WingsOfTheFalcon Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hi Guys, I know Counts-as is a bit of a sore point for BA players at the minute. I play an Iron Snakes army, which is built using C:SM. (See sig link) Now the one thing which has always bugged me about using C:SM is that it doesn't allow me to field many apothecaries. For those that haven't read the only official BL book about the Irons Snakes (Brothers of the Snaked by Dan Abnett) their chapter is ogranised so that each squad include an apothecary, which I believe I could proxy using Sang Priests, i.e I could get one per squad? I'm not interested in the new BA units like Stromravens and Sanguinary Guard, I would just like to make my army ruleswise fit the fluff of the Iron Snakes better. I think that this works as a thematic use of 'counts-as', but would be interested to hear the purist's views. Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 you can, but then how do you justify the furious charge and red thirst? neither of which can be advoided with a ba list. a thoght, i think theres a character in the imperial armour thing that gives all squads apoths...? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hmm, in our LGS if a player wants to use a "counts as" BA list and not take the Red thirst, then it would be fine by me. The only big issue I can see is the FC from the Priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 of couse you could just never charge, but tat wont always be an option... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I say do it, the odds of a red thirst are fairly low, and im sure youll come up with something for the FC issue. HAve fun and welcome aboard!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 brother, do whatever makes you happy ;) tbh it doesent sound unreasonable. the 4th edition vanilla dex had traits that you could use for the apocs but sadly that was taken away :( its a hobby and these are your models. if you want apothecaries and the vanilla doesent doesent allow you to use a fluffy list then go for one that does, imho :) if you dont want to use the red thirst dont. heck, the times that i DID use it i got 1 tops that raged and sometimes i just plain forget. (and since my assault marines are always near a priest anyway no harm was done :P) likewise if you want the FNP but not the FC you CAN just forget about it, even though your entitled to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hmm, in our LGS if a player wants to use a "counts as" BA list and not take the Red thirst, then it would be fine by me. The only big issue I can see is the FC from the Priest. Why shouldn't he use the Red thirst? Vanilla marines have chapter tactics, so if he don't use Red thirst he's playing an unbalanced list. Same with FC. I don't believe in taking another codex and play 'count as' without using the rules the codex was written with. Sure, he can avoid BA only units like Baal, stormraven and DC, but the rules that each unit comes with should be used. We don't have to be so defensive about anyone using our codex. If they have a good story, let them use it. If they don't, let them use it. The bandwagoneers will soon leave us for the GK codex anyway, and then it will be true BA and some good 'count as' left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 tbh i couldnt care less if hed use the blood angel codex to form a counts as army. specialy when he has a fluffy reason for it, all the more power to him. and if he were bandwagoning i couldnt care less either tbh... we all play this game to have fun no? why would i object to a fellow player having his share of it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Go for it. Your models; your money. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelofSorrow Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Red scorpions chapter master from IA 9 allows you to swap combat tactics for a free apothecary upgrade to the Sargent in all tactical squads Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Till Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Red scorpions chapter master from IA 9 allows you to swap combat tactics for a free apothecary upgrade to the Sargent in all tactical squads That wont fly in a tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 We don't have to be so defensive about anyone using our codex. If they have a good story, let them use it. If they don't, let them use it. The bandwagoneers will soon leave us for the GK codex anyway, and then it will be true BA and some good 'count as' left. This. Let people use the codex that fits their army. I don't care how its painted during the game. As long as I know what codex it is and what the units are, lets play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm with JamesI for several reasons. 1. Playing red Blood Angels all day may get boring. 2. Its his money. 3. I see no problem if its modeled in an understandable manner 4. I would want my special rules if I was using Codex: Space Marines. 5. More sales for Blood Angels = more love from GW. :rolleyes: Basically if he wants to use it then I see no reason why he shouldn't. I wouldn't stop a loyalist from using our codex and I wouldn't stop a chaos player from using our codex. So whether its Iron Snakes, World Eaters, Night Lords, Death Guard, or extremely pissed off Ultramarines; I say let them use our codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelofSorrow Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Red scorpions chapter master from IA 9 allows you to swap combat tactics for a free apothecary upgrade to the Sargent in all tactical squads That wont fly in a tournament. Well considering he didn't mention tournaments so I wasn't concerned. @ OP But that character would be your best option outside of tournament play Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Seconding the use of Red Scorpions. It's actually better at doing the stated purpose here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Yep might as well run the Red Scorpions. It is closer to the Fluff for what your looking for other wise I am against the Idea Not because of its our codex use your own!!!!11!