Black Legion Warband: The Aphotican Oath

[Lexington]

Colour Scheme: In the Index Astartes article, the Marines in the datafile have green-rimmed black armour, as well as the more common gold rims. I'm tempted to try that, as it's more like a reverse of the Sons of Horus armour, and I think it'll look more interesting than the plain old black 'n gold. Anyone have any experience with that?

I've never tried it before, but you might look into a heavy patina effect, which would give you the greenish tint and a feeling of ancient, corroded metal that would be appropriately atmospheric.

 

Well, okay, patina's not actually corrosion, it's a coating, but...ah, hell, I think everyone gets it.

 

Vehicles: I am woeful at painting tanks. Absolutely woeful. I can never get them with a smooth finish, and in all honesty, I don't have the money to screw up a Defiler just because I wanted to see what would happen. So any tank tips would be great.

Flow improver is your best friend here, which gives a nice, flat feel to large surfaces (the linked article makes it sound daunting, but I'm a novice painter at best and had a handle on it after a test mini or two). I use Reaper's, and tend to throw in a bit of P3 Mixing Medium for good measure, but I've got friends who swear by that Future Floor Wax stuff as well. Mess around a bit, see what works best for you, but you really shouldn't paint any miniature without some sort of flow improver handy.

 

So my question is basically this: What do you think? Is the campaign fluff too static and traditional? Does it sound interesting?

The setting's nice and slightly different, while still being very 40K, but I'd say the narrative needs a bit of urgency on one side or the other. It's stupid-difficult to coordinate that kind of thing when you've got so many forces crashing together, though, so...*shrug* Individual plots and hatreds between forces might be a better way to play up drama than relying on a singular maguffin to unite everything.

 

What advice can you give to a new Chaos Marine player, beyond "Play Counts-As Blood Angels"?

Outside of the high-stress test environment of the tournament scene, the Chaos Codex is a much better list than it usually gets credit for, at least in my experience. You've got an unbelievably flexible Troops choice in Chaos Space Marines, plus other specialists that can perform their specific duties with varying degrees of cromulence. You have an army-wide precision Deep Strike method in Icons, and while they're not as nasty as one might wish them to be, there's very few things in the game that look forward to being on the receiving end of Chaos Terminators' infinitely-customizable wrath. Looks like your campaign's going to involve a lot of Marines, so a combination of Lightning Claws and the Mark of Slaanesh is going to be a good value here, on both Terminators and Raptors (LCs for the Champs, anyway).

 

Other than that...well, they play like Space Marines. Power Armor goes in Rhinos, Terminators go in Land Raiders, and you just sort of hope your opponent isn't toting enough accurate AP3+ weaponry to make your day a pain. At the end of the day, you're using an old Codex that people are generally dismissive of, so you might just surprise everyone.

 

Curious - what're you looking at using for the Daemon Prince?

[Alys]

Just a quick comment. Guy in the Wolverhampton GW was painting his Landraider... with a sponge. A piece of pick and pluck foam from his case, and although it involved maybe a little more effort, it totally removed brush lines, and even added a level of highlighting (as the sponge has problems getting into slight recesses). Not sure of the colours (it was BA) but he went over it twice, once with a slightly lighter paint, and then finally, he took a wash and applied it with a very thin brush around the recesses between the armour plates. Finally, highlighting (with a slightly-off the base coat colour) which he did so it wasn't too "in your face", and it was just about done.

 

Not sure if that would help, but I know when I finish building my next Rhino, I'm trying that method.

[Artein]

I have one more idea for Chosens....

 

Alpha Legion.

Infiltrate.

Blue armour and omegas.

"Hey, we're Ultramarines, for the Emperor!" *blam!*

[A D-B]

Many thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

The test model is made. Such drama.

 

Regarding the assembly, I'd suggest modelling some little details on every Astartes. Things like chains, gun-belts, some 'nades or/and horns make them look much more interesting and more like the elite they're supposed to be. Even the rank & file troops deserve their share of extra stuff, so don't go into town just with the chosen when it comes into detail. Using those holsters you get with the sprue is also a nice addition (the "new" boxes still have these, right?).

