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Played on a 4x4 board with ~25% terrain.

The lists:



Crusader (5/1, BP/CCW, melta, Pod)

Crusader (5/0, BP/CCW, melta, PF, Pod)

Crusader (5/0, BP/CCW, melta, PF, Pod)

Dreadnought (MM/HF, EA, Pod)

Dreadnought (MM/HF, EA, Pod)

Land Speeder Typhoon w/ Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder Typhoon w/ Heavy Bolter


Forgive me, I don't know Dark Eldar, but here is what he had:

2x Triple Lance Gunships (Ravagers)

4x Single Lance Transports (Raider)

Archon + Incubi_


Pair of Kabalite squads

3x Jet Bikes with the blade thing and S6 melta equivalent. (Reavers)


He won the role and deployed first. All I knew about the Dark Eldar is that they move fast, have lots of lances and some fun special rules of some sort with Pain Tokens. I made my first mistake, even though I knew I should deploy the Speeders in cover to do some sniping and inhibit his movement, I chose to go ahead and do a full drop since it was the first time I was playing a drop army. Which meant he had two full turns of fast movement to deploy around the board, covering the back armor of his gunships, deploying into cover and moving flat out on the second turn so that he got the 4+ save no matter what. Not skirmishing with my Speeders pretty much cost me the game.


Turn 2BT: One DN and the Crusader squad I'd attached the EC to dropped in (EC was with the wrong squad, one of the PF ones). Dropped them by the Ravagers to eliminate the biggest AT threat. Scatter was irrelevant. The DN melta took a weapon off one Ravager and its HF glanced to shake the crew. The Crusaders exploded the other Ravager with their melta (one Initiate dies in the explosion). Storm bolter fire from the pods was ineffective.


Turn 3DE: The Reavers do some kind of flyby slashing attacks on the Crusader squad (1 Initiate lost), several of the transports lance the DN, exploding it. One pod loses its Storm Bolter. Archon and Incubi deploy to assault the EC led Crusaders. The Archon kills the EC in a flurry of hits with some kind of instakill weapon, although I failed two invulnerable saves anyway. The Incubi finish off the last three Initiates.


Turn 3BT: The other two Crusaders and both Speeders deep strike in, leaving one DN in reserve. Scatter was a bit fun, but the range on the Heavy Bolters and Typhoons made it irrelevant for the Speeders (although one did peg the chosen spot), one Crusader scattered right across their target and some dangerous terrain so it ended up back where it started, the other Crusader scattered away from the Reavers towards the Archon's Raider. Storm Bolter fire was again irrelevant. The Speeders managed to explode the Wyches' Raider (all make saves and no pinning), the scattered Crusaders exploded the Archon's Raider (costing him an Incubi after all the saves) and the other Crusaders managed to shake the last Ravager again.


Turn 4DE: Various moving around, the Reavers' blade thing costs me a pair of Initiates and the Neophyte and that squad is finished off by the Archon and Incubi. One Speeder wrecked and the other shaken. The Wyches boil down the slope and assault the third Crusader Squad ending up with two surviving Initiates (whatever that insane bonus attack rule is, he only scored something like 1 in 3 hits) who took down a pair of Wyches.


Turn 4BT: The last DN drops in, scatters across the board, from its original target (Ravager) to another one (Raider with Kabalites). It misses with MM and doesn't glance with the HF. Storm Bolter fire ineffective. Last Speeder flat outs across the board. The Wyches kill the last of the Initiates in CC.


Turn 5DE: The last four lance weapons unload into the back of the DN, finally getting an explosion on the last hit. The Reavers shoot the last Speeder with their melta=type weapons and do nothing. Being down to a Speeder and four Pods with BS2 Storm Bolters, I called it at this point. Yeah I probably could have gotten a couple of models, but it was over.


Lessons Learned:

A: Especially against fast & mobile forces, the Typhoons need to start on the board to at least provide a distraction by maneuvering around flat out until the pods start falling. I'd already considered this tactic as one to follow most of the time, but was swayed by my desire to let them all drop the first time (maybe I shouldn't have reread Starship Troopers the week before last: "Everyone drops," must have been on my mind). IMO, this should be followed for almost all games with the pod army if you are using LS-Typhoons.


