A D-B Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 A few people have PM'd me about this (some of them in regards to helping out) which is dead cool, and I'll reply soon. I'm currently still processing stuff and organising the first 1,000-point army list in my head. It looks like I'll be starting with the traditionalist faction first, largely loading up on Undivided and Khornate units. Some notes, as I make my initial progress: Helmet Horns: I'm really not sure I can paint these realistically. The ones I've seen in White Dwarf and on CMoN are so freaking intimidating. Bear in mind, I literally can't paint by subtly layering with a wet brush and 800 mixed shades, as I suck. This may yet be solved by dipping, of course... The First Squad: The first squad is just about made: a traditional Chaos Marine Squad, with just the icon bearer and champion to go. I already know I'm going to suffer with a lack of anti-tank unless I'm careful, but I'll hold off on making any Armourcracker squads just yet, and go with some more basic anti-infantry units. 10-man squad: 2 flamers; Icon of Chaos Glory; Aspiring Champion with a power fist and a combi-flamer; Rhino w/ extra armour and a Havoc launcher. That adds up to a manageable 285 points. 10-man squad: 2 plasma guns; Icon of Chaos Glory; Aspiring Champion with a power fist and a combi-plasma; Rhino w/ extra armour and a Havoc launcher. That adds up to a rather bloated (but totally sexy-looking) 305 points. I'd quite like the extra armour from Forge World, as it makes Rhinos look nicely chunky. All depends on the finances, though. That'd be a bit of a luxury. I definitely want the Black Legion doors and frontpiece, though. Twin-linked Bolters/Weapons: These are options for Aspiring Champions, and maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not seeing any of them on the Troops sprues. The closest I've come is the one on the tank sprue, or the Chaos Terminator sprue. --- --- --- I've also just about finished the first squad's background lore, but don't want to post it until I'm certain I can model the Aspiring Champion the right way. More updates soon, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2683631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm very excited to see what you can produce good sir. Your ideas sound very interesting and I love when players invest that extra amount of background for their army, a man after my own heart ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2683656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Horns are simple to paint: one layer of Bleached Bone, wash with Devlan Mud. The problem is that if you have a ton of horns, that gets really boring to paint, so I've taken to changing up the shade using Vallejo's Aged Bone, Kommando Khaki, Scorched Brown, Snakebite Leather, various shades of metallics, etc. just to have differentiation in colors. Makes for easy squad recognition, too, but it's not set in stone: if you want KISS-simple, just stick to Bleached Bone and the DevMud wash and you're going to have a lot of guys with badass horns. T/l bolters only come from where you described, on the Terminator sprues, and on various places online that make their own products to cover down on the gaps. GW's production sorcerers made certain to distribute special things in few and far-between places to ensure we either spend more to get what we want, or sweat bullets to make it ourselves. Bitz barns and swap meets are caches of gold if you're getting freakier with your unit loadouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2683660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Helmet Horns: I'm really not sure I can paint these realistically. The ones I've seen in White Dwarf and on CMoN are so freaking intimidating. Bear in mind, I literally can't paint by subtly layering with a wet brush and 800 mixed shades, as I suck. This may yet be solved by dipping, of course... Khestra the Unbeheld shown a great exsample of painting horns. There also Dheneb Stone with Badab Black or Devlin mud or Ogryn Flesh. Then some dry brush lighty of Bleachbone & then skull white. Or fail that, rememeber they do not have to be a bone colour. Lot of the old School horn from 2nd ed era where also red for exsample?? I was going to suggest Black & then gloss varnish, but would not be great on a Black Legion force :lol: for contrast & try to make parts of the models stand out. Just rememeber as long as your happy with the model in the end. I'd quite like the extra armour from Forge World, as it makes Rhinos look nicely chunky. All depends on the finances, though. That'd be a bit of a luxury. I definitely want the Black Legion doors and frontpiece, though. Make sure the varnish the resin before painting. Just this help the paint key in & stop any flacking paint off. Not sure how you are with Plasticard?? But could alway make some of the Icons from that. In my Iron Warriors topic I posted a few post back, all the extra armour & Icon on my Rhinos & the object marker (wounded Iron Warrior hold the Grand Company banner) are made from Plasticard as my abilty to sculpt not the greatess. Great stuff plasticard is, happy to get three year worth of supply from my old NQ to HND model making course, also sort of why advice people to varnish FW model to help key in undercaot & paint due to stuff taugh during the college course. IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2683940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Helmet Horns: I'm really not sure I can paint these realistically. The ones I've seen in White Dwarf and on CMoN are so freaking intimidating. Bear in mind, I literally can't paint by subtly layering with a wet brush and 800 mixed shades, as I suck. This may yet be solved by dipping, of course... Or fail that, rememeber they do not have to be a bone colour. Lot of the old School horn from 2nd ed era where also red for exsample?? 