 

I'm quite keen on each Marine having his own collection of gubbinz, yeah. Every model should tell a story, even if it's only "Sarleth brought a couple of extra knives to this firefight", or whatever. I'm looking at pillaging relevant ornate stuff from the Dark Angel, Blood Angel and Black Templar sprues.

 

 

As for the story I wouldn't worry that much unless you plan to have certain events triggered by what happens in game (twists if you like), otherwise the game will evolve as it is played and the challenge will be to update the story (if this is your plan?) as the game goes along to make it interesting and make sense. Anyway a lot of that depends on what kind of campaign mechanics you are using? Is anyone else tasked to do that or has it been done?

 

Mechanics are still under discussion. A lot of the need for a campaign is based on the fact that several of the players are writers, be it professionally or just keen about it in their spare time), and we're all in the position of really needing a narrative for something like this to actually be worthwhile. What matters is what worlds fall, how they do it, who betrays whom, and why they did that. You get the idea.

 

That said, I'm looking into the campaign tiles and stuff. Any ideas for introducing worthy mechanics into a campaign is doubly appreciated.

 

 

Getting a unit of Fallen in the mix is an excellent idea. Its always nice to just have a few different and stand out models in ones army. I plan on having one of my Terminators be an Imperial Fist traitor (based on the Lysander model) and leave him to be mostly still painted as a Fist. Gives a bit of character and in my case pays homage to probably my favourite loyalist chapter.

 

That rocks on toast.

 

 

*Algol isn't that the name of the planet where the Ultramarines travel from in the opening of Ultramarines the Movie?

 

I confess, I have no idea. I just dig it as a real-life astronomy reference.

 

 

This is a link to my Black Legion with the Charadon Granite/Badab wash I told you about

makes the best Ancient Black IMO

 

That's freaking killer. I may give that colour scheme a shot for the black. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

 

Outside of the high-stress test environment of the tournament scene, the Chaos Codex is a much better list than it usually gets credit for, at least in my experience. You've got an unbelievably flexible Troops choice in Chaos Space Marines, plus other specialists that can perform their specific duties with varying degrees of cromulence. You have an army-wide precision Deep Strike method in Icons, and while they're not as nasty as one might wish them to be, there's very few things in the game that look forward to being on the receiving end of Chaos Terminators' infinitely-customizable wrath. Looks like your campaign's going to involve a lot of Marines, so a combination of Lightning Claws and the Mark of Slaanesh is going to be a good value here, on both Terminators and Raptors (LCs for the Champs, anyway).

 

While I'm not overly bothered about performance issues, that's a killer idea, and one I suspect will evolve out of the army's composition, anyway. I like the idea of a variety of Marks because it's not only justified by the Black Legion, it's one of the coolest and most interesting things in their lore. So a Terminator Squad or a Chaos Marine Squad with a separate Mark to most of their fellows would rock a bunch, even for something as basic as modelling purposes.

 

Essentially, I just love the idea of these self-contained squads following their own whims in regards to worship, since - as Chaos Marines - they spend most of their time fighting each other, anyway. With the Black Legion's past as warriors who turned to whatever gods benefitted them at the time, I dig the idea that several squads may still hold different allegiances to their brothers. But that's for something later, when the warband is a little bigger. In the opening phases, I'll probably stick to a traditionalist, bonded core of warriors.

 

 

Curious - what're you looking at using for the Daemon Prince?

 

I have no idea. I want him to be a newly-ascended creature, more cautious and protective of his position than he wants to reveal. While he'd still be immensely powerful in his own right, compared to established daemon princes he's just a whelp. I suspect he won't have wings, as they look like a nightmare to paint. They also run the risk of making the model look to Fantasyish, if there aren't many touches to scream "Power Armour".

 

I'm also looking for options regarding a head that looks more Chaos Marine helmet-ish than the standard ones. I like the idea of his helm warping and fusing to his face, growing ceramite jaws and so on, rather than just a daemon's ugly grin being the visage he presents to the world.

 

 

Just a quick comment. Guy in the Wolverhampton GW was painting his Landraider... with a sponge. A piece of pick and pluck foam from his case, and although it involved maybe a little more effort, it totally removed brush lines, and even added a level of highlighting (as the sponge has problems getting into slight recesses). Not sure of the colours (it was BA) but he went over it twice, once with a slightly lighter paint, and then finally, he took a wash and applied it with a very thin brush around the recesses between the armour plates. Finally, highlighting (with a slightly-off the base coat colour) which he did so it wasn't too "in your face", and it was just about done.