B: Other than the initial drop of two units, I should have dropped into more mutually supporting positions, my units were too isolated to support each other which allowed my opponent to swarm with his much faster units. This was complicated by A above because I didn't limit his mobility.


C: Pods with Storm Bolters suX0rz to the max. I don't think even the new effectiveness of the Land Speeder Typhoon helps that much. The only time a shot was taken at one was when a unit had nothing else to shoot at. I know the Deathwinds took a hit on their light armor killing capability but in both a swirling fight like this one or a straight up battle, besides the anti-infantry effectiveness, there is the exact same ability to shake or stun a vehicle. Okay, I lose the kill potential (except vs. AV10 vehicles, but it was only good to AV11 anyway, if they were open top), but denying the ability to shoot and/or move also has its uses. I'm going to play this list a few more times against different armies, but I'm getting the feeling that the Pods are pretty much just cover with only Storm Bolters. Yeah, I might get a lucky shot or three off, but they really aren't any threat. Just terrain.

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Nice report, clearly stated what happened.

The list though....the list isn't.


There are two theories for a Templar pod list:

1)MSU(MultipleSmallUnits). Your 3 Crusader squads are prime examples of MSU, minimal unit with a transport. The main problem of MSU in a pod list is the squads, as you saw, just don't survive. If only a couple or worse(as happened to you) only 1 squad of Crusaders comes in, and they are the only target for the enemy's shooting phase.

2)Fewer squads of more numbers. You run 3 squads of 5/5, 6/4, or 7/3 instead of 5-6 squads of only 5/0. Less drop pods, but each squad has added survivability because it has more bodies.


As you can see your squads are sized for MSU, but you don't have the number of pods to support the MSU theory. I myself run 2xDreds in my 1500 list, but in 1k they are 1/4th you army. Not to say they aren't worth bringing, but I would suggest:

Dropping the speeders to buff the number of bodies in each squad.

Drop the Dreds for another 2 squads w/ meltagun/fist upgrades for every squad.

Dropping the Dreds to increase the the number of bodies in each squad and grab another speeder.


Against a fast army like Eldar, you need to have a stable fire support for your pods. Replacing the two Dreds for a couple of Dakka preds w/Las-sponsons. They'll give you the much needed down range support before your pods hit ground. I highly suggest however to bump to 1.5k, as it allows much more options for the Templar Drop lists and doesn't take more than a couple of preds and another pod or two (Pending on whether you want to run as 1 or 2 style army). Also as a rule of thumb if you're playing Drop then try to pass first turn to them. Denying them 2 turns of shooting keeps you going full strength for that much longer.


Just a little bit of work and you shouldn't be worrying about another loss against any Eldar.

Keep with the Crusade Brother.

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In this case, the MSUs worked fine because even bigger units wouldn't have survived, they simply would have been cut down. The only ones that survived one round of close combat was when the DE player had no chance to get any fire on the squad (or missed, I forget which) and then blew his rolls to hit and wound badly. My impression was that his rolls were almost all average or below and were matched against some good rolling of my own. I'd lost the battle in deployment and we both knew it before I'd rolled the first reinforcement roll, but I decided to ride it out to see what would happen.


Actually I have several pages of variant 1k pod lists and this one was one of the "better" lists with seven deep strike units, they ranged from four to seven, with most being five or six. I will note that since the new FAQ, they have all tended to gain one unit as Deathwind points got converted over to LS-Typhoons. I will agree with you that 1k is possibly too fragile (at least more fragile than a 1k mech list) for a pod list, but it is what I have right now. If I'm missing anything, it is the Deathwinds since our special rules allowed them to fire on the turn we landed and they maintain a threat level that constricts movement around them. If the Deathwind change has made them too non-functional, then I'm going to swap over to a mech list, but I'm waiting to see how I want to spend my money.


I'm not worried about the Dark Eldar. It is all a learning experience, as I said to a few of the guys, I need to go ahead and lose a few games to work out some of the list's bugs and make it mine.

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  • 2 weeks later...



Played on 4'x6' field with ~25% terrain. No buildings on this one, just scattered trees and hills for cover, again a default to Annihilation, which I prefer for now as it is the scenario the list is weakest at.


