blood gorgons?

[Darkchild130]

Aye, I hear you brother. Sometimes you have to take a step back and realise its all about little plastic men!

 

Darkchild

[Midgard]

Reading it now. So far, so good. I might post a full-on review once I am finished with the book.

[Midgard]

"Blood Gorgons" by Henry Zou

Full review

 

Having seen some rather critical reviews of Henry Zou's previous work on Amazon.Com, I was somewhat hesitant to approach "Blood Gorgons" despite the subject matter - Chaos Space Marines - being of no small interest to me. The critics have described Mr. Zou's novels as essentially poor man's Dan Abnett, which is not the most favorable description, and I have approached Zou's latest with expectations set fairly low. To my surprise, "Blood Gorgons" proved to be a very enjoyable romp through the 40K universe at the side of the titular Chaos Space Marines, and while it is not the best 40K novel I've read, but it is in the upper echelon of power armor fiction set in the "current" universe.

 

The novel showcases what Chaos does best - which is

fight Chaos

. The Blood Gorgons themselves are given an interesting culture with what seems to be almost Sumerian overtones, while their actions are almost always in character. They are not nice guys, and they make no excuses for it, which makes them seem more realistic (as much as anything set in a deliberately over-the-top fictional universe could be considered realistic) and believable. And while it is curious to see a Chaos warband that still recruits new Marines from human stock, and that functions in a very organized manner almost like a loyalist Chapter, there is no mistaking the fact that they are fully beholden to Chaos, and have no questioning of their existence, allegiance, or place in the universe.

 

Zou's writing is credible and moves things along efficiently, not necessarily with many frills but it gets the job done and does not get in the way of a story. There were a few rough spots - the rapid shifts in perspective characters and the introduction of viewpoint characters who are killed off a page or two later was somewhat jarring; while

Opsarus

was characterized reasonably well, with some interesting insights into the philosophies of

Nurgle

, the other main antagonist was not as fleshed out as he could have been, despite being given numerous "viewpoint" segments; while Zou spent much time emphasizing how the protagonist was different from a human in his thought processes, Barsabbas was given a "magnificent bastard" treatment instead of being made into a believable character. In fact, Barsabbas had somewhat of a Marty Stu feel to him, as he rarely if ever makes mistakes, and manages to manipulate or deceive everyone he comes across in order to meet his objectives.

 

That said, the story was well told, with very few plot holes or inconsistencies. The atmosphere of the tale was conveyed very well, giving Blood Gorgons a distinct feel as opposed to being a Generic Chaos Renegade Chapter #536. Similarly, the threat they had faced was credible, and the environments described - both the planet of Hauts Bassiq and the Blood Gorgons' flagship, the Cauldron Born - were given sufficiently unique feel that played well into the story. The pace was good, the action plentiful, and I had a hard time putting the book down, which is all I ask from a Warhammer 40,000 novel. The few rough spots were not much of a detriment to my enjoyment of the book, and definitely made me wish Henry Zou would write more about the Blood Gorgons. Consider me interested in his next book.

 

Writing: 7/10 (effective if not extremely spectacular, gets the job done)

Characters: 7/10 (somewhat lacking in personalities, presence of a Marty Stu, but not to the point of distracting from the story)

Plot: 8/10 (effective in getting the story moving, but far from unique, and relying more on action than on twists)

Atmosphere: 9/10 (the Blood Gorgons got a very distinct feel to them, and Zou employs it to great effect)

Value: 9/10 (very enjoyable read, well worth my money, good addition to the universe)

 

Overall verdict: 8/10 (very good)

[Noctus Cornix]

Picked this book up a couple days ago. I read the first chapter and I haven't touched the book since....

[chaplain belisarius]

is it that bad?

[Brother Nihm]

I don't think so, I'm almost through it and I've enjoyed it so far.

[chaplain belisarius]

its worth a read then? :)

[Dan The Deamon]

The first quarter of the book was challenging for me, after that things started to move along. I'm not a huge fan of his style but I did like the way he created the Blood Gorgons. The book, in my eyes, was pretty much something to "get through" to learn more about them. I don't like being a harsh critic, but i felt most of what i was reading was redundant word count. If the book was shorter and some of the fat cut out i think it may have been great.