 

Not sure if that would help, but I know when I finish building my next Rhino, I'm trying that method.

 

If my initial experiments go all spoony, then I may give that a shot. It sounds interesting, and with little chance of a drastic mishap.

 

 

I have one more idea for Chosens....

 

Alpha Legion.

Infiltrate.

Blue armour and omegas.

"Hey, we're Ultramarines, for the Emperor!" *blam!*

 

My problem with that is one I have with a lot of 40K fiction, actually. I tend to perceive all Marines as having pretty rudimentary (by sci-fi standards) but very efficient retinal displays playing out over their eye lenses almost all of the time. It's the sort of thing that runs a flatline sound when one of your squad just died, automatically locks onto a target and subtly pulls your bolter hand in that direction, and flashes obvious armour damage, as well as known allegiances, so you immediately aim elsewhere in the middle of the battlefield, rather than accidentally shooting your brother in the back. And it works, because Marines are trained to think and move that fast.

 

So in that example (and I'm not saying it's wrong, as a lot of writers and gamers do run with the disguise thing), but my perception would make it void by virtue of the retinal displays and the Marines' own eidetic, trained minds instantly letting them realise that something wasn't right.

[Hyaenidae]

Colour Scheme: In the Index Astartes article, the Marines in the datafile have green-rimmed black armour, as well as the more common gold rims. I'm tempted to try that, as it's more like a reverse of the Sons of Horus armour, and I think it'll look more interesting than the plain old black 'n gold. Anyone have any experience with that?

This might help with either the greenish trim, or just making your gold look ancient...

I did a Basecoat of black, then a coat of Burnished Gold. Washed with Devlan Mud. Then I Mixed 50/50 Hawk Turquoise and Scorpion Green, and watered it down to the consistancy of a wash, then washed the gold with it. After that, I just drybrushed Burnished Gold on the raised areas. It was my first time trying this, and I have pretty shaky hands, but it worked pretty well. Hope this helps, man.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I have no idea. I want him to be a newly-ascended creature, more cautious and protective of his position than he wants to reveal. While he'd still be immensely powerful in his own right, compared to established daemon princes he's just a whelp. I suspect he won't have wings, as they look like a nightmare to paint. They also run the risk of making the model look to Fantasyish, if there aren't many touches to scream "Power Armour".

 

I'm also looking for options regarding a head that looks more Chaos Marine helmet-ish than the standard ones. I like the idea of his helm warping and fusing to his face, growing ceramite jaws and so on, rather than just a daemon's ugly grin being the visage he presents to the world.

 

 

Like, oh, one of the leftover Defiler masks, by chance? ;)

 

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/Zeonfiend/025.jpg

[Lord_Starscream]

He's right, Defiler Masks are an easy solution. My latest Daemon Prince bears such a mask. Looks awesome, relatively easy conversion to do and just changes the look of the whole model.

 

Also, if I can give you a piece of advice for your regular marines?

 

I never take heavy weapons in my Chaos Space Marine squads. I've not played with them in over a year, but what was stunningly successful for my army was the ability to constantly move and fire all my dangerous weapons. Instead of taking a Heavy Bolter or some such, my squads were always geared up with 2 plasma guns, or a plas and a melta. Works wonders, rapid fire or assault are the only things I take in a CSM squad. Heavy weapons? Thats what the Havocs, Obliterators, or Tanks are for. And if you want tank killing? Take the Melta.

 

The ability to keep in motion and unleash your squads full shooty killingness is a great benefit over the Loyalists, who don't have the option to take 2 assault special weapons, and must be bogged down with a heavy weapon for added firepower.

[Lord_Caerolion]

There's also the Inquisitor-scale Marine model, which I think comes with a helmet.

[Hellios]

As for the story I wouldn't worry that much unless you plan to have certain events triggered by what happens in game (twists if you like), otherwise the game will evolve as it is played and the challenge will be to update the story (if this is your plan?) as the game goes along to make it interesting and make sense. Anyway a lot of that depends on what kind of campaign mechanics you are using? Is anyone else tasked to do that or has it been done?

