Purging of Kadillus

[Chyper1]

So you're saying that you have a beef with the Dark Angels? :P Gav also kills off Boreas and Nestor in the subsequent Angels of Darkness novel... Naaman is the 17th scout sergeant to hold that name so there will be the next Naaman leading his scouts even after the events of Piscina.

 

Wait, he kills them as well?

 

EMPEROR'S HAIRY ARSE, GAV :huh: , STOP KILLING OUR DARK ANGEL HEROES!! WE HAVE FEW ENOUGH OF THEM AS IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[FerociousBeast]

Naaman isn't a Scout Sergeant name. It's just a Dark Angel name. Naaman mentions only that other Dark Angels before him had shared his name and that there would be others after him. He doesn't say anything to indicate that the name has anything to do with being a Scout or Scout Sergeant.

[HollywoodSAF]

It was a good and a Intresting book.

 

It gave alot of History and also a better Imige of how the DA relly are.

I relly enjoy reding that book.

[Arioch]

Im a little late in the discussion, but I finally finished the book yesterday. (Warning, spoilers)

 

Im not certain that I liked the entire book, but it was definetly worth its price, the action was solid and the story was pretty okay.

 

It was good action from the start, with Boreas beating orks down with a statue and it was especially his whole attitude that I enjoyed the most. His last stand at Barrak Gorge was great´it was awsome to see how he ordered the militia people around, acting as an inspiration for all to see, as well as a figure of dread for the cowards who wanted to run away.

 

The tale of Naamen was decent, but did not do much to me. I never seem to enjoy the image of marines, walking into the unknown wasteland...

But Naamen died well, and it was of course an important piece of the story.

 

I liked the way Nestor worked with his gear, even helping the normal militiatroops. It seemed very proffesionel and effective.

 

Charon have to be one of my favorite characters and it was very interesting to see how the chapter uses the librarians to "oversee" the other commanders of the chapter. Makes perfect sence to me. Charon did seem to be a little to dominant at times though, it really should be Belial that held all the strategies in his hand, not the librarian. He is an advisor, not the commander :)

 

The entire interaction between guardsmen and spacemarines was also interesting, and the DA did not seem to be so ruthless as they are normally viewed as.

 

There is one small thing that buggers me though. At one place, before Barak Gorge, Boreas thinks back to the last fallen he captured- which apparently is Astelan :huh: . He also describes how he could not get him to confess, how he stubbornly klinged to his lies about the fall and the primarch. Did Gav Thorpe just rewritte Angels of Darkness?! :blink:

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

The Astelan interrogation and the action in Angels of Darkness are two different time streams. Astelan was captured before Kadillus.

[Arioch]

Oh, rigth I get it now. For one moment I had hoped that we did not have to see Boreas shoot poor old Nestor in the back (Buuuuuuhh).

[puck]

Didn't like Boreas. The first action sequence where

he tells everybody in the basement to go down fighting even after they explain to him that "going down with the ship" wouldn't help accomplish the objective.

There's a line between stubborn and stupid and I think he crossed it early. After that I just couldn't get into his character. I loved Naaman and thought he more accurately represented DA combat doctrine. I liked the technical passages with Nestor describing exactly how he went about fixing people. Belial seemed a little generic to me, they repeatedly mention his deathwing affiliations but

I don't think a single sentence of dialog is spoken by a terminator. For something that makes us so unique, you'd think the author could spend a little more time on it.

Quite possibly my favorite part of the book was the Devastator sergeant's interaction with the Imperial Guard troops. Of all the 40k fiction I've read, I think that passage best explains the gulf between humanity and the space marines.

[Droma]

There were parts of the book I enjoyed and parts I didn't. Almost all of Boreas's parts read as bolter porn with almost no real fiber to them. You could have stuck any other space marine in his shoes and it would have felt the same I developed no connection with the character at all. The parts with Naamen were good reading, he was the only space marine I connected with other than the dev sgt. The parts with Nestor could have been cut as they didn't impact the story at all. I guess it was nice seeing how an apothecary works but I liked him in angels of darkness better, once again it was a case of not really developing any connection to characters. Belial I thought was very hit or miss. Belial in action read as bolter porn, Belial planning and his internal struggle with the job he was doing were solid. The section from the militiaman's perspective(trooper Tauno) I think was as strong or stronger than the Naamen sections.