The lists:


Castellan (Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, PW, Tank Hunter)

Terminator Retinue (1x SB/PW, 1x CML/SB/PF, 1x CML/SB/CF, 1x SB/PF, Tank Hunters)

Crusader (5/1, BP/CCW, 1x Bolter, Melta, Pod/SB)

Crusader (5/2, BP/CCW, 1x Bolter, Melta, Pod/SB)

2x Crusader (5/1, BP/CCW, 1x Bolter, Melta, BP/PF, Pod/SB)

2x DN (MM/HF, EA, Pod/SB)

2x LS-Typhoon (HB/Ty ML)


Demon Prince (Winds of Change, Warp Time, wings)

3x Chaos Terminators

3x 1K Son Tactical squad with Aspiring Sorcerer in Rhinos

Chaos DN

Predator (Autocannon w/ Lascannon sponsons)


Some commentary on my list. Since the local players seem to be stuck on 1850 and 2000 point lists, the first for tournaments and the second for fun, I was trying to upgrade based on the models I had on hand. Proxies were the EC, the AoBR Captain for the Castellan, the AoBR Heavy Flamer Marine as a Melta Marine and using yellow and orange painted strips on the base of the Terminators to show the CML and CF models. To make the fourth squad I used some AoBR bolter Marines and dropped one in each squad which gave me enough spare BP/CCW models. Then drop in Neophytes to round out the points. I'll point out that I paid a bit higher price than normal (340 vs 275) for the Terminators, mainly to eat up points, but also to provide myself with power weapons at I5 and I4 in case of assaults. Not the most cost effective move ever, but interesting.


NOTE: There was a mix of rolls in here, and I didn't keep quite as good a set of notes, so if I don't get into details of firing or don't mention a unit's shooting, it may be because we missed horribly and made the save or two required, or we hammered in a great volley, but all the saves got made. For the missile launchers, they did a lot of frag blast work and a bit of it scattered away, for example, one shooting phase I dropped six blasts on the same model in the same unit. Two hit, the rest scattered away. I just don't mention it.


I won the roll, figured that he would only have one turn of movement so I decided to reserve everything for the drop. Considering last week's issue over enemy mobility I figured that since I was going first, they would only have one turn of movement, nothing moved faster than 12" max and it was a full size board. My opponent surprised me by simply telling me he was putting everything in reserve. So, here is the great story of Turn 1: <crickets chirping while the roar of vehicle engines and scream of pods falling begins to sound>.


Turn 2 BT: All the Crusaders come up for deployment. I grab the opponent's center, shading a bit to my left (it is a bit more open on the left side towards my opponent). I drop the pods in pairs and they land with little scatter. The troops deploy into cover.


Turn2 1K: 2x Rhinos, Pred, Terminators come in. He comes in the left corner in a compact formation with one Rhino going almost to the left side in a 12" move and popped smoke, the second Rhino forming up in Rhino rush formation, the Predator setting up in the corner, the short Terminator squad coming up alongside the first Rhino in a run. No firing.


Turn 3 BT: DN, the Castellan/Terminators and 1 LS-Ty drop in. The DN drops in his face, the Terminators a bit back and to the center (they had to teleport in) and the Speeder in the left rear. The DN scattered but reset to the landing point with inertial guidance, the Terminators pegged and the Speeder ended up behind some impassable terrain. I forgot to move the Crusaders, but they were in a strong position. Fire was fairly inconclusive with misses and obscured vehicle saves all around. The DN did get to shoot the lead Rhino and used its Heavy Flamer to overlay the Terminators along the way. End results were the lead Rhino immobilized and one Terminator dead.


Turn 3 1K: Everything else (Prince, Chaos DN, Rhino) came in. The Rhino immobilized itself on some terrain, the Chaos DN walked on behind its cover and the Prince moved up on my DN. The still mobile Rhino from last turn bailed out and swept to my right to restore some mobility to that flank. The 1k Sons deployed from the Rhino immobilized on the first turn. My DN got exploded, putting a wound on the Prince and killing one 1K Marine. DN Pod also got exploded to no extra effect and fire on the Terminators killed the plain SB/PF Terminator and the SB/PW Sgt.