 

Mechanics are still under discussion. A lot of the need for a campaign is based on the fact that several of the players are writers, be it professionally or just keen about it in their spare time), and we're all in the position of really needing a narrative for something like this to actually be worthwhile. What matters is what worlds fall, how they do it, who betrays whom, and why they did that. You get the idea.

 

That said, I'm looking into the campaign tiles and stuff. Any ideas for introducing worthy mechanics into a campaign is doubly appreciated.

 

 

Ahh I feel that I came off like saying the story didn't matter! My bad! No I love narrative games and one of the biggest reasons to play a campaign is the story. I meant not to worry too much about what you had written that it was fine and that if you wanted to make it more 'spicy' if that was an issue would depend on how the mechanics are run. For example some campaigns are run by the narrative (the story is already done), while other campaigns have the story written as they go along in more of a free flow.

 

I've a bit of experiance with campaigns from complex to simple, I'll PM you some ideas and if you like any I can expand on them and so on.

[Candleshoes]

I never take heavy weapons in my Chaos Space Marine squads.

 

One interesting thing of note, that caters more to the fluff/loremaster, is the fact that basic CSM can take a unique weapon that the loyalists cannot, or rather, will not due to instability ... the humble dual barreled autocannon. As seen by some awesome conversions on B&C, if you end up buying / have the chaos terminator box already, and you take a heavy flamer over the expensive reaper autocannon, you can use it and convert it to be lugged around by a heavy weapons marine. You've seen DTD's conversion:

 

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p113/Darkbeastman/gallery_31335_1757_9030.jpg

 

I think one thing all chaos players have in common, is that we celebrate what makes us and our list unique compared to the followers of the corpse-god, even in something as small as a weapon choice in a squad.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Ahh I feel that I came off like saying the story didn't matter! My bad! No I love narrative games and one of the biggest reasons to play a campaign is the story. I meant not to worry too much about what you had written that it was fine and that if you wanted to make it more 'spicy' if that was an issue would depend on how the mechanics are run. For example some campaigns are run by the narrative (the story is already done), while other campaigns have the story written as they go along in more of a free flow.

 

I've a bit of experiance with campaigns from complex to simple, I'll PM you some ideas and if you like any I can expand on them and so on.

 

Gotta love the narrative campaign. Can't remember the name of it, but me and some other members of a Night Lord forum were involved in a Eye of Terror style campaign, done by posting reports online, but it was much smaller scale, so we could better organise strategy and so on. Being the leader of the Night Lord contingent, let me tell you, ordering your men to commit genocide on the nation you're fighting alongside, so as to eliminate a persistant rebel threat... it has a weird feeling. Cool, but the knowledge that you just condemned countless thousands of civilians to death, by uttering one simple sentence, even though they're fictitious... nothing I've done in other games has managed to recreate that feeling.

 

I mean, this was a campaign where there were only a few dozen members on each side, if that, and the campaign organisers were highly open to suggestions from the faction leaders as to what each faction was going to do. We started off doing damn well, to the point that we captured our entire continent, my Chaos Lord overthrowing the leader of the other nation, while our over-all leader took a position of leadership over the entire continent. Unfortunately, that meant that survivors of the enemy nation managed to whip up some rebellions in our nation, which spread. End effect, the rest of our Chaos faction headed off to the other continent, to continue our expansion, while we Night Lords stuck around to do what we do best. Plain and simple genocide.

 

That, ladies and gentlemen, is why I love 40k, and will never leave my Night Lords. Tournament play cannot replace that feeling. The feeling that by your actions, you have just condemned entire populations to death. It may be fiction, but damn it was cool.

[esinhorn]

Plus if you do not like Ancient Black you can always just cover with Chaos Black,just remember let the first wash completely dry before adding the second.

You can even get a little funky and mix a little of the blue and black washes together

[Emperors Immortals]

Just a quick note - the Apothtic Zone in any body of water is a place where sunlight does not reach and so has no photosynthesis present - there are therefore no marine plant life either.

 

It is a truly dead zone in water, and psychologically triggers the same response as when viewing the darkest parts of a wooded picture or when actually confronted with a darkened space (ie; fear of the occluded, or negative zones).

 

Ive actually studied this a little when i was still at University for my Psych degree, its a vary interesting phenomenon and VERY widespread and also the reason so many people are both fascinated and scared of all those Alpine lake pictures - the ones with the dead calm water and the lovely mountain.