 

I liked the book overall and agree it was worth the price, but I think that is mostly because I'm a DA fan. As a fan of literature in general I'd say this book is a pass unless you have spare cash. I would recommend the Hellsreach space marine battle novel over Purging of Kadillus any day.

[Race Bannon]

Like most (if not all) BL books, it's wasn't amazing.

 

But I really enjoyed this book from cover to cover. It's worth reading :)

[Alastor]

The Astelan interrogation and the action in Angels of Darkness are two different time streams. Astelan was captured before Kadillus.

 

I am glad someone else caught that too.

[Grafius]

Didn't like Boreas. The first action sequence where

he tells everybody in the basement to go down fighting even after they explain to him that "going down with the ship" wouldn't help accomplish the objective.

There's a line between stubborn and stupid and I think he crossed it early. After that I just couldn't get into his character. I loved Naaman and thought he more accurately represented DA combat doctrine. I liked the technical passages with Nestor describing exactly how he went about fixing people. Belial seemed a little generic to me, they repeatedly mention his deathwing affiliations but

I don't think a single sentence of dialog is spoken by a terminator. For something that makes us so unique, you'd think the author could spend a little more time on it.

Quite possibly my favorite part of the book was the Devastator sergeant's interaction with the Imperial Guard troops. Of all the 40k fiction I've read, I think that passage best explains the gulf between humanity and the space marines.

 

Couldn't agree more. Most people who have replied I think got sucked into the "cool a DA book finally" feeling. This book is average at best. There was nothing remotely DA about it and any Marine chapter could have been placed in and it would have worked. Boreas was a douche who was overly "stubborn" which to me is not a DA trait. I got the feeling that Naaman was always proving he wasn't a traitor when he was by far the most interesting in the book. The Deathwing were just there.

 

Conclusion - The overall writing was fairly average and is aimed at a more immature reader I think. If you are a DA fan read it but don't dwell on it, as it will add nothing to the fluff of the DA's for you. If there was a myriad of books on the DA then I would say OK just a story. However with the lack of literature from black library on them, this is a poor attempt.

[Pavement Artist]

Didn't like Boreas. The first action sequence where

he tells everybody in the basement to go down fighting even after they explain to him that "going down with the ship" wouldn't help accomplish the objective.

There's a line between stubborn and stupid and I think he crossed it early. After that I just couldn't get into his character. I loved Naaman and thought he more accurately represented DA combat doctrine. I liked the technical passages with Nestor describing exactly how he went about fixing people. Belial seemed a little generic to me, they repeatedly mention his deathwing affiliations but

I don't think a single sentence of dialog is spoken by a terminator. For something that makes us so unique, you'd think the author could spend a little more time on it.

Quite possibly my favorite part of the book was the Devastator sergeant's interaction with the Imperial Guard troops. Of all the 40k fiction I've read, I think that passage best explains the gulf between humanity and the space marines.

 

Couldn't agree more. Most people who have replied I think got sucked into the "cool a DA book finally" feeling. This book is average at best. There was nothing remotely DA about it and any Marine chapter could have been placed in and it would have worked. Boreas was a douche who was overly "stubborn" which to me is not a DA trait. I got the feeling that Naaman was always proving he wasn't a traitor when he was by far the most interesting in the book. The Deathwing were just there.

 

Conclusion - The overall writing was fairly average and is aimed at a more immature reader I think. If you are a DA fan read it but don't dwell on it, as it will add nothing to the fluff of the DA's for you. If there was a myriad of books on the DA then I would say OK just a story. However with the lack of literature from black library on them, this is a poor attempt.

 

This is their fourth Black library Novel. That's not exactly a drought compared with most chapters. Take the Horus Heresy novels as you will but the fact remains that they have had two books in that series dedicated to them when folks like the World Eaters and Blood Angels are still waiting on one. There's enough around to judge this book by it's own merits.