Turn 4 BT: The second DN and Speeder dropped in. The DN dropped in the deployment area and the Speeder on my far right to add fire support from range. Started moving my squads forward and shifted the Speeder that had dropped last turn for a clear shot into the ruck. Fire killed 6x 1k Sons Marines from the deployed squad (including some Storm Bolter fire from a pod, wheee) and blew the turret off the Predator. Sweeping into the assault, the Castellan kills the last three 1k Sons Marines, the Aspiring Sorcerer's attacks have no effect and he is killed by the rest of the squad. The first Crusader squad (with PF) slams into the two Chaos Terminators, losing the Neophyte and Bolter Initiate while killing one Terminator.


Turn 4 1K: The Prince sweeps out, using Winds of Change and CC to wipe out one Crusader squad coming up in support of the fight. The squad from the other disabled Rhino deploys and marches forward and the last mobile Rhino moves 12" to deploy its squad after my other two squads. The EC's squad dies to AP3 fire (the EC saves), the other squad is reduced to the melta Initiate and a Neophyte after missing cover saves. My DN dies to massed fire from the Chaos DN and the Predator's sponson lascannons. The last Chaos Terminator is brought down but takes a BP/CCW initiate down with him, leaving that squad with BP/PF, melta and BP/CCW models.


Turn 5 BT: Moved the remnant Crusader squad back to get in range of the Prince, shifted the first (left side) Speeder to take shots at the Prince, shifted the second (right) Speeder to hit the two 1k Son Marine squads. Moved the EC back and to the left to engage the Prince. Terminators stand and miss. The remnant Crusaders and Speeder finish off the Prince in shooting. The right Speeder kills two 1k Sons Marines with frags and heavy bolter fire. The EC misses but then charges the same 1k Sons squad, killing two and then dying to return attacks. The last Rhino got immobilized this turn, but I didn't note who did it, I'm thinking scatter from the one Speeder.


Turn 5 1K: Predator kills one Terminator with lascannon fire, the Chaos DN misses and charges the Terminators to no effect then dies to a PF. The full strength 1k Son squad moves up to the center of the field into assault range, then decides to have the fun off assaulting my melta Initiate and Neophyte in cover and saved vs all wounds then killed them. The last four of the other remaining squad start crossing a hill to engage the remnant squad that had killed the Prince.


Turn 6 BT: The right hand Speeder held and killed two more 1k Sons from the full strength squad. The left Speeder tried to nail the Predator and failed. The Terminators tried to nail the Predator and failed. The remnant Crusaders came back and shot the Rhino immobilized on turn 3, destroying its weapon and then assaulted it with the PF and managed to wreck it.


Turn 6 1k: Quiet. The 1k Sons squads moved into cover trying to get into position on the Speeders and the Predator shot the Terminators, killing the last one and the Castellan. Game ends.




Lessons Learned:

A. Yes, I'm a broken record on this one, but I think for my 1850 build for the next fight, it is going to be adding another DN, another Speeder and then putting Deathwind MLs on the seven pods (losing two Neophytes to fund it). That assault by the two 1k Sons squads would have been potentially savaged by the fire from at least three pods. Pods with Storm Bolters are just terrain and since we do have the special rule allowing pods to fire on the turn they drop, it is just too potentially useful.


B. I really shouldn't have charged with the Terminators, but I wanted to.... If I hadn't, they would have been back with some LOS blocking terrain and been able to savage stuff with their Cyclones and Storm Bolters.


C. I "wasted" too many shots at the Predator. Yes, it would have been nice to kill it and given the situation at the end of the game, if it had continued into infinity I'd have probably scored an Annihilation if I'd killed it because he no longer had the mobility to deal with my Speeders. It ended up being a waste because there are only so many turns in the game and with the layout of the board I could have effortlessly killed all the Rhinos with shots that went after the Predator for more KPs.


D. Don't forget to move your units early in the game. It would have cost me one of the squads the next turn if I had moved them on time, with them being caught in the open, but I'd have gotten the other PF squad and the EC's squad into cover and then CC by the next turn.


E. Again, know thy enemy. Part of this was me not remembering the 1k Sons' bolters are AP3. I've faced them before, but with Sisters and when I've come under fire, I've used an act of faith to make my 3+ AS into a 3++ IS so it slipped my mind.