 

Hope that helps a little, also i think Princeton still allows access to there library for non-enrolled parties.(individual people that is, not the gathering.)

 

 

 

 

P.S; Please tell Gav that theres at least one person that liked the codex - ive always loved his work. /endcrawling.

[Rik Riorik]

Are you going to be using stuff from the Planetary Empires campaign stuff for the campaign? Been mulling over investing in it for a bit of ideas of how to construct a campaign myself so Im wondering if it is any good.

[Master Exorcist]

So in that example (and I'm not saying it's wrong, as a lot of writers and gamers do run with the disguise thing), but my perception would make it void by virtue of the retinal displays and the Marines' own eidetic, trained minds instantly letting them realise that something wasn't right.

 

thats the beauty of the alpha legion....its what they are best at :P

 

You could base the campaign on the old fantasy border princes map campaign.....just use a new map where each section is a planet.

 

You could use a metal obliterator to represent your daemon prince? Theres a good example of a death guard one in WD a few years back....around the release of 4th ed.

 

ME

[A D-B]

Me and Katie have made our first 5-man test squads. I have a signing thing this weekend, but we'll start painting next week. These are literally her first models (she has Assault on Black Reach for the start of her Shadow Wolves), and these'll be the first 40K models I've ever actually finished. Like I said, I've fielded entire unpainted armies before, much to my teenage shame.

Suffice to say, as raw beginners, she's optimistic and I'm more... cautiously hopeful. I'm not a bad painter, just not particularly good, or experienced, or fast.

She seems pretty serious about blogging her progress. I may nudge her in the direction of B&C, actually. You guys will be a lot more constructive and gentle than the wider internet. She's a filthy loyalist, but no one's perfect. I'll probably still marry her.

The campaign army list is looking like this, so far:

Grey Knights

Space Marines (Shadow Wolves)

Space Marines (Dark Angels)

Eldar

Imperial Guard

Chaos Marines (Iron Warriors)

Chaos Marines (Black Legion)

Chaos Marines (Nurgle)

Just a quick note - the Apothtic Zone in any body of water is a place where sunlight does not reach and so has no photosynthesis present - there are therefore no marine plant life either.

I KNOW THAT, OH MY GOD, JEEZ, I'LL KILL YOU.

It is a truly dead zone in water, and psychologically triggers the same response as when viewing the darkest parts of a wooded picture or when actually confronted with a darkened space (ie; fear of the occluded, or negative zones).

Ive actually studied this a little when i was still at University for my Psych degree, its a vary interesting phenomenon and VERY widespread and also the reason so many people are both fascinated and scared of all those Alpine lake pictures - the ones with the dead calm water and the lovely mountain.

Hope that helps a little, also i think Princeton still allows access to there library for non-enrolled parties.(individual people that is, not the gathering.)

In all seriousness, that's pretty cool. Thanks for the info. I suspected it was fairly common (none of my tics or fears are particularly unique, as far as I know), but it's always good to hear from someone who really knows their stuff.

P.S; Please tell Gav that theres at least one person that liked the codex - ive always loved his work. /endcrawling.

I think saying "Dude, I know a guy who liked the Chaos Codex" to him is likely to be something of a negative compliment. Though I quite like it, myself. I think it's founded on a cool core concept and style, I just think the mechanics and points of several units are flawed.

Ahh I feel that I came off like saying the story didn't matter! My bad! No I love narrative games and one of the biggest reasons to play a campaign is the story. I meant not to worry too much about what you had written that it was fine and that if you wanted to make it more 'spicy' if that was an issue would depend on how the mechanics are run. For example some campaigns are run by the narrative (the story is already done), while other campaigns have the story written as they go along in more of a free flow.

I've a bit of experiance with campaigns from complex to simple, I'll PM you some ideas and if you like any I can expand on them and so on.

You came across fine, man. And I'd still love to get some rules crunch into the background fluff. Thanks for the PM, by the way. Some great ideas there.

Are you going to be using stuff from the Planetary Empires campaign stuff for the campaign? Been mulling over investing in it for a bit of ideas of how to construct a campaign myself so Im wondering if it is any good.