2nd edition painting is an era that should preferably not be spoken about unless of course one really likes the garishness of the 'Dread Red' era. But yeah, don't have to be bone :devil:. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 So, I've been working on my army list. The idea is to build the first 1,000 points from the traditionalist Undivided/Khorne faction, under the former Sons of Horus commander, and the second 1,000 points from the sorcerer's faction. I've got no idea where to spend the last chunk of points, though. Any advice is welcome. With that in mind, here's what I've been musing over so far: The Aphotican Oath - 868 points. Chaos Lord - 140 Terminator armour; Mark of Khorne; lightning claws. 8 Khorne Berserkers - 198 Plasma pistols x2. 10 Chaos Space Marines - 295 Aspiring Champion; power fist; Icon of Chaos Glory; plasma guns x2. Rhino; extra armour; havoc launcher. Chaos Land Raider - 235 Extra armour. The Lord rides with the Berserkers in the Land Raider, while the Chaos Marines have their own Rhino. --- --- --- That leaves one of the following choices: 5 Chosen Chaos Space Marines - 130 Lightning claws; flamers x4. -- Probably my favourite choice, given the modelling options, and getting to field a cool infiltrating squad with a badass claw-leader, with 4 incinerating chums. Chaos Vindicator - 130 Twin-linked bolter. -- Already painting two tanks... But at least this one would look rad. Chaos Predator - 130 Extra armour; havoc launcher; heavy bolter sponsons. -- See Vindy. Is this many tanks going to be unfair to the other guys? That may sound like a crazy question, but I was a WHF (and Necromunda/Gorkamorka) player for years, so my 40K tabletop experience is pretty limited since 2nd and 3rd editions. 3 Chaos Bikers - 119 Meltaguns x2. -- Could use some anti-tank stuff, I guess. Models are killer, too. Would rather paint these than another bloody tank. Chaos Dreadnought - 115 Extra armour; additional Dreadnought CCW. -- Because of this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-4000...READNOUGHT.html Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 A champion with a powerfist in your Berzerkers wouldnt go amiss. Or a champ with melta bombs at the very least. Perhaps even giving the Lord a set of bombs as well. List is a little light on high strength weaponry perhaps considering the raider means to deliver the zerks and Lord. Id pick Chosen but adding flamers might not be the best option considering their low strength and low armour penetration and what you have already got. But maybe if you manage to force enough saves. Also while Chosen are coolness personified they arent any harder to kill than a normal Marine and will probably be focused and destroyed before the rest of your force arrives. A Rhino would have been ideal. But it looks like a fun list to use as long as the opponents dont bring the wrong stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Definitely put some points into a Skull Champ with a power fist for those Berserkers; he can back the Lord up with power attacks and pull double duty as antitank as well, and unlike the Lord he can't be singled out specifically in combat. Of your options above, I'd go with the Chosen because of Infiltrate, but long-range firepower is where you're seriously hurting and flamers aren't helping. Right now, your army has a threat radius of about 12" with 85% of its makeup, it's very close combat-oriented and full of anti-infantry goodness but will cry if anything with an AV greater than 10 comes at it, and Chaos has very few reliable delivery options to get stuff within strike range before getting shot to pieces. That being said, if you're not inclined to run Obliterators, go with a Predator with an autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons. It's not a perfect solution, but it's cheaper than a bunch of las/ML Havocs or having to rely on melta Bikers. Best case scenario, the enemy will concentrate on trying to kill the Predator and leave your Rhino and LR alone long enough to deliver the goods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Twin-linked Bolters/Weapons: These are options for Aspiring Champions, and maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not seeing any of them on the Troops sprues. The closest I've come is the one on the tank sprue, or the Chaos Terminator sprue. If you will model them on your troops, how about putting two on top of each other? Kind of a Chaosified version of the twin-linked Bolter of the Adeptus Custodes, according to Adrian Smith's artwork. I also found this pic. Food for thought! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan The Deamon Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 List looks like it'd be fun, a bit of fairness and fluffiness mixed in. As for your next choices i'd go with a dread. I may be the only person telling you that, but they are damn cool, and lately they've been mvp's in all my games. must resist plugging new dreadnaught :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I agree with Dan. Even though their bat *edit word* crazy I think chaos dreads are sweet and more interesting fluff wise then their Imperial counter parts, I mean c'mon most of the Legion dreads have been around since the Heresy! Edit by Insane Psychopath - Watch the launge as per our fourm rule - "do not use of alternate letters/numbers/asterisks/any other means" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2684990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Any updates soon? I really enjoyed reading through and seeing where you got the inspiration for names and ideas! Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2724041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Chosen: I have no idea how to make Chosen look distinct and interesting, beyond using the Dark Angel robed bodies. That option is sort of out the window if I use those minis for my Fallen Squad, but I still dig the idea of a Chosen squad with 4 or 5 flamers, unleashing delicious torrents of liquid fire. Aaah, the conundrum that has vexed Chaos players for, ooh, about 9 years :) I pondered with giving mine extra parchment/flayed skin acoutrements, like this fellow; but I decided a more interesting look, in terms of background potential, would be to achieve a more 'daemonic' look, without going full posessed. So i mixed in some parts from the Possessed kit. I call my chosen 'The Annointed', the idea being they have the blood of a daemon in their veins, and they on their way to becoming more than a normal Marine. They look like, for example, these, this chap,, and the second guy on the left in this picture. In game terms, I run them as Chosen with Mark of Slaanesh. I think it depends upon your army's background as to what route you eventually choose; whether it's using DA robed torsoes, more loyalist components, or something else. But I hope the idea of mixing in some of the possessed parts offers something to work from :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2724538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Chosen: I have no idea how to make Chosen look distinct and interesting, beyond using the Dark Angel robed bodies. That option is sort of out the window if I use those minis for my Fallen Squad, but I still dig the idea of a Chosen squad with 4 or 5 flamers, unleashing delicious torrents of liquid fire.Save the robed bodies for your Fallen, it fits those guys better imho. For your chosen, a few ideas could be: -focus on older armour marks -battle damage, both modelling-wise and paint-wise. -trophies/kill markings -dynamic/themed poses, if you can convey that these guys are the elite, the best of the best somehow, then your mission is complete. -truescale them, here is a shelved idea for one of my Chosen: (you may recognize the early backpack design) My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2725372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 @Firestorm I love the smooth look those possessed bits add to your models... they're there, but in a subtle way as to not take anything away from the model as a whole. Awesome job individualizing them and making them unique. @Nihm It's been bugging me for an hour, and I feel ashamed... what head is that on your chosen? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2726287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall_Brant Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 @Nihm It's been bugging me for an hour, and I feel ashamed... what head is that on your chosen? I'd hazard a guess that it's from the mutation set from the old 8 man Chaos Marine box. I think he also filed off the horn that was popping out of his head too. As for horns: I hate blending, I layer. Try this out. On a ribbed horn helmet base Bestial brown, three ribs up snake bite, three up Kommando Khaki, three up bleached bone, three up skull white. If need be highlight any of the previous ribs with a lighter color. Wash wic either, G Sepia, D Mud, or Ogryn flesh. BOOM you got yourself a horned helmet! As for smooth horns, nope I got nothing. Now black armor, as I mentioned I hate blending. So for a cool looking black: highlight with Necron Abyss, HL that wic Shadow gray, and extreme HL wic Space Wolf gray. Warm black: Adeptus Battle Gray, HL wic Codex gray, keep to the hard edges wic Fortress, and extreme wic Skull. Green or red I haven't tried yet, but possibly in the same vane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2727825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 @Nihm It's been bugging me for an hour, and I feel ashamed... what head is that on your chosen? I'd hazard a guess that it's from the mutation set from the old 8 man Chaos Marine box. I think he also filed off the horn that was popping out of his head too. Yes it is and yes I did! :) Here's another one of those heads: While the latter head doesn't really fit (he looks too brawny somehow), the size of the first head and some of the other ones from that sprue fit really well on a truescaled marine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2728253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Sweet Jesus, it's hard to believe I started this in February. So here's the deal. I realised that me putting it on Chaos Ascendant was pretty stupid, given that it now looks like I've got a project log in the main Chaos forum, rather than in Works in Progress like everyone else. (Didn't we used to have blogs? I liked those. Maybe I'm just blind and they're still really there.) Either way, my bad. However, instead of asking