this regard. (Why do so many people like McNeill!!!??? Argh! A Thousand Sons was a travesty.) That said, Gav doesn't know how to write action, in my opinion. His scenes of warfare have always left me bored. I'm hoping Kadillus will improve in this regard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Reading it at the moment and I am thoroughly enjoying it. It does seem to steer clear of calling the Dark Angels idiots and gives a real sense of the unknown as the Dark Angels search and find information. I'll give a more considered view once I've finished it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm a bit past the halfway mark, and I am enjoying it tremendously. Storm of Vengeance is what got me into the Third Company in the first place! More of a review when I am finished with it. Great, sci-fi military fiction: Gav's reminded me why I love the Dark Angels in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I'm a bit past the halfway mark, and I am enjoying it tremendously. Storm of Vengeance is what got me into the Third Company in the first place! More of a review when I am finished with it. Great, sci-fi military fiction: Gav's reminded me why I love the Dark Angels in the first place. I'm about the same distance in. The more I read the more I really think Naaman should be the one pictured inside and/or on the cover. But I'm sure Belial will have his moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've not read the book yet, but my impression of Gav from reading others of his books is that he takes realism seriously, and tries his best to portray Space Marines and the 41st millennium as they would be if they really existed in this universe. That gives his books much more of a sci-fi feel, which I appreciate. Most other BL writers take their stuff far more in the direction of fantasy. McNeill is Public Enemy #1 in this regard. (Why do so many people like McNeill!!!??? Argh! A Thousand Sons was a travesty.) That said, Gav doesn't know how to write action, in my opinion. His scenes of warfare have always left me bored. I'm hoping Kadillus will improve in this regard. I'm looking forward to reading it, too, and I agree with your assessment of Thorpe's stlye. The lack of action never bothered me too much, though, as it was always intersting enough, storyline-wise. And who the hell loves McNeill? The real name of the main protagonist in every single one of his books I've read is Mary Sue or Super Mary Sue. I'm seriously considering not reading his HH series books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If you want to play Storm of Vengeance after reading this then check out the GW site - I believe they have an updated (new edition) pdf version of the campaign on the site... I'll check that out but after a friend and I started reminiscing about 2nd ed we had a list like this: sustained fire dice heavy flamer template overwatch vehicle datafaxes grenades that can kill things heavy flamer template splitting fire from vehicles etc I can't resist it! Also, we both have far larger armies than when we were teenagers so we can field forces we never got to use in 2nd ed before. Slightly on topic, I've followed The Purging of Kadillus with a re-read of Angels of Darkness and I also find that a lot of Gav's combat scenes leave me cold. After reading some of them closely I think its because he rarely describes the environment - shots are fired, people are injured, objectives are achieved but without the context of 'they were here doing that, the other guys were over there doing this etc' it's difficult to visualise the battle. I assume the intention to make combat chaotic and personal, without the perspective of the omniscient tabletop general but something's lacking. Which is strange because I never get that from his Warhammer novels, Malekith and Shadow King. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2662773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Gav does make the mistake of referencing Sammael as the Master of the Ravenwing, rather than properly referencing Gideon who was the Master of the Ravenwing at that time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2663274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Plus, in the story, Sgt Orpheus (i think thats how its spelt, i dont have the book on me right now) is a power fist wielding devastator sergeant, whereas in the order of battle at the back of the book he is depicted as being sergeant of a bike squadron. I know it states that field promotions and scratch units were formed over the course of the battle, but that seems like too much of a random departure to be intentional. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2663280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Just finished it a minute ago. Very much liked it. Not up there with the very best of BL, but definitely better than the average. Disagree with the criticism of the Boreas sections - the early bits are pretty straight bolter porn (:)), but the last bits with his character were some of the best description of a chaplain contemplating his duty to his brothers I've read from BL. Naaman was great and the section with a human narrative was good as well. We've seen instances of humans overwhelming a space marine novel recently, but it was used very well here - I felt quite inspired seeing how the example of the DAs inspired normal men to heroism. Also think its a bit harsh to say this showed Belial in a poor light. I think it showed why he's a superior officer - he's prepared to admit and learn from his mistakes and is his own harshest critic. The bit following him directing a battle was quite interesting and different from the normal "Charge!!!!" strategy we see SM officers display. