Vanguard Veterans loadout

[Gv0zD]

I don't believe a squad with so many veritable combinations has "the perfect" price-to- performance ratio. I do believe however what up grades you give them should come after your army is built as they are not your whole army.

 

True. But we can still try to maximize their utility ;)

It is indeed difficult to choose how to equip VV, as at first I was overwhelmed with all possible options.

During this discussion I've came closer to what I want from my VV, and I just commented on your loadout, from my point of view.

 

BTW, do you feel that we should add this thread to BA Resource project? It helped me (and I hope to hear more opinions on VV loadout and composition ;) ), so maybe it will contribute to others :mellow:

[WarpWalker]

Gvozd- Your entitled to your own opinion and that's cool. My feelings are not hurt by the way. I'm all for a better way of doing things. I would like to suggest my favorite VV build. And if no 1 likes it that's cool to, it just works for me. I have the flexibility to destroy tanks( a landraider and a D3 pie plate throwing Imperial guard tank so far), lockup MCs, and destroy long fangs. What fun! :)

 

Sgt-jp, LC & SS

Vet-jp, TH & SS

Vet-jp, LC & SS

Vet-jp, MBs

Vet-jp, MBs

 

By the way I do believe this is helped me in seeing how much VV lists have changed since the last time this was discussed here on this forum.

 

Black Orange- If your sargent is receiving "the blessing" 1/3rd of the time why not make him the LC & SS Guy instead of the PF & SS? He doesn't benefit from the increased initiative. If it's just to keep a strength 8 model around long enough to strike I understand. But if it's for another reason I can't see it.

[BrotherMoses]

Veteran Assault Squads are there to assist your battle brothers in desperate need of reinforcement. As such, I would send them ready for such. Let me see:

 

5 man squad

2x power weapons

1x thunder hammer

power weapon sargeant

 

This is 225 points. Its an expensive squad. In jump packs you're paying 30 points per marine. If you're going to take something out, I would take out the thunder hammer. Either completely or for more power weapons. Its a 5 man squad so fists and hammers probably won't survive to strike back. This squad will best be served deep striking near an honor guard for the banner and priest buff. Atleast get it near a priest.

[WarpWalker]

BrotherMoses- If all you need is a veteran assault squad then use the honor guard as you said or Sanguinary guard. They all have pws, better armor and cheaper. But the discussion of this thread I believe is using vanguard for their HI special rules. They wouldn't really function as a reinforcement but more like a prelude to the major butt-kicking the enemy is going to get. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

3 WS5 S8 base attacks - yes I will take those !

 

G :)

[Leksington]

I recommend magnetizing the whole lot. This is the last squad in all my army builds I put points into. After the army list is built I average about 250pts on this squad. If I have left over points I know where to add them.

 

Sgt-jp, lightning claw & ss

Vet-jp, thunder hammer & ss

Vet-jp, bp & pw

Vet-jp, bp & ccw

Vet-jp, bp & ccw

 

Personally I don't like that the guys with the SS who are going to take the heavy shots are also the guys with the weapon upgrades....

I think it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

6:

If the unit you charged has 1 power weapon, then you probably wanted the invul save on someone who didn't have a nice weapon. This is a fairly common scenario.

A couple of AP3 or better shots, you probably wanted the SS on your cheaper guys. (howwever taking AP3 or better shots shouldn't be your most common source of wounds for your VV)

 

Half dozen:

If you charge a unit with no power weapons, it was better to have the SS on your LCs, PFs, GEs, THs, so you didn't lose the attacks.

If you get charged by a powerful CC unit with lots of PWs, then you wanted the invul saves on your expensive weapons as there was a good chance you might acrue 5 or more wounds.

[Gv0zD]

But the discussion of this thread I believe is using vanguard for their HI special rules. They wouldn't really function as a reinforcement but more like a prelude to the major butt-kicking the enemy is going to get. :lol:

That's right. Sorry if I didn't emphasize it in my OP.

But at the same time I want them not only as a prelude, but as butt-kickers themselves.

[marine77]

I personally like giving every model a different load out as it helps me to allocate wounds in a more favorable manner. I always take at least 1 stormshield to soak power weapon or high AP wounds. The rest take a mixture of items including lightning claws, power fists, power weapons, and even ccw/melta bomb loadouts.

 

I have been taking two units in my Sanguinary Guard army and they usually chew up a unit really badly, but don't get rid of them until the following turn. This then provides protection from enemy shooting. In subsequent turns, they wipe out the squad and move on to the next squad. This has really been optimal.

[Gv0zD]

Recently I came up with the following loadout: 10 men, Glaive, TH, 2xLC, 2xPW. They are split into following squads: (1) Glaive, PW, LC, CCW, CCW; (2) LC, PW, TH, CCW, CCW. No points left for meltabombs and stormshields, as everything is pretty tight in the list they belong to.

[Deschenus Maximus]

How about:

 

-GE + SS

-TH + SS

-LC + SS

-PW + BP

-CCW + BP

 

285 pts. Expensive, but not prohibitive.

[Gv0zD]

Very expensive ;)

I pay 405 for 10 men (two combat squads), while your 5 men cost 285.