[Darkchild130]

I loved it, even if the main character was Mary Sue.

 

Darkchild

[A D-B]

The first quarter of the book was challenging for me, after that things started to move along. I'm not a huge fan of his style but I did like the way he created the Blood Gorgons. The book, in my eyes, was pretty much something to "get through" to learn more about them. I don't like being a harsh critic, but i felt most of what i was reading was redundant word count.

 

I think Zou will always divide people, for various reasons. My experience with his work largely agrees with most of the reviews he gets, and so, for personal and professional reasons, his work really isn't for me.

 

I think this novel is one of the ones that highlights something very prevalent in 40K novels. Some people read them as science-fiction novels, expecting decent writing and a good story; some people read them as deliverers of information, almost like a prose version of a codex, prizing the lore and easter eggs that haven't been seen before, and confess that they have no real interest in the quality of the writing; and some people (most, I suspect) run the spectrum between, leaning closer to the first half.

 

With a lot of detail on a previously unseen Chaos Marine Chapter, you're looking at a lot of pleased readers, no matter how it's written, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

[A D-B]

If Blood Gorgons was written from a Death Guard point of view the Blood Gorgons would appear as weak and generally pathetic, but it isnt so they arent.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. This is something that comes up as a general 40K fiction theme a fair amount, and it's one that I feel pretty strongly about. If a story presents the factions like that, it's doing the enemy side an injustice. The characters in the story can think whatever they like, and they can interpret the enemy's culture, traditions and actions as weak and pathetic. Absolutely.

 

But the writing itself shouldn't portray the enemy as weak and pathetic, unless they actually are weak and pathetic. There's a difference between objective, descriptive prose and seeing through the biased eyes of an engaging character.

 

You shouldn't make an equal enemy look weaker or stupider just to show the characters' faction winning. That's not writing something from from another point of view; that's just bad writing.

[AoC]

If Blood Gorgons was written from a Death Guard point of view the Blood Gorgons would appear as weak and generally pathetic, but it isnt so they arent.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. This is something that comes up as a general 40K fiction theme a fair amount, and it's one that I feel pretty strongly about. If a story presents the factions like that, it's doing the enemy side an injustice. The characters in the story can think whatever they like, and they can interpret the enemy's culture, traditions and actions as weak and pathetic. Absolutely.

 

But the writing itself shouldn't portray the enemy as weak and pathetic, unless they actually are weak and pathetic. There's a difference between objective, descriptive prose and seeing through the biased eyes of an engaging character.

 

You shouldn't make an equal enemy look weaker or stupider just to show the characters' faction winning. That's not writing something from from another point of view; that's just bad writing.

Why you bash Ward's fiction ?

[Pavement Artist]

Forgive my failing eyesight as i age, but i dont think he mentioned Matt Ward anywhere in that post. Despite the fact that he can be guilty of hyperbole in his work, let's not forget that a codex is an entirely different beast to a novel. A codex is primarily designed to "big up" it's subject army. It has to included suitably larger than life moments if for anything, to get people stoked about playing the army. Imagine someone's reaction if they picked up the space wolves book and all the fluff was a timeline showing them getting consistently kneecapped by the Demiurg- you'd be less than excited about playing the army.

 

I've yet to pick up any of Zou's work but a friend rated his first novel quite highly.

 

Forgive my failing eyesight as i age, but i dont think he mentioned Matt Ward anywhere in that post. Despite the fact that he can be guilty of hyperbole in his work, let's not forget that a codex is an entirely different beast to a novel. A codex is primarily designed to "big up" it's subject army. It has to included suitably larger than life moments if for anything, to get people stoked about playing the army. Imagine someone's reaction if they picked up the space wolves book and all the fluff was a timeline showing them getting consistently kneecapped by the Demiurg- you'd be less than excited about playing the army.

 

I've yet to pick up any of Zou's work but a friend rated his first novel quite highly.

[Dan The Deamon]

The first quarter of the book was challenging for me, after that things started to move along. I'm not a huge fan of his style but I did like the way he created the Blood Gorgons. The book, in my eyes, was pretty much something to "get through" to learn more about them. I don't like being a harsh critic, but i felt most of what i was reading was redundant word count.