the mods to move the thread, I'll let this fade out properly and restart the new one in WiP. This is partly because I clogged this one with indecision and silly questions, and partly because, uh, I accidentally changed Legions. See, all this time, I'd been planning my Black Legion force with loving care, thinking they'd look great and all would be well. But my test minis weren't exactly brilliant, and I lost a lot of enthusiasm. In my bitz box, I had some Night Lords shoulder pads, and a few Word Bearer ones amongst all the bolter sights and purity seals. So, on a whim, I snapped off one guy's arm, gave him a new one, and turned him into a half-undercoated Word Bearer. Some Mechrite Red, some Quickshade, and two days later, and... and I really, really liked that freaking Word Bearer. Luckily, a lot of my army fluff will still make sense, and I enjoy changing stuff around anyway. But I'm gonna rework the Aphotican Oath to be a Word Bearer warband, with their requisite allies, slaves and bound minions. I think Katie might be registering on the B&C too, and her (dark purple) Shadow Wolves will probably make guest appearances in my project log thread. So that's that. A fresh-ish start. Apologies for being extremely slow and boring. tl;dr -- I can't even get black minis right. For shame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2763101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 I should add that I absolutely loved all your advice, guys. It's been absolutely killer, and seeing as my "proper" project log will have just as many noobish questions, I hope to keep annoying you with queries throughout the whole process. EDIT: Sig updated accordingly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2763104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregon Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 If you have a friend with access to an airbrush, that's the best way by far to basecoat a vehicle fast and without any brush strokes. If the friend is good enough, even highlighting is possible with it. Have fun with the Word Bearers and remember that they do like their daemons.. (oh, and there are quite a few places, such as modelbits.co.uk and bitzbox.co.uk to buy loose bitz out there in case you want more than one defiler skull) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2763560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaz Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I must say I'm devastated you turned your back on the Black Legion, but I'm sure after i read Blood Reaver I'll be forced to forgive you ^_^ I'll be watching with much interest. For the Glory of Chaos! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2764258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I had a suspicion after watching your interview with the Overlords that you were having doubts about Black Legion, so this really doesn't come as a surprise to me, nor is it particularly astonishing that the sons of Lorgar wormed their way into your favor instead. It's imperative that you have a Dark Apostle, though, it just doesn't sit right without one. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2764354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Word Bearers. I hope you don't name your minis because otherwise we'll know if anyone from the TFH survived and it won't be long until novels are demanded about what XXX is doing now... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2764618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 All I can say is good man :-)! Lookng forward to seeing exactly where this goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2764677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Word Bearers. I hope you don't name your minis because otherwise we'll know if anyone from the TFH survived and it won't be long until novels are demanded about what XXX is doing now... ;) We're safe on that score, I tend not to put "my guys" in anything I write. I absolutely loathe that occasional accusation of favouritism ("He plays X, so X always win in his books!") so much that I avoid it as often as possible. I know you were kidding, natch; I'm just sayin'. I may make a notable exception (in 40K, not the HH series) in the future, but it would involve "my guys" dying in droves, if I ever did it. They most certainly wouldn't be on the winning side. I had a suspicion after watching your interview with the Overlords that you were having doubts about Black Legion, so this really doesn't come as a surprise to me, nor is it particularly astonishing that the sons of Lorgar wormed their way into your favor instead. It's imperative that you have a Dark Apostle, though, it just doesn't sit right without one. :D One of the feuding leaders is likely to be an Apostle, yeah. I have a lot of ideas about this one, and despite my love for the Black Legion, I think this may even work out better. I must say I'm devastated you turned your back on the Black Legion, but I'm sure after i read Blood Reaver I'll be forced to forgive you ;) I'll be watching with much interest. For the Glory of Chaos! My affection for the Blackies is undiminished, so I'll hopefully just to play with them in novel form at some point instead. Hope you like Blood Reaver, by the by. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/222610-black-legion-warband-the-aphotican-oath/page/3/#findComment-2765254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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