I might be doing a monthly column on GW.com soon, so I may beg for Planetary Empires and a set of the map tiles as "research". I think it looks great, so I'll be getting hold of it one way or another before too long, though I'm still personally in the dark about its practical application. I'll keep you posted.

I think one thing all chaos players have in common, is that we celebrate what makes us and our list unique compared to the followers of the corpse-god, even in something as small as a weapon choice in a squad.

I really, really, really like flamers. I know they're not exactly glorious against MEQ, but I love the way they look in a Marine's hands, and I love the whole flamethrower-in-war deal. Very 40K. I like plasma guns and meltaguns for similar reasons; they look sick, especially when you've got two of them in a squad.

While I think autocannons rock on toast, I think I'd save them for Havoc Squads. Purely a comsetic thing off the top of my head, and one I'm sure will change if I can ever convert like DtD can.

There's also the Inquisitor-scale Marine model, which I think comes with a helmet.

Now that sounds tasty. Expensive, but tasty.

Like, oh, one of the leftover Defiler masks, by chance? :blink:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/Zeonfiend/025.jpg

He's right, Defiler Masks are an easy solution. My latest Daemon Prince bears such a mask. Looks awesome, relatively easy conversion to do and just changes the look of the whole model.

That does look about 800 times better, I have to say. My only hesitation is that I'd probably use that head for the Defiler itself, thus denying its place atop the shoulders of my Daemon Prince.

This is a surprisingly tough deal, and one I'd not expected to dwell on. I think I'll be delaying the Daemon Prince's inclusion in the army until about 2,000 points. That way, I can work on the guys I know how to build and paint, without killing myself worrying over the head honcho's helmet. Really, the daemon faces are a model-killer for me. It has to be a helm, preferably one as Chaos Mariney as possible.

Conversely, I really dig Chaos Marines without helmets. Go figure.

Colour Scheme: In the Index Astartes article, the Marines in the datafile have green-rimmed black armour, as well as the more common gold rims. I'm tempted to try that, as it's more like a reverse of the Sons of Horus armour, and I think it'll look more interesting than the plain old black 'n gold. Anyone have any experience with that?

This might help with either the greenish trim, or just making your gold look ancient...

I did a Basecoat of black, then a coat of Burnished Gold. Washed with Devlan Mud. Then I Mixed 50/50 Hawk Turquoise and Scorpion Green, and watered it down to the consistancy of a wash, then washed the gold with it. After that, I just drybrushed Burnished Gold on the raised areas. It was my first time trying this, and I have pretty shaky hands, but it worked pretty well. Hope this helps, man.

That actually looks lush. It's a lot lighter than the golds and greens in the IA article, but I think part of that is camera flash - and it looks pretty great, anyway. I may give that a go.

[Warsmith Aznable]

She's a filthy loyalist, but no one's perfect. I'll probably still marry her.

 

At least she's not a filthy xenos, so there is still hope she'll see the lies of the Corpse God for what they are someday.

 

Really, the daemon faces are a model-killer for me. It has to be a helm, preferably one as Chaos Mariney as possible.

 

I had a similar thought when I opened the Daemon Prince box. It's hands down one of the best kits I've bought, but I really wanted there to be a Marine helmet in there. I thought about the Defiler masks but I think they're just slightly too big. That and there must be some rulebook outlining that all Chaos mutations must include at least one REALLY long finger on each hand. What's that finger for? Is it like the "coke nail" of Warp creatures? Do they often lose their keys in strange, narrow places and need to fish them out? Thankfully they are easily trimmed.

[Raye]

The campaign sounds like utter bossness, and I don't think I can really offer much advice to improve that!

 

I miiight be able to be Some Help with painting/modelling though.

 

I think with Black Legion the best thing to do to get them looking nice without poring over them for hours shading black is to weather the living daylights out of them.

 

There was a nice chipping/weathering step-by-step in the Bangels issue of White Dwarf that I started doing on my tanks, and it looks pretty sweet - I've basically just been nicking the very edges of large areas with Chaos Black, then Boltgun Metal scratches, and it looks alright!

 

I recently painted a Black Templar, and spent some time lining each plate of his armour with Dheneb Stone (sp?) which looks quite nice once it's washed down to mute the tones a little, which works quite nicely to 'break up the black' as an alternative to building up layers of grey:

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mjwNZbvjn1Y/TTxE6GHEPKI/AAAAAAAAAKA/1CZ8NSczx_s/s1600/navarre2.jpg

 

Annoyingly, you can't really see the lining on that photograph at all.