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

Didn't like Boreas. The first action sequence where

he tells everybody in the basement to go down fighting even after they explain to him that "going down with the ship" wouldn't help accomplish the objective.

There's a line between stubborn and stupid and I think he crossed it early. After that I just couldn't get into his character. I loved Naaman and thought he more accurately represented DA combat doctrine. I liked the technical passages with Nestor describing exactly how he went about fixing people. Belial seemed a little generic to me, they repeatedly mention his deathwing affiliations but

I don't think a single sentence of dialog is spoken by a terminator. For something that makes us so unique, you'd think the author could spend a little more time on it.

Quite possibly my favorite part of the book was the Devastator sergeant's interaction with the Imperial Guard troops. Of all the 40k fiction I've read, I think that passage best explains the gulf between humanity and the space marines.

 

Couldn't agree more. Most people who have replied I think got sucked into the "cool a DA book finally" feeling. This book is average at best. There was nothing remotely DA about it and any Marine chapter could have been placed in and it would have worked. Boreas was a douche who was overly "stubborn" which to me is not a DA trait. I got the feeling that Naaman was always proving he wasn't a traitor when he was by far the most interesting in the book. The Deathwing were just there.

 

Conclusion - The overall writing was fairly average and is aimed at a more immature reader I think. If you are a DA fan read it but don't dwell on it, as it will add nothing to the fluff of the DA's for you. If there was a myriad of books on the DA then I would say OK just a story. However with the lack of literature from black library on them, this is a poor attempt.

 

This is their fourth Black library Novel. That's not exactly a drought compared with most chapters. Take the Horus Heresy novels as you will but the fact remains that they have had two books in that series dedicated to them when folks like the World Eaters and Blood Angels are still waiting on one. There's enough around to judge this book by it's own merits.

 

The Blood Angels have several but IMHO (as Blood Angels player) they're crap --

[Pavement Artist]

Aye. Though we're tying with Dark angels in terms of the number of novels about is, ours have been limited to one writer where as the 4 DA books have been split between three different authors so it's easier somewhat, to judge the quality of the writing overall as theres been more than the one writer having a stab at it.

[Gillyfish]

Conclusion - The overall writing was fairly average and is aimed at a more immature reader I think.

 

I see where you're coming from, but I think it depends on what you compare it to. The Black Library have never pretended to produce anything more than enjoyable pulp fiction. If I was expecting something like a Kazuo Ishiguro or Kafka novel then I would have been disappointed. Even something by Frank Herbert (closer to the genre in question). But taken for what it is I would say this is an enjoyable, well paced read. I enjoyed it as it actually showed a different side to the DA than the hunt for the fallen. This depicted the Dark Angels as they deploy and fight for the majority of the time. Certainly there are areas where things might have been improved, but overall I would say this is pretty good when taken as a product of the market its intended for. :tu:

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

Indeed I didn't even buy the books of our Blood Angels because just by reading the backflap I got sick...

[Cairbre]

I liked the book generaly. The most interesting stories were that of Naaman and guardsman (Tauno I think). But more Deathwing action would be great. :D

[Bryan Blaire]

There was nothing remotely DA about it and any Marine chapter could have been placed in and it would have worked. Boreas was a douche who was overly "stubborn" which to me is not a DA trait. I got the feeling that Naaman was always proving he wasn't a traitor when he was by far the most interesting in the book. The Deathwing were just there.

 

Conclusion - The overall writing was fairly average and is aimed at a more immature reader I think. If you are a DA fan read it but don't dwell on it, as it will add nothing to the fluff of the DA's for you. If there was a myriad of books on the DA then I would say OK just a story. However with the lack of literature from black library on them, this is a poor attempt.