*okay just a little* its I'm sick of playing a game against Blue angels and Green angels and Grey angels and the like I think my groups down to 2 Nilla marine lists a Smurf Player that needs to go die in a fire, And a Vulkan list. But other than that when people come up with "Fluff" reasons why they feel they deserve to use the BA dex without being of BA stock is just a laughable excuse of power gaming but that's just me and just my opinion of this situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Red Scorpions, use'em. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 But other than that when people come up with "Fluff" reasons why they feel they deserve to use the BA dex without being of BA stock is just a laughable excuse of power gaming but that's just me and just my opinion of this situation. I'm conflicted by this. On one hand I want to argue with your myopic view, but on the other I'm better off just putting you on ignore. Its stuff like this that turns the B&C from a fun, useful forum to a bitter tribal drivel-fest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Codex Space Marines is for the 90% of Space Marine Chapters that follow the Codex Astartes. That's what it says, written inside of it. Codex Blood Angels is for the Blood Angels and their successors. That's what it says, written inside of it. I will never understand how someone thinking that you should use a book for it's intended purpose, and not use a different book when there is already book that was made for you, is considered by some to be anti-fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well Really what is stopping the OP from making his squad leaders look like Apoth's? since they look like apoths they match his fluff and can be loaded up as per the Squad leaders wargear options instead he wishes to use something that is Vastly BAcentric and gives his army that completly detracts from their Fluff *I would assume since I havent Read the BL book his army is from* I'm conflicted by this. On one hand I want to argue with your myopic view, but on the other I'm better off just putting you on ignore. Its stuff like this that turns the B&C from a fun, useful forum to a bitter tribal drivel-fest. I really could not care less if you do not like my opinions but remember they are like :cusss everyone has one. Sure it is a little irrational to be against people using codex's that are not for their armies, Hell I have no problems if things are put in different context like a admech army using a codex something since the Admech don't have rules. Then we get people who want the New and Shiny. I do not really care now with the lovely "counts as" rule has sucked the Fluff away from my gaming now I just ask what codex am I fighting if their army is one of the Right choices as per codex I am over joyed But most the time I am left fighting Ultra wolves or Blood hands or the Dreded Sprue Grey legion of every army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hey guys, Thanks very much for all the input, like I said in the OP I realise this is a bit of a sore area for a lot of BA players. I'm not a tournament/power gamer in any sense so I'm not trying to wangle a competative advantage out of using the list. I think it could be construed to be power gaming if I was using all of the units, but my interest is only in the Priests and purely for fluff reasons. The Red Thirst issue is a big one, and might well be a deal breaker as the Iron Snakes don't have any bezerker squads. I guess the IA:9 Red Scorpions Chapter Tactics could be the answer, though I know that also some players are a bit shirty about FW lists too. At the minute I have modelled the Apoths in each squad but they have no in-game benefit or rules, so it might well be the case that I've already struck upon the simplest solution. I do actually already have a BA successor army from back in the WD list era, but I figured this use of the list is a bit different and so wanted to hear your thoughts on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If your friends don't let you use Forge World, then our Codex is definitely the way to go. Just like a 1st Company army has limited options, so too does an Apothecary-army need to come to us to see its vision fulfilled. I wish you could take Independent Character Apothecaries in the vanilla 'dex too, just with a different benefit than the Sanguinary Priests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Codex Space Marines is for the 90% of Space Marine Chapters that follow the Codex Astartes. That's what it says, written inside of it. Codex Blood Angels is for the Blood Angels and their successors. That's what it says, written inside of it. I will never understand how someone thinking that you should use a book for it's intended purpose, and not use a different book when there is already book that was made for you, is considered by some to be anti-fun. I'll never understand why someone with Plague in their name is allowed to post in the BA forum. You obviously were chaos orientated to start with. GET OUT. No. Seriously. (Find this insulting or rude? Well thats pretty much what you just did) There was no book created for him. Suggesting IA is a joke, its not even an official ruleset. Honestly there is so much self righteous fail in comments like this that its amazing these people can get out bed with the massive dissapointments they face each day with people having fun, and using their imagination. I mean I know that fun and imagination are totally against that hardcore space marine mantra, but seriously, listen to yourself once in a while. People like you are the ones who chase people out of gaming stores and suck the fun out of the hobby. GWS doesn't make a codex for every army out there, they can't even keep more than half of them up to date, sometimes I just wish they would release rulesets without a name or fluff and let people use WYSIWYG as the only rule as what represents what. So many problems solved in one fel swoop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Lets keep it civil guys lest the =I= get wind of this. Besides, we're not a bunch of infighting chaos players here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Lets keep it civil guys lest the =I= get wind of this. Besides, we're not a bunch of infighting chaos players here What he said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221756-iron-snakes-counts-as-ba/#findComment-2649929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.