 

Oh, and as well as all those bitz that you mentioned, the new Death Company sprue has some amazing bitz and pieces for conversion kits. Quite blood drop heavy though, so you might need to do some creative clipping.

 

Oh. I have a set of MASSIVE chainswords and claymore looking things that I'm still not sure what I actually bought them for. If you wanted one, or Katie wants one, for a cool weapon for a commander, or whatever, just buzz me and I'll bring them to BLL! on Saturday. (They're just about outscale for an Astartes - sort of like a two-handed chainsword.)

 

/waffle

 

RR

[Guest Cate]

When it comes to Daemon princes and fluff, I think you do the right thing to put him/her/it on hold till you hit the 1500-2000p mark. Me and a couple of my friends have been running a campaign which have spanned over a decade and our main characters have evolved during the time, my Dp started out as a puny little girl in a renegade guard force and today she is a full-blown spell casting, winged Daemon prince, leading her chaos marine band with over 150 chaos marines and countless renegade guards. As long as we don't play Apoc I only run one HQ as I do have trouble seeing these bitter, egocentric, paranoid, megalomaniacs letting other powerful characters be around them.

 

She has been transformed several times, so I understand what you mean when you want your daemon prince look like it recently ascended. If I were you I would go with the "new" plastic prince, and let it have as much as possible of the stuff that could possibly be larger marine bits, power armour chest, and shoulders, the other parts are more of hardened daemon skin which a new prince wouldn't have gotten yet. As you said you don't want to use the wings and that is a wise decision, a new prince wouldn't have gotten them yet. As for the head which might be the hardest part to symbolise a new prince, I would recommend going with the head with the straight horns, either filed down or just representing that horns might be the first gift a "daemon prince to be" gets.

When it comes to the colours I can only advice you to go close to his original skin with a hint of turning towards some sort of daemon skin. My prince for example has purple skin which is very close to the daemons she summons forth when she uses them. I only use daemonettes as I am a pure slaanesh player, and you might think of which god your prince is closest to, even if he might be chaos undecided one or two of the gods must have found your prince interesting so they have granted him some gifts.

 

Creating a story around a Daemon prince is fun as these semi-gods have been around for a long time at least 2k+ years. and imagine where and why they gotten their powers is in my opinion a large chunk of the fluff around your warband, they are the central character in any chaos marine army.

 

Just my two thrones

 

/Cate

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Vehicles: I am woeful at painting tanks. Absolutely woeful. I can never get them with a smooth finish, and in all honesty, I don't have the money to screw up a Defiler just because I wanted to see what would happen. So any tank tips would be great.

 

I'll be in Nottingham, Warhammer World on April 15th (Throne of Skulls April) if you ever need any painting help, as I feel it better to show someone, like I don't play WFB but I know the rules from doing intro games (ex-GW Edinbrugh staffer) rather than reading the rule book as I pick up the rules better from gaming :P

 

Fallen Squad: I'd really love a (small, maybe 5-man) Dark Angel Fallen squad. I think it would be a cool alliance, with them grudgingly hanging out with my warband (perhaps as mercenary allies of the sorcerer), and it would give the Dark Angels something to hate me for. My problem is that I never know just how much iconography the Fallen actually display - assuming these are Chaos Undivided "evil" Fallen, not misunderstood guys who want redemption.

 

GW did have a unit of converted Fallen Angels on the web site before it got change over, see if I can find the image in one of my many photosbucket accounts

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/ironwarriors/insane%20psycopath/Stus_Fallen.jpg

 

I use this image to give me idea for my own Fallen Angels unit

 

For my own Fallen Angels I added to my Iron Warriors (Chosen, basicly to add 250pts to bring my army up to 2000pts for a local tournament, games being 1500pts, 1750pts next round & then 2000pts), I just use the bog standard shoulder pads from the Plastic Dark Angels robe bodies, you can check them out by here, Jervies seem to like my Fallen Angels conversion when he was checking out my IW force during UKGT in 2008.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...=171657&hl=

 

Iron Warriors should be make a return to the fourms in July for the Throne of Skulls GT in Oct, to mark ten year's of collecting in the 14 years I've been in the hobby.