 

Is the only fluff for the Dark Angels written such that it deals with the Fallen? No, not completely. Look at the latest DA Codex, in the battles section, and you will find only one of the four (or five, if you count the Lion and Wolf story) has anything to do with the Dark Angels going in to capture a Fallen. The Dark Angels definitely have an agenda, but they are a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, and they do utilize the Codex Astartes. This means that, in general, when you are dealing with one of the battle companies (such as the 3rd) or reserve companies, they are going to conduct war-time operations in a manner very similar to "any Marine chapter". This is not a failing of the book, Games Workshop, or the Black Library authors. Where there hasn't been near enough done is in the realm of Strategy and Tactics that the Lion was supposed to be an almost intuitive master of. The Hunt for the Fallen is a big part of the Dark Angels and the Unforgiven, but it is not their sole focus, and everything written about them does not need to dwell on this fact.

[shabbadoo]

The book is somewhat inconsistent in regard to Boreas. In the Basilica defense he's a nimrod. The rest of book he is okay. Still, the rest of the book has to beat down that bad initial impression. Belial is portrayed as being involved in bigger things, and not really cognizant of the big picture. Then you've got Naaman having to pretty much shove stuff in the HQs' faces to get them to listen to him. Overall, I thought the politicking was pretty lame. I expect better things from Space Marines than 40K telenovela. So-so book.

[EPK]

The book is somewhat inconsistent in regard to Boreas. In the Basilica defense he's a nimrod. The rest of book he is okay. Still, the rest of the book has to beat down that bad initial impression.

 

I partially agree here, however I took it as an attempt at showing the zeal of a Chaplain (plus, I believe it was already written in Age of Darkness that the basilica was taken and retaken a lot - if that's what you mean). Take for instance a Chaplain's role in game - he is placed for that extra push in CC. In a real setting they are there to push their comrades to fighting more fiercely. He's stirring them up to charge into a melee with ferocious zeal.

 

You see this again when he jumps out of the back of the Thunderhawk onto an Ork Trukk. Though I found this sequence kind of action movie-esque myself (in a bad way), I took it as another attempt to show the ferocity of a Chaplain in combat.

 

This is what I thought was the point of these - of course they are open to interpretation whether they pull if off well or not.

[le_tiss]

Long time no Speak!!!!!

 

 

Hello Everybody - after 2 years time out with no warhammer / W40k I have put my toes back in the water ;-)

 

 

Now I like Gav, personally and the fact that he likes the DA but compared to other BL authors (Abnett, ADB) his books seem lightweight without any character development, a sense of increasing drama (not McNeill Drama (a poor mans David Gemmel)) and it felt disjointed and rushed!

 

 

For example - Abnett's last HH book made me 1. care about the characters 2. page turn 3. actually want to find out more about the SW 4. like the fact that he does not dare to go out of cannon fluff and changes things to make them miles more interesting!

 

 

The increased price for a slightly bigger print and 3 rubbish colour plates/pages? They could have used so much more from the Storm of Vengeance campaign.

 

 

On the plus side - Gav has to be congratulated for certain parts of the book - the combined arms stuff, the description of chaplain in parts, references to older fluff & AoD, the apothecary stuff is great. I Haven't finished it yet (at Barrack Gorge mine) so it may surprise me and get better but all in all it's more of a 6/10 for me so far (where I AoD was an 8/10 and Fall of Angels was a 4/10)

 

For the Lion

[interogatortech]

Bolter Porn? No wonder i love reading all this black library books :)

[EPK]

Long time no Speak!!!!!

 

 

Hello Everybody - after 2 years time out with no warhammer / W40k I have put my toes back in the water ;-)

 

 

Now I like Gav, personally and the fact that he likes the DA but compared to other BL authors (Abnett, ADB) his books seem lightweight without any character development, a sense of increasing drama (not McNeill Drama (a poor mans David Gemmel)) and it felt disjointed and rushed!

 

 

For example - Abnett's last HH book made me 1. care about the characters 2. page turn 3. actually want to find out more about the SW 4. like the fact that he does not dare to go out of cannon fluff and changes things to make them miles more interesting!

I think we have to remember to compare this to other Space Marine Battles novels (I have not read the any others just yet, so I can't do so). That is what the goal here is after all. The Horus Heresy books are in a different league in my opinion.

 

 

The increased price for a slightly bigger print and 3 rubbish colour plates/pages? They could have used so much more from the Storm of Vengeance campaign.