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Did you win? You didn't really say.


A few comments:


1) MSU Drop Pods like taking the first turn. That way, when you drop in, you should normally have something to kill. The only real opponents that hurts you to do so, is the Dark Eldar. Even the Blood Angels can be blocked in by drop pods and isolated.


2) The DWLs might be beneficial, but I still think that their points are better used elsewhere. Sure the Drop Pods become essentially useless outside of providing movement blocking, terrain, and a scoring unit...but they are dirt cheap. Still, they aren't BAD with the AP "-", just diminished in strength. So if you want to put them in, you don't lose much. I've had great success with them in the past, there is no reason to believe they won't be useful now, even with no AP.


3) How much are you using board manipulation and unit isolation practices? I know you've been playing mainly Annihilation missions (good practice), but have you made use of those tactics in your game? If so, do you feel they've worked for you?

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Did you win? You didn't really say.


A few comments:


1) MSU Drop Pods like taking the first turn. That way, when you drop in, you should normally have something to kill. The only real opponents that hurts you to do so, is the Dark Eldar. Even the Blood Angels can be blocked in by drop pods and isolated.


2) The DWLs might be beneficial, but I still think that their points are better used elsewhere. Sure the Drop Pods become essentially useless outside of providing movement blocking, terrain, and a scoring unit...but they are dirt cheap. Still, they aren't BAD with the AP "-", just diminished in strength. So if you want to put them in, you don't lose much. I've had great success with them in the past, there is no reason to believe they won't be useful now, even with no AP.


3) How much are you using board manipulation and unit isolation practices? I know you've been playing mainly Annihilation missions (good practice), but have you made use of those tactics in your game? If so, do you feel they've worked for you?


A: Oops, lost by a couple of kill points, I paid for forgetting 1k Sons AP3 bolters and luck of the roll didn't help my armor shots. If I had focused some more shots on the vehicles, it might have turned out differently, but then I wouldn't have killed as many troops. Interestingly enough, his AT capability ended up fairly limited as I took most of it out early on, so he would have had troubles killing the pods unless his Aspiring Sorcerers had something to use on them.


B: I considered it a toss up, I got the first turn, but my opponent simply chose to reserve his entire force to not give me a shot at dropping in to melta stuff.


C: I want a test on the Deathwinds, this is an easy way to do it. I'm still fiddling with how much I want to go with a full deep strike setup, so I'm conserving my money at the moment which means I have a limited amount of figures to work with. I'm also thinking of converting one of the squads without a powerfist into a pure bolter armed squad, but I can see that coming down at the wrong time.


D: Not a bit in the first battle, DE have too much mobility, but I can fix that by deploying my Speeders on the board. The second game worked fairly well, but head knowledge sitting at home isn't the same as trained instincts at the table. I'm failing on that one, but then that is why I'm training on them by playing. The charge with the Castellan's Terminator squad probably wasn't the best idea in the world, but it worked out real well IMO until I was stupid enough not to seek cover behind his wrecked Rhino and instead tried to charge over the crater of his DN so I got to eat lascannon fire. Should have taken the cover and forced him to move out of the corner of the board to engage.

For the most part, I had the board controlled until I charged at the wrong time and then I still could consider it interdicted.


E: FYI, I'm putting together a couple of my posterboard pods and taking pictures and I'll try to get them posted in the next day or two. They still need the upper doors, but I'll add those at leisure. I think that will straighten out the slightly awry top fins enough to use a printed paper "fan" on the top.

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A) Ah, too bad. It sounded pretty close at the very least. If nothing else, you're gaining experience and that is the important part.


B ) True, but if you had gone second and he still reserved, he would have had to roll his reserves first. If he got some of his forces from reserves and you did as well, that gives you a perfect opportunity to strike out at his partial forces. Plus, when he's coming from reserves, he's got nothing to shoot at until turn three. :)


C) That is what playtesting is for. :) After I did my own, I decided that I'm giving up the Deathwinds in exchange for my command squads. But they might still find use for you.


D) Good. I figured you'd not get to use it much in non-objective based missions, but its nice to practice as its an essential part of what makes BT Drop Pod armies good. So when you decide to switch it up to an objective game, I'd be very interested to see how you fared using these tactics.