 

Hope this helps

 

IP

[Hyaenidae]

That actually looks lush. It's a lot lighter than the golds and greens in the IA article, but I think part of that is camera flash - and it looks pretty great, anyway. I may give that a go.

Yeah, sorry about that. My energy-saver bulbs in my lamp are great for painting, but utterly unforgiving when it comes to taking pictures. Promise, the gold and tarnish is a bit darker than in the picture.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

This is a surprisingly tough deal, and one I'd not expected to dwell on. I think I'll be delaying the Daemon Prince's inclusion in the army until about 2,000 points. That way, I can work on the guys I know how to build and paint, without killing myself worrying over the head honcho's helmet. Really, the daemon faces are a model-killer for me. It has to be a helm, preferably one as Chaos Mariney as possible.

 

Any which way you slice it, unless you maybe use a Chaos Dread head from the FW line, there's not an easy fix to the helmet problem because of the scale. The Defiler masks fit all the Prince heads except for the one with the elf ears and tall horns from the new kit. If you shave off of the horns from the plastic grimace Prince head and graft the "assassin" Defiler mask to the face, you could conceivably build a helmet around the rest of the head using green stuff. Likewise, given that you're delaying Prince inclusion into your army until later, you can find someone who will do it for the fun of it. :D

 

Also, shouldn't a certain infamous Gaunt's Ghosts novel have taught you that helmet-less CSMs die to everything, up to and including swamp dwellers with moth-venom darts? :ph34r:

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Also, shouldn't a certain infamous Gaunt's Ghosts novel have taught you that helmet-less CSMs die to everything, up to and including swamp dwellers with moth-venom darts? :D

 

Funnily, I just read that one again. Go scary Ewok equivalents!

[Noctus Cornix]

Always fun to help a fellow gamer out, even if he is what I hope to aspire to some day B) (a writer, not a coward)

 

Storyline- It seems decent enough, not exactly the most in depth campaign, but they are made to be open to progression so depth isn’t much of an issue. My only question is why would the chaos marines pick this sector specifically? To be frank, the whole ‘we invade because we’re chaos’ bit is far too overdone and rather shallow in my opinion. However the pitch over all gives a nice setting.

 

Painting- I actually would support the idea of the black with green trim. Gave it a quick test drive in the army painter and it looks pretty nice, especially if you add a green eye of horus in the shoulder pads. My issue is that this doesn’t seem like something the Black Legion would do. Wasn’t the whole point of the change to black legion was to completely shun away the shame of the past? Seems that it would be too much of a reminder for them.

 

Squad Leaders- I always like individualized, mutated leaders. It gives them a sense of uniqueness and character as opposed to the ‘rawr I have a power sword’ champion crap. Just don’t go over board.

 

Fallen- Go for it man.

 

Chosen- To make them stand out against their fellow legionaries, I would suggest your follow the advice of others about the whole wolf pelts ideas. However I would also like to add in my own point. Back in late 3rd edition, a picture of a black legion warband showed a squad of chosen, each member having a completely gold helmet. Why not go with that? Wolf pelts, skulls, mutations, and golden helmets? How could they not look unique?

 

Wife- Its good to hear your fiance is immersing herself in the hobby, a great way to help build up the list of common interests. A loyalist you say?.... So a staunch loyalist and a filthy heretic are going to get married, oh those will be some fine mutated Soul Drinker babies you'll make. :)

 

Hope this helps

 

My two copper skulls.

[malika666]

You already touched into this, but the Black Legion has some real problems with possession. I guess that the forces of the third commander cover that (units of possessed and all). However, the stuff of the first commander could also include possessed, perhaps simply as a modelling thing rather than units of possessed. Some visible mutations here and there, but not as crazy as the normal possessed models.

 

I guess that the bulk of the first commander's force would consist of relatively new recruits, as in post heresy figures, either absorbed from other Legions/Chapters, or newly created Black Legionaries. I remember some old piece of color text revolving this. Something on how those living in the Eye of Terror would fight each other forever, with the survivors being turned into new Chaos Space Marines.

 

This might explain why many of the Black Legion have totally different sounding names than the original Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus. It would by the way be pretty cool to include some sort of background info for all your units and characters.