While SS are good I have to remove more than one PW to take a shield, or I should stick to 5 men squad. Tough choice :)

[Drachnon]

I haven't been able to field VV's yet but the load out I was thining of was:

Sergeant, JP, PW, BP

Veteran, JP, TH, bp

Veteran, JP, lightning claw, bp

Veteran, JP, SS, bp

Veteran, JP, ccw, bp

225 points if I remember correctly. If I'd want to field 10 I would probably add 5 with the same weapons.

[Gv0zD]

.......

Veteran, JP, lightning claw, bp

Veteran, JP, SS, bp

.....

Wouldn't it be better to give SS to the guy with LC? SS with pistol is something I've never seen before? I assume the pistol counts as CCW?

[WarpWalker]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but Drachnon using the SS&BP marine to shield the more important vets w/power weapons. If he successfully blocks a powerful hit great! If not then all that is lost us a marine with one bolt shot. The shield replaces 1 weapon and it makes better sense to keep the pistol than a chainsword.

[marine77]

That is exactly right. You retain the bolt pistol so that the model has the option to shoot before an assault. If you just do SS and CCW he can't. The pistol still counts as a combat weapon and since he has the storm shield won't be getting an additional weapon attack anyway.

[Demoulius]

wow...thats brilliant :P

[marine77]

It certainly helps the squad out. It allows wound allocation to be more advantageous and it allows each model to have only one special weapon meaning if you guy dies, you don't lose two weapons.

[Debauchery101]

i just started getting warmed up to VV units and this is what i use that is also in conjunction with a libby leading a HG. the main role of the Hg and libby is more utilitarian. i chose to field such a large unit of VV due to the fact that i can get still take 2 flanking Baals . i also run a 10 man assault squad and 4 small assault sqauds in razorbacks as my main wedge i use to either hold up or push hard if my jump units can make a good opening. the only issue i have is the fact that the VVs use of 20% of my points. though in 3 games they have easily killed more than their cost. i may just try to skimp and just take a 2 hammers and some Melta bombs only on 10 men. that way i could trade in 1 small unit and razorback and take a second 10 man assault squad.

 

Libby

jp, lance or might, shield

 

Honor guard

jump packs, 2x plasma, hammer, PW

 

VVx10

combat squad 1

sgt wl twin lc, hammer, 2 storm shield, 2 mb

 

combat squad 2

LC, hammer, 2 storm shield, 2 mb

[Gv0zD]

The pistol still counts as a combat weapon and since he has the storm shield won't be getting an additional weapon attack anyway.

I though it would be so.

 

Sounds pretty useful. Maybe give this guy a special weapon, like infernus or hand flamer, depending on expected enemy. It would add some hitting power to vanguard. But on the other hand, they won't shoot on their arrival... Anyway, I really like the idea of pistol&shield.

[Drachnon]

The pistol still counts as a combat weapon and since he has the storm shield won't be getting an additional weapon attack anyway.

I though it would be so.

 

Sounds pretty useful. Maybe give this guy a special weapon, like infernus or hand flamer, depending on expected enemy. It would add some hitting power to vanguard. But on the other hand, they won't shoot on their arrival... Anyway, I really like the idea of pistol&shield.

 

I don't add a special weapon to the VV with shield for two reasons.

One is point cost, I always try to avoid spending points on things I don't think I really need. I'd only add an inferno pistol if I wanted to open up transports before charging the contents and since they can't fire first turn plus since they won't be arriving turn one there's a good chance that everyone disembarked anyway. A hand flamer is good against big hordes but I would prefer to use my VV against more elite units where their power weapons give them more of an edge, so if the situation arises that the hand flamer would be useful I'd already be using my VV in the wrong way.

Second is that the stormshield bearer is effectively an expendable model, he's meant to be the first where low AP hits are assigned with SS he's a 45 point model no point increasing that to 55 or 60 if it's the first model to die. If I did feel like adding another weapon I'd add it to one of he less expendable models.

[Gv0zD]

Yeah, good points. If anything, plasma pistol would be good, if it wasn't overrheating. And SS itself costs 20 pts, which is already much.

Thanks for this idea, I feel like I need to try it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The pistol still counts as a combat weapon and since he has the storm shield won't be getting an additional weapon attack anyway.

I though it would be so.

 

Sounds pretty useful. Maybe give this guy a special weapon, like infernus or hand flamer, depending on expected enemy. It would add some hitting power to vanguard. But on the other hand, they won't shoot on their arrival... Anyway, I really like the idea of pistol&shield.

 

I don't add a special weapon to the VV with shield for two reasons.

One is point cost, I always try to avoid spending points on things I don't think I really need. I'd only add an inferno pistol if I wanted to open up transports before charging the contents and since they can't fire first turn plus since they won't be arriving turn one there's a good chance that everyone disembarked anyway. A hand flamer is good against big hordes but I would prefer to use my VV against more elite units where their power weapons give them more of an edge, so if the situation arises that the hand flamer would be useful I'd already be using my VV in the wrong way.

Second is that the stormshield bearer is effectively an expendable model, he's meant to be the first where low AP hits are assigned with SS he's a 45 point model no point increasing that to 55 or 60 if it's the first model to die. If I did feel like adding another weapon I'd add it to one of he less expendable models.

 

Just seems like a complete waste of a SS to me... they are expensive even without any upgrades so I always roll my eyes when I see people paying the points for a squad then gimping them to save 15-20 points... just does not make any sense to me whatsoever. I would much rather have a veteran armed with a power sword or thunderhammer than only a SS... this