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2665506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Storm of Vengance link Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2667139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm a Blood Angels player but I still bought the novel the moment it came out... (Mainly to get it signed by Gav).. I read it in two days.. I couldn't lay it away... I really liked how he described ordinary Guardsmen from the point of view of Space Marines. I liked most of the characters but I was kinda disappointed the Apothecary didn't get a bigger part to play. My favourite parts probably were the last stand of Naaman and the Imperial Guard devending Koth Ridge at the end. I don't want to give any spoilers so I'm not going to say much more.. Main point: I enjoyed it.. A lot... YAAAH for story from Ork perspective! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2667514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Storm of Vengance link They should have used a map like the one in the Storm of Vengeance campaign pack. Or something similar detail wise. I would have liked some points of interest noted, especially in the area that represents Kadillus Harbor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2667839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahotsu Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 but surely we are not so dainty as a Harlequin able to roll out of a cartwheel and deal death. If by dainty, you mean a Mac truck. :rolleyes: I agree, we're not circus performers, but if need be, we could be. Space Marines have the skills of a ninja, with the subltey of a dump truck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2668033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I am nearing the end of the book and though it looks like I'll be rewriting large sections of my Chronicles of Naaman fan-fic it is good to see the boys in green get a book that does NOT involve the Fallen. I guess the next DA Battle Series will be the Plain's World Incident since the story has not been retconned sufficiently for the older gamers. My one gripe is that I chose my Avatar name based on the Storm of Vengeance campaign and as said, Belial does not seem to make the best commander on the field. Especially once Ghrazkull is known to be commanding the orks and the reputation of the Warlord was known to the Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2668561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Just finished, great read (we can assume this thread is full of spoilers, so I see no need to block what I write, if you don't want any, don't read any further)... Naaman was a great character and inspires me to actually paint up a squad of Scouts with that Telion for him. Him along with the Devastator Sergeant being able to inspire Tauno was a great addition. I did find myself wondering what became of the bolt pistol? Do you suppose he kept it? Bringing the piece of Naamans armor was a nice touch. I liked to see that side of the Astartes. They stand a part as super humans yet they still know there roots and for who they secure the universe for. Tauno proved himself (or redeemed himself for that matter) and the marine gave him the deserved respect. Some parts were definitely questionable about Belial, but I think it's more of a case about him being his own worst critic rather than not being able to act. Once he was in the thick of it, he was fairly decisive and it's not crazy to think he might consult his other HQ marines on matters. The one part that did rub me wrong most is that he didn't simply see that dropping assault marines out of the Thunderhawk along with the Dreadnought to take the Indola mine was the best course of action. That shows a lack of knowing your military resources and their uses. Charon came up with it instead. I think it would have sat better with me had Belial suggested it and consulted Charon on his thoughts rather than the other way around. Underestimating the Orks was a mistake, sure, but they made it seem quite clear that in 10,000 years no ork ever had the power to teleport as in this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2670317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I actually took the old Veteran Sergeant Naaman mini that I had, along with a squad of Scouts, and painted him up for the campaign we're playing, I was so inspired. I'm hoping to field him soon, as he turned out very well. I think Naaman's was the best characterization of a Dark Angel as a defender of humanity that I've seen so far. Noble and fearless, the things that drew me to the Chapter in the first place. Ultimately, I think the book kept to its Storm of Vengeance roots very well. Of course, what I really liked about it, additionally, was no Fallen Hunting. I'm probably going to catch hell for mentioning it in this forum, but I'm really sick of that being the overriding theme of the Dark Angels. Defiance and honour against all odds, even in the face of annihilation: that's what's makes the DA for me. And I'll agree with EPK about Belial: he seemed a bit unsure of what exactly the his Company could bring to bear against a vaguely quantifiable enemy force with unknown disposition, composition and strength when presented with opportunities to exploit. 