E) Most excellent. I've wanted to see closer pictures of these for a while now. Do they have functioning doors as well? Or do they just stay up?

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A) Yep, it's the hands on training. I think I shocked the guys there (they are a bit younger than me) the first time I was at the shop when I said I needed to go ahead and lose a few games to get rolling. I'm getting to have some fun with different list choices (I don't consider the 1500 or the 1850 I'm planning as "top of the line" lists) while I'm doing the learning curve thing.


^_^ Ah, instead of doing the choice thing, we've simply been setting up the terrain evenly and then going with the high roll simply being the first to deploy and move instead of choosing. Cuts a step out for now. I see what you are saying, but I'm working on making some of the fundamentals more instinctive for me.


C) I'm torn on them. I like the command squads in bigger games, but the Deathwinds should potentially divert fire from the squads (which may not be a "good thing" in KP games...) as well as causing casualties. After all, they don't need to kill much to make their points back. Remember also that right now I'm laboring under a model shortage for infantry. Long story, not important, but hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll have some pictures of some put together stuff I'm looking at making. I think I've got enough bits from the SM Battleforce and two BT Chapter Upgrade boxes to make plenty of Initiates, except for legs.


D) I think board control is the thing most people miss when they ask why you'd want to run such a silly army. IMO this is a harder army to run than a mechanized one, although I think more rewarding if you can do it.


E) They are up, plus some Rhino bodies I did a few months ago. They just stand there for now. I figured how to make them with floppy doors, but it was a lot more work (no more autofire hot glue inside) and they would simply be empty shells. If I wanted to have flopped doors for cover purposes (and I think being slimy by using the 2" out from the end of the ramps for deployment as well as cover saves by hiding "behind" the ramps), I think I'd build them the same (or with removable tops) and build some door ramps to place with them.

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D) I think board control is the thing most people miss when they ask why you'd want to run such a silly army. IMO this is a harder army to run than a mechanized one, although I think more rewarding if you can do it.


Exactly. It takes skill to use DP lists properly. And once you get there, you've got yourself a very tough list to beat.

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those Pods look great. im definitely gonna steal that idea/execution. plus they are easily modded. just to clarify. you just traced the parts from a sprue then cut and glued?


Yep. Took some care on the tracing and there is a bit of...jiggering on the lines, especially the door.


Lay it flat on the outside holding the bottom, trace the bottom, left and right sides, including the hinge body but not the rods. Mark the bend for the upper door on each side. Draw between marks to make top of the lower door.


Mine are functional, but if you want the most realistic, take as much care as you can for precision measurements and cuts.

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You need no specific reference beyond the LOS rules. Drop Pod doors, once opened up and models placed between them, block LOS partially...hence giving the 4+ save. The same with any other vehicle, infantry unit, monstrous creature, or whatever else. Just because its not part of the hull (not the same as a simple antenna or banner), it doesn't mean its not part of the vehicle.


If you instead placed your models on TOP of the open doors, that would be a different story, as you aren't blocking LOS at that point.

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  • 2 weeks later...

2000pts vs 1K Sons (Again)



Castellan (Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, PW, Tank Hunter) plus

Terminator HQ squad (SB/PW, CML/SB/PF, CML/SB/CF, SB/PF) w/ Tank Hunter (340)

3x Dreadnought MM/HF, Drop Pod (1x Venerable w/ Tank Hunter) (510)

2x Crusader (5/0, melta, Drop Pod) (240)

2x Crusader (5/0, melta, BP/PF, Drop Pod) (270)

3x Land Speeder Typhoon w/ Heavy Bolter (210)


Wait, that is only 1710 points? Yes, because now it comes to adding Deathwinds or maybe a couple of LS-Typhoon or perhaps a new Crusader squad with some stray Neophytes rounding out the list. Not sure.


I was hoping for a different opponent, but after last week, I took what I could get. I was there with an 1850 list where I added in the 5th Crusader squad and some stray Neophytes, so to get to 2000 I added Deathwinds to my eight pods and pulled one of the Neophytes.