 

I think this novel is one of the ones that highlights something very prevalent in 40K novels. Some people read them as science-fiction novels, expecting decent writing and a good story; some people read them as deliverers of information, almost like a prose version of a codex, prizing the lore and easter eggs that haven't been seen before, and confess that they have no real interest in the quality of the writing; and some people (most, I suspect) run the spectrum between, leaning closer to the first half.

 

 

While i admit, most of my science fiction comes from "intel gathering", I actually picked up Zou's book because I heard he was former Australian military. I always wanted to read some work from that point of view, At first I could have sworn Dan Abnett had some experience with the military, his writing was so accurate I couldn't come up with any other conclusion, But Dan Abnett is just that good. I started Blood Gorgons hunting for clues as to what of Zou's own experiences, and training, he would try and include in a 40k setting. After not finding a whole lot I just kept reading for the chapters info.

 

I found that he wrote the Death Guard, and followers of Nurgle, from a pretty poor point of view. Each scene with the Blood Gorgons and Death Guard was so black and white I had a hard time buying his credibility as a 40k fan. The Blood Gorgons were made out to be stellar, perfect at being bad in every way, even in admission of their faults they were even cooler, while he wrote the death guard as being cartoony, kind of dumb and out of touch with reality. I suspect if he had replaced his unknown chapter with a well established, "intel free" one, I wouldn't have found the book to be very good.

[swarmtime]

I enjoyed this book, and felt it was fairly balanced between narrative and 40K universe description :D which face it, we all like. It actually converted me to do my first chaos/evil army, which also happens to be the Blood Gorgon's. While Zou may not be the greatest writer, i appreciate he is trying to be his own writer and for writing about fresh 40K material. I know about all the old school 40K stuff, i want to know about the Blood Gorgon's, and new stuff.

[darknightdrako]

I just finished the book and really enjoyed it. Though when

the riot occured in Cauldron Born

, I was hoping there would be a perspective of one of Murh's coven. It just felt something was missing during that incident, I mean slaves were even getting their points of view shown. It would have just been interesting to read the thoughts of a member of Murh's coven and what they did during the

riot

.

 

Aside from that it was hard to put down (Just like the other CSM books I had read). I meant to read this book during my daily commute riding the bus but most of it was read during at home ;). Plus it adds to my munitions of telling my friend that not all chaos marines are crazy loonies.

 

I think this novel is one of the ones that highlights something very prevalent in 40K novels. Some people read them as science-fiction novels, expecting decent writing and a good story; some people read them as deliverers of information, almost like a prose version of a codex, prizing the lore and easter eggs that haven't been seen before, and confess that they have no real interest in the quality of the writing; and some people (most, I suspect) run the spectrum between, leaning closer to the first half.

 

Yup thats me but leaning a tad bit the second half. :P

 

Now onward to reading Soul Hunter.

[Brother Ambroz]

I didn't mind this book, although I'll read pretty much any CSM book. I liked the way Zhou portrayed their culture. In regards to the Death Guard portrayal, I actually just ignored the fact they were Death Guard and imagined they were some other Nurgle-worshipping renegade band which seemed like it would have made more sense.

[Darkchild130]

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. This is something that comes up as a general 40K fiction theme a fair amount, and it's one that I feel pretty strongly about. If a story presents the factions like that, it's doing the enemy side an injustice. The characters in the story can think whatever they like, and they can interpret the enemy's culture, traditions and actions as weak and pathetic. Absolutely.

 

But the writing itself shouldn't portray the enemy as weak and pathetic, unless they actually are weak and pathetic. There's a difference between objective, descriptive prose and seeing through the biased eyes of an engaging character.

 

You shouldn't make an equal enemy look weaker or stupider just to show the characters' faction winning. That's not writing something from from another point of view; that's just bad writing.

 

I agree with what your saying, but I personally feel a lot of BL stuff does not conform to what you are saying.

 

that was the point I was going for.