'I'm a bit concerned about the Indola Mine Complex, brother,' Belial mentioned to Charon through gritted teeth, unsure if opening up to the Grand Master's representative was such a good idea. 'No?' the Librarian replied, irridescent sparks crackling in his eyes. 'Not really, no.' Belial shook his head. 'I mean, I'd really like to remove it -- not just for personal satisfaction, you understand, but because we have Orks at our backs if we keep it there.' 'Go on.' 'It's just that it's going to take a lot of time, you know.' Charon thumbed his lower lip in thought. Sparks of warpfire danced around the connectors of the psychic hood that was embedded in the flesh and bone of his skull, indicating the depth of his consideration. At length, he suggested, 'Why not send in an Assault squad?' 'We can't,' Belial answered tersely. 'We don't have any more Assault squads.' 'Hmmm. Well, why not take a Tactical squad, give them chainswords, and drop them out of a Thunderhawk?' Belial clapped his massive, gauntleted hands together with a mighty clash. 'You know, I'd been musing over that very thing last night, while I was in a kind of fugue state, brother!' He opened up a communications channel to Techmarine Hephaestus in his Thunderhawk, who was circling above in an ammunition-conserving sortie. 'Hephaestus, give Brother-Sergeant Nebbuch and his squad chainswords and drop them onto the Indola Mine Complex!' 'Confirm, brother-captain. Dropping Brother-Sergeant Nebbuch and squad with chainswords into the Indola complex,' the Techmarine answered. 'Better send the Dreadnought, too,' Charon suggested. 'Drop the Dreadnought, too!' Belial said, his words exultant. Yes, this was going exactly according to plan. 'I never doubted you for a moment, brother,' the Librarian said, patting the Master of the Third Company of the Dark Angels Chapter on his pauldron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2670383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Of course, what I really liked about it, additionally, was no Fallen Hunting. I'm probably going to catch hell for mentioning it in this forum, but I'm really sick of that being the overriding theme of the Dark Angels. You won't catch hell from me. I completely agree. I enjoy the Fallen plot, but it's fixated on in DA stories more than it should be, in my opinion. Are ALL Blood Angel stories about the red thirst? Do ALL Ultramarine stories feature Ultramarines hampered by the strictures of the Codex Astartes? Are ALL Space Wolf stories about wrestling with the beast within? No, in each case, most stories are simply about the duties of the brothers of the respective chapters, with each chapter's idiosyncrasies providing flavor and depth to the story, not usually plot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2670398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Are ALL Blood Angel stories about the red thirst? Do ALL Ultramarine stories feature Ultramarines hampered by the strictures of the Codex Astartes? Are ALL Space Wolf stories about wrestling with the beast within? No, in each case, most stories are simply about the duties of the brothers of the respective chapters, with each chapter's idiosyncrasies providing flavor and depth to the story, not usually plot. Well put. I enjoy the flavor the whole Fallen thing brings to the DA, helping set them apart, but yes, I'd say it's quite a small part of what DA actually do on a regular basis. Firstly because only a select minority even know of the Fallen and secondly because that Fallen clues and appearances are so few and far between. Each Fallen is like another needle in a galaxy-sized haystack, meanwhile there is no shortages in other heretics, rebels and xenos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2670422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaeus Marius Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I have not read the book yet, but after readeing all your comments, I think I will check it out. I like the idea of Marines as an actual military unit, not just super human killing machines charging in and slaughtering everyone. I also hope it does paint the DA in a better light. We have gotten a somewhat bad rap in previous novels. I play Space Wolves as well, and while reading the Ragnar books, I was disappointed to see the Dark Angels portrayed the way they were. Especially the instance where Ragnar (barely out of the Blood Claws) fights a CAPTAIN to a standstill. No matter how bad*%$ Ragnar was, that was a little far fetched.It seems like the DA are mediocre at best, and that is just not right for the 1st Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221433-purging-of-kadillus/page/2/#findComment-2670511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.