Since I forgot my notebook, I didn't get a good play by play on this, but I do have some impressions:

1) I've made up tokens for Weapon Destroyed/Wrecked for the pods and will be making some crater circles for exploding pods. This was because as I hammered down in a mass, to make it easier to move and deal with stuff I pulled the pods, which allowed a lot better movement for my opponent.


2) Beat my head in enough of this one, worked okay the last time, but the Speeders must start on the board, even if all they are doing is hiding, but hopefully to do the sniping. Waiting until the pods drop to start bursting transports is a no-go.


3) I'm dropping too aggressively, I need to back off and work on that, dropping back out of assault range. I need to remember that firepower works real well. The urge to keep a castled opponent penned in must be overcome, if they don't maneuver, then the incoming units don't have a target to strike. The objective is to get him strung out while bleeding him.


4) The Deathwinds were murderous and well worth the points. Hits on Obliterators, Terminators and Marines fell to them, not in great numbers, but more than enough to justify the 160 points I spent. However, the great effectiveness depended on aggressive dropping, so the bonus is conflict with #3 above.


5) I'm really underwhelmed by the Dreadnoughts. They are one shot wonders, which means on average, for three droping, I'll get 2 hits, which will probably penetrate in melta range vs. transports. Pretty much it is an 11/36 chance of wrecking/exploding a transport per shot (in melta range, little better than 1/6 outside). Then everything they need to throw at the Dreads fires at them until they are eliminated. I can try backing off with the drop and hiding behind the pod which may work out, especially if I drop less aggressively. Which leads me to only having a Ven DN with TLLC/HF/Tank Hunter (or an assault cannon which gives about the same chance to kill all the way out to 24") and a couple of Term Squads. I need to fiddle a bit more.


6) Part of the benefit of the Castellan's squad is having two power weapons available for first striking, but I think the idea of a pair of Term squads will work better.


Oh, I got my butt kicked (KP mission again by choice), but I will admit I had a heck of a lot of fun. Lots of brutal close range firefights with plenty of assaulty action. Hysterical RZ rolls where I failed three of them and fell back out of range of being in assault range but still managed to be far enough away to regroup to shoot again. The Emperor's Champion first got three personal kills on 1k Son's Marines (could not reach the Aspiring Sorc), survived a charge from a Demon Prince (1 wound taken) then turned and lashed out scoring three wounds against the Demon Prince before dying to the combined attacks of the DP, AS and the last couple of 1k Sons Marines. I just had too many KP available, so even though the dead models on the side were nice to look at, there were too many large units on his side.

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2000pts vs Khorne


The Khorne army consisted of:


Plain Autocannon Predator (no sponsons)

2x Vindicators

6x Berserker squads of eight CSMs with a Power Fist in each, Fearless & Furious Assault.


All the vehicles were demon possessed I think.


Venerable Dreadnought (TLLC/HF/DCCW, EA, Tank Hunter) in Drop Pod with Deathwind Missile Launcher.*

2x Terminator (2xCyclone ML/Storm Bolter/Power Fist, 2xSB/PF, 1x SB/CF, Tank Hunter)

3x Crusader (5/1, Melta) In Pod w/ SB, one Squad has Bolters, two havet BP/CCW

2x Crusader (5/1, Melta, PF) In Pod w/ SB, one Squad has Bolters, the other BP/CCW

3x Land Speeder Typhoon Squadrons of 2x LS-Ty (Heavy Bolter/Typhoon ML)

* Deathwind in the Dreadnought Pod is just because I had 20 points left over and didn't have any more models left to easily work in.


This was different, I had rebuilt my list from last time, retaining the full Deep Strike capability while losing Pods (and KP!). The biggest reason for the change, even from the list on the front page..... Dreadnoughts suX0rz. I mean really, really suX0rz. Did I say they suX0rz yet? They pop in, get a shot to blow some nifty vehicle and die horribly. There is only a 1/3 chance of killing even a Rhino in melta range. From the rear! They are the point threats in a list with that nice melta and they just get shot until they fall down in the next enemy turn.


This one worked a bit better, but as we will see, too many other threats were offered and the 48" range allowed terrain screening to assist in reducing the shots at him, so that the muchly honored Venerable Knight managed to hold on and do a bit of damage.