 

Darkchild

[Another Random Geek]

Forgive my failing eyesight as i age, but i dont think he mentioned Matt Ward anywhere in that post. Despite the fact that he can be guilty of hyperbole in his work, let's not forget that a codex is an entirely different beast to a novel. A codex is primarily designed to "big up" it's subject army. It has to included suitably larger than life moments if for anything, to get people stoked about playing the army. Imagine someone's reaction if they picked up the space wolves book and all the fluff was a timeline showing them getting consistently kneecapped by the Demiurg- you'd be less than excited about playing the army.

 

Which brings up an interesting question, how much collaboration is there between BL and the guys who write the new codex fluff? Are the new authors told in advance that Grey Knights can ally with Daemonhosts and singlehandedly defeat traitor primarchs while merrily burning their way through multidimensional hellscapes previously unconquerable by the Emperor Himself, or are the novelists just as surprised as the rest of us when they stumble by their friendly local game shops?

 

IMHO, all canon in a universe such as 40K can be broken down into two categories: major and minor. Major fluff differs from minor fluff in that it is one of the necessary prerequisites for the foundation of the universe. An example of "Minor fluff" would be the introduction of the Land Raider Crusader or Storm Raven Gunship. The fact that the Space Marines have a certain new kind of tank or gunship does not necessarily add or detract from the setting. Likewise, whether or not the Ultramarines won the battle of Arsehole VII is by and large irrelevant in an empire of a million worlds, and therefore they can curbstomp or be curbstomped there for all anybody cares. However, if we have fluff in which Abbadon the Despoiler allies with the Tau to invade Terra, or that the Void Dragon is actually a Squat or whatever, then the foundation of the universe, and by extension, the universe itself, is harmed.

 

TL;DR: As far as I'm concerned, everybody has their "corner" of the 40k universe to play in, and as long as Mr. Zhou has the decency not to muck up other peoples' parts of it, then more power to him, I say.

 

EDIT: Well, so long as his writing isn't truly atrocious, but if it was, then he probably wouldn't have as many defenders as he does.

[Pavement Artist]

I dont think its so important for the novels and the codices to line up in terms of power levels. I expect a certain amount of hyperbole in a particular faction's army book, it is after all, essentially a propaganda piece for the particular force. I wouldn't want that sort of language translating into a novel however. Space marines are tricky creatures to connect with as it is without having them conquer entire daemon worlds on their tod.

 

I think that the sabbat worlds anthology demonstrated that a group of authors can collectively play in someone elses sandpit quite successfully. I'd like to see more cross pollination of the different stories in BL lore, not just in the Heresy series. Even if it's just incidental things like one of the templars in Helsreach quoting from Ravenor's book. Little touches like that help to present these stories as being part of one universal tapestry rather than disparate narrative elements.

[BLACK JOKER]

these guys are bad ass Flesh and Iron FOR THE WIN

[Warp Beast Bethomane]

I can't wait to get my hands on Blood Gorgons! Although I couldn't bear to finish Emperor's Mercy and picked up Flesh and Iron only reluctantly, I was pleasantly surprised that the second book was much better than I expected it to be. It's definitely a keeper and I must say turned my perception of Henry Zou's ability as a writer 180% around.

 

I've always preferred the writers who could dispense with the motherhood statements and happy endings in a setting like 40k. :D

[ashc]

I loved the book appearances and then their own, I thought they made for a very interesting renegade force with some actual motivations for what they do.

 

I'm going to use them as my next army, but can't decide what codex would be best to use with them, any suggestions?

[Gree]

So what's the consensus on this novel? Read it if you are a hardcore Chaos fan?

 

While i admit, most of my science fiction comes from "intel gathering", I actually picked up Zou's book because I heard he was former Australian military. I always wanted to read some work from that point of view, At first I could have sworn Dan Abnett had some experience with the military, his writing was so accurate I couldn't come up with any other conclusion, But Dan Abnett is just that good. I started Blood Gorgons hunting for clues as to what of Zou's own experiences, and training, he would try and include in a 40k setting. After not finding a whole lot I just kept reading for the chapters info.

 

I remember way back when Emperor's Mercy was being released. Zhou was pretty much being hyped as the next Abnett by Black Library.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

So what's the consensus on this novel? Read it if you are a hardcore Chaos fan?

 

Basically. It's the only one of Zou's books I own, and I bought it on the strength that it revolved around Chaos. It didn't disappoint me in that regard.