I agree, the map was totally lackluster as was the illustration of Belial. I would have rather seen something more real looking like the cover.

 

 

On the plus side - Gav has to be congratulated for certain parts of the book - the combined arms stuff, the description of chaplain in parts, references to older fluff & AoD, the apothecary stuff is great. I Haven't finished it yet (at Barrack Gorge mine) so it may surprise me and get better but all in all it's more of a 6/10 for me so far (where I AoD was an 8/10 and Fall of Angels was a 4/10)

Combined arms is the name of the game, this is the part of what I thought was the goal of these types of novels as I noted above. I feel even Age of Darkness was something different, with backstories and such. Though I could be wrong, it seems these battle novels are meant to get back to the straight up warfare that is 40K. Tactics, the cohesion between units and of course bolter porn to some extent as everyone loves a nice rapid fire into a bunch of ugly xenos.

 

Heresy novels focus more on the storyline and character building but are also taking place on a grander scale while specific military engagements take a backseat at times. For perspective, I'd say if Purging of Kadillus took place during the Heresy and was written into one of the novels it would be condensed and only be a small portion of said novel.

[Droma]

I think we have to remember to compare this to other Space Marine Battles novels (I have not read the any others just yet, so I can't do so). That is what the goal here is after all. The Horus Heresy books are in a different league in my opinion.

 

Of the four space marine battle novels I've read this is by far the worst of them. Helsreach and Battle of the Fang were head and shoulders above it. Fall of Damnos was better as well, not much better but at least i had some character development. We don't see the personalities of any of the DA characters change throughout the entire book. The only one with character development was the guardsman. The only thing gav seems to be able to wright is action and even then not very well. He is definitely not anywhere near the best of what BL has to offer.

 

You also shouldn't think of the HH books as being in a different league. The only thing really different about them is that general events have to remain consistent otherwise they are like any other book for the author. These are professional authors who make a living off their writing. No one is going out and intentionally making a bad book. After all if they don't sell they don't make money. ADB specifically brought this point up in one of his posts a while ago because everyone is making the same claims that authors are only putting on their game faces for the HH books and nothing else which just isn't true.

[Captain Semper]

Droma what you say is correct. However there is also an element of "hooked" audience here. I mean if BL produces a DA themed book for example I think I'd buy it and read even if the reviews were less than favorable. I think a lot of gamers would do the same... So yes generally speaking a good novel sells better than a not so great one but the bulk of *insert faction of choice here* fans will buy it and read it anyway. Even if they moan about it afterwards (justly or not). You see there is also the element of fluff. Whatever BL produces is part of the canon i.e. it shapes the factions involved permenantly.

 

That IS a point of concern actually. If the view of an author is very particular on a certain faction or character he can then define that faction/character way beyond the generally accepted image. That inevitably means that it can alienate certain gamers that had made their own mind on that faction/character based on the previously available info. Given the amount of authors out there and the fact that everybody can potentially write about anything it creates, in my view, a hazard on the background irrespective of the quality of the book as a standalone novel.

 

There I said it.

 

The canonical status of BL books can work wonders if they go your way in terms of perception of a particular faction but can also create confusion or even dissapointment for gamers that have made a choice of faction based on their view (that did not contradict, say, Codex fluff) but contradicts the vision of a particular author. On the other hand the author feels compelled to add something of his own in the faction he describes (it is a novel after all, creativity is required) so you have an accident waiting to happen.

 

Personally I was immensly dissapointed by the portayal of Belial. I mean this guy became Master of the Deathwing! He was seeking approval all the time from a not-so-senior Librarian because he was *afraid* of what Azrael might think of him. To me he was more anxious to second-guess Azrael through his appointed emissary rather than take affirmative action as a soon-to-be-Deathwing Master should do. Put the Librarian in his place. This is a Master of the 3rd domain. Report back what you like - I'll do what I beleive it's right! No time for soul searching when two Ork warlords are at the doorstep! Anyway..

 

That's my view. A new book comes out and I'm more worried of how the fluff will change than be able to enjoy a well written novel. To me BL novels are an extention to the hobby -not literature in the general sense.