I lost the roll again, so I got the privilege of going first. So, the deployment. I decided to put both Terminators, all the Speeders and the Venerable one on the table (his Pod was dropped empty).


Short result. After a devastating Alpha Strike that cost him 4 Rhinos, the Predator and a few Marines it became a ranged shooting war with three more turns of fragging, boltering, a little close combat and just a touch of melta ended up in a wipe.


Details with pictures can be found here.


Lessons Learned:

1) Not dropping in their face piecemeal so they have easy pieces to make a meal on works well.

2) Range and Torrent of Fire with missiles rule.

3) I got my arse kicked, but it really was a whole lot more fun to come down in a firestorm of Deathwinds and close quarters firefight. You know, if GW happens to include my two big wishes in the new codex, I'm going to be a happy camper. Assault out of pods and RZ into close combat. Be still my heart!

4) I'd rather pay for 2x Tank Hunting Cyclone Terminator Squads than 3x MM/HF, EA Dreadnoughts. More survivable and a lot more firepower.

5) I need more Speeders! And I hate putting those things together. For trivia, I got a deal on a cheap Speeder kit and it ended up being an old(?) one with the side panels attached to the top. If that thing is easier to assemble, I'm going to be seriously irked at GW.

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THX for your battle reports and after thoughts! I will build a BT drop pod army too, most of the models are done, only the pods need paint.

My list will make use of the double cyclonators which start on the table and demech my opponent. Then my drop pods with troops inside will land on objectives, guarded by the marshall with terminator command squad.

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Looks like you're getting better. Which is good. Losses DO come in handy, and it seems as though you're learning from past mistakes. :o


I will admit, I spent the other night trying to edit my MSU list to fit in CML terminators. In the end, I felt it changed the style of the list too much and there wasn't enough available in my list to provide legitimate distractions/movement blocking to stall an advance. The list simply would play too much differently for my "Defensive" style to work. :(

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Looks like you're getting better. Which is good. Losses DO come in handy, and it seems as though you're learning from past mistakes. ;)


I will admit, I spent the other night trying to edit my MSU list to fit in CML terminators. In the end, I felt it changed the style of the list too much and there wasn't enough available in my list to provide legitimate distractions/movement blocking to stall an advance. The list simply would play too much differently for my "Defensive" style to work. ;)


I also had to get the fun of Death From Above fluff out of my system. I knew it wouldn't work, but I learned some things dropping in piecemeal to be made a meal out of in pieces. It is hard for people to learn that playing "to lose" can be useful when learning a new combat system.


IMO, the problem with MM/HF DNs is that they are the only big fat target in the list. Yes, they are half the price of a CML Terminator squad, but I can figure on a couple or three ST8 hits with the Terminators while a pair of DNs will get me one hit.


I'm hoping to get a shot at an IG or Eldar player this Saturday to see how it goes, although I'd take a rematch with one of the Dark Eldar. It will be nice to have 3+ wound rolls instead of 4+ wound rolls... Moving away from all the pods to units with integrated deep strike capability is helping on the KP issue as well as using the pods as additional terrain for screening purposes. I should be able to adapt to whatever I face now, shooting more assaulty armies and assaulting more shooty armies.


The current setup (either with the Ven DN sporting a TH-TLLC or a squad of Assault Marines) allows me to protect the Troop squads, force the enemy to deploy and open up slots for some suicide melta strikes where I cannot be assaulted the turn after the drop.

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This one is quick. Got to play 'Nids. Deepstriking & Outflanking 'Nids. Oh, that was fun, first mistake, and I knew better, was setting up and hanging around the flanks. <kicks self>


It wasn't toooo bad. I just lost 1.5 Speeder Squadrons, one Terminator and one Crusader squad in short order (the last two to the Doom, talk about no luck on the saving throws) with the other Terminator squad tied up. Still managed to fight my way almost back. The EC and Assault Terminators managed to take down a pair of Zoanthropes, a pack of Genestealers and a big chunk out of some little bounding little melee bugs that got finished off by some Crusaders.


Long story short, I should have stayed centered. I still want to spread out too much, real world Army habits I think where you want to disperse within firepower range. Not a bad idea, but I need some overwatch type rules to make it work here, so I have to lose that habit.

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