Grey Knight mk.II Fluff discussion

[AlexHolker]

I'm sure there's plenty of people who will love the fluff.

Sure. Matt Ward. Michael Bay. Twelve year old boys...

[SamaNagol]

lmao

 

Would give rep if I could

[A_POINTED_STICK]

As long as the models are cool who cares? I'm sure by 6th edition everything will be retconned... (for the worse).

 

Buy the models, use the rules write your own more appropriate fluff. It's a game. Wards codices are good ruled wise (overall) and there is no canon in 40k. Write your own version. I think most if the Ward Special Characters are cool if you massage the fluff. Sanguinor? Some sort of Imperial Angel who may or may not exist but has been seen occasionally when things are at their most dire as a portent inspiring the BA to victory? Possibly a manifestation of Sanguinius' number two Azkaelion? Pretty cool idea, needs some touch ups buts it's neat. Mephiston? Possibly an Imperial Daemoniac imbued by the power of Sanguinius/Khorne that already flows in their veins? Intriguing.

[Gentlemanloser]

OK, touched on in the News nd Rumour thread, if as the fluff states, there is no Initiate/Scout period, and when a sucessful Grey Knight graduates, he gets a set of TDA, and *some* choose to use Power Armour for the maneuvrability, then why does the SS have worse stats than the Termies?

 

Surely they're all the same capabilities, just different wargear?

 

Also, for a Chapter that can give everyone (each Brother Captain leads a Brotherhood of 1000 Grey Knights, and there are many more BC than there are the 8 Grand Masters...) TDA, why on earth do't the Strike Squads use Artificer Armour?

 

Edit: Mkes that 100, not 1000 B)

[Inache]

OK, touched on in the News nd Rumour thread, if as the fluff states, there is no Initiate/Scout period, and when a sucessful Grey Knight graduates, he gets a set of TDA, and *some* choose to use Power Armour for the maneuvrability, then why does the SS have worse stats than the Termies?

 

Surely they're all the same capabilities, just different wargear?

 

Also, for a Chapter that can give everyone (each Brother Captain leads a Brotherhood of 1000 Grey Knights, and there are many more BC than there are the 8 Grand Masters...) TDA, why on earth do't the Strike Squads use Artificer Armour?

 

Edit: Mkes that 100, not 1000 :teehee:

 

They would have the same capabilities. If both weren't wearing armor. TDA and Power Armor have far different capabilities even if the Astartes wearing them is the same. And Artificer Armor is more of a status symbol than a requirement. They don't just make Artificer Armor on an assembly line. It's an continuous series of upgrades that culminates in this unique and highly valued suit of armor. Which is why it's usually only an upgrade for a leader.

[Gentlemanloser]

I can't accept the +1A from TDA as the answer.

 

This was, to reflect the extra 'veteren' training the Marines had. *All* GK have the same base trianing on leaving initiation. *All* should have the same number of attacks. The Purifiers get 2A in Power Armour for example.

 

But the kicker is the Leadership. There is no explaination for why SSGK have a Ld of 8, while TDA GK have 9. No rational at all.

 

The basics stats should be the same for all type of GK. From TDA to SS to Purgation.

 

Purifiers could have thier own stuff, but then that's easily represented by their Fearless-ness.

 

Which is why it's usually only an upgrade for a leader.

 

Or give to whole Squads of Saunguiny Guard? IF the BA can have that much, the GK should be able to give it to anyone.

 

Hell, the Inquisition is *throwing* Power Armour, Storm Bolters and Storm Shiled on any half trained *human*. With that sort of resources no GK should be out of Artificer Armour (if not in TDA or better).

[jamsight]

Is the SSGK the squad with the warp quake ? if it is then they have Ld 8 so that they woun't be poping it to easily I know I am slighty of topic here so I wouldn't drag it out just look at the codex as a whole, I am quite happy with it. (partically looking forward to poping mind blades on eldar banchees letting Stern banish them).Some bits are mad but it's all about refinement as I was trying to say in an earlier post they throw it out there and see what sinks and what swims so lets try and keep postive ^_^

 

As for the artificer argument the Sang guard use it because it is the same armour they wore when they guarded Sangunius every suit in that brotherhood is over 10,000 years old when yes the Imperium could make mass amounts of artificer armour ,the Grey knights where founded after the heresy so maybe they just couldn't make it anymore, also Grey Knight TDA is very specailist so it isn't beyond reason to say they make their own suits on Titian somewhere.

 

As for one squad having more attacks than another I can't think of any fluff reasons why that. But game wise it's proberly too keep their points down and I get the impression they are a shooty unit.

 

Sorry if this is off topic abit.

[Gentlemanloser]

if it is then they have Ld 8 so that they woun't be poping it to easily

 

Strike Squad Justicar has Ld9, which would be used for Peril tests for Quake.

[Inache]

+1A is because TDA can swing harder so they have greater follow through on their strikes, enabling them to hit more than one enemy

 

Higher leadership is due to being in an almost impervious suit of armor. I'd feel more confident in my leadership if I was in TDA. And a Justicar is a leader, so obviously his leadership would be higher.

 

:)

[jamsight]

my mistake. So apart from the Grey Knights is there any new fluff in regards to the Inquisition or Offico Assassium (spelling but I not got the book in front of me)? I've read Cortaz and find how he is starting to struggle with his morales over his mission an intresting twist

[Inache]

Unfortunately no new Assassin fluff. I hope there's an Apoc datasheet for a formation of assassins ala Nemesis

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

There already is. Unfortunately, the GW site is down, so I can't get you a link. I'll PM it to you when the site's back up.

[Dilgar]

As a new codex downs, and much is already know about it, should we put up (again) an "Are you a Puritan, Radical or something in between?" poll?

 

Could be fun, and people might have changhed views :angry:

[Inache]

There already is. Unfortunately, the GW site is down, so I can't get you a link. I'll PM it to you when the site's back up.

 

Yeah, the Officio Assassinorum Execution Force. That's strictly one temple at a time. I'd like to have one where you can take one or more from each temple together.

[Marmande]

Yeah, the Officio Assassinorum Execution Force. That's strictly one temple at a time. I'd like to have one where you can take one or more from each temple together.

 

Why not just house rule your own using the custom Formation pdf? Talk it over with whomever runs your Apocalypse games and work something out; I don't think it would be much of a problem.

[Justcar]

On the subject of fluff not matching the rules, why can't our dreads use actual psychic powers? The venerable dreads are supposed to be brother captains and grand masters! Why can't they use the psychic powers that they used to know?

[Inache]

I would assume it has something to do with the fact that their bodies are severely damaged, to the point that trying to channel the psychic energy would consume them. The fact that the most powerful psykers entombed within a Dreadnought can exercise their skill at all is a testament to their former power.

 

Why not just house rule your own using the custom Formation pdf? Talk it over with whomever runs your Apocalypse games and work something out; I don't think it would be much of a problem.

 

That would require me to A ) Finish painting my assassins B ) Finish enough Grey Knights to make a dent in an Apoc game. :D

[Justcar]

But if there are furiosos flying around and shooting lightning out of their :D es, then why can't our GKs do the same. All of them are psykers for crying out loud!

[Inache]

But if there are furiosos flying around and shooting lightning out of their ;) es, then why can't our GKs do the same. All of them are psykers for crying out loud!

 

Because Blood Angels are nearly suicidal. :cuss

[Justcar]

But that is no excuse for the rules to be less powerful! If they wanted to accurately represent the fluff, then they would make dreads more psychic!

[Alessander]

i believe that all nemesis weapons (including the nemesis dreadclaws) will count as force weapons, since while at first this seems way overpowered (golly TEN FORCE WEAPONS IN ONE SQUAD!!) it's very well balanced out by Brotherhood of Psykers rule - a squad can only do one psychic test per turn, so it's either the squad's psychic power (usually hammerhand, astral aim or whatever) or forgo it and go for the single force weapon attack.

 

I'm also believing that the nemesis warding stave will indeed grant a 2+ invul save as rumored, but since it's so widely available for only 25 points each, it will come with some drawback such as:

• the wielder always fights at initiative 1
  
• the stave does not ignore armor saves
  
• the stave does not count as a weapon in close combat (a la storm/combat shields)
  
• the save does not allow the wielder (or possibly nearby friendly models) to make psychic tests, thus nullifying the force weapon kill ability
  

 

I am in no way convinced that the leak is fan fiction. GW didn't give a rat's ass about the fake Blood Angels codex, but the amount of legal frenzy that GW's gone through makes it obvious this is legit.

 

The advanced stage of the layout process also makes it obvious that it's a final copy of the rules (not th elayout), not just a rules playtest. GW wouldn't pay someone to make such a well-made layout for a playtest.

[Justcar]

In all rumors that I have heard, it counts as a power weapon

 

Initiative 1 is to much for the benefit

 

CCW would just make it useless

[GreaterDragon]

My first impression was that they decided to go for weird stuff happening because the whole Chapter is made of psykers, and weird stuff happen when you mess with the warp no matter how pure or incorruptible you are. So we get things like ghost terminators, daemon swords that affect those attacking you and an immortal Brother captain.After all,the warp is a place where ideas take on form.I have to admit I liked the part in Draigo's fluff where it says he carved a legend in a place where legends take life.Who knows what consequences his actions in the warp will have?

[A_POINTED_STICK]

All I know is that if the Grey Knights use Daemon Weapons the Relictors are going to be... The good guys with legitimate grievances as to the censorship they received, the theft of their relics, and general holier than thou treatment they received. Now I can argue sinister purposes behind the Grey Knights actions against them. Looks like unlike the Soul Drinker heretics the Relictors are loyal but in a shadow war with the Inquisition over exorbitantly priced limited edition nicknacks. Look, a bright side to possible fluff devolution.

[Vindicatus]

Guys, keep it on topic.

 

Discussion about wargear as it pertains to gameplay, character statlines and such belong in the Codex Rumour thread, not the fluff discussion.

 

That said, I'm going to have to agree that when Ward kitbashes a codex together, it seems to appeal more to people who like lots of flash, banner-waving, etc etc. It just so happens that someone mentioned just who this seems to appeal to (thanks, Alex), and while I understand that there is no set demographic as to who plays and who doesn't, it brings a lot of pain to the general population that roll dice. Mord's idea behind the fluff isn't so bad, but perhaps how they worded it should be polished up a little bit. I can definitely agree with and see the 'ghost knights' as a sort of 'Grey Knight Legion of the Damned', brought out in times of great stress and mortal peril. While the idea is a bit of a yank from the LotD, I still think it's viable.

 

Crowe makes me gag. Draigo I look to with a dubious eye, but need to do more research on; I just got back from vacation and have a lot of catching up to do on the posts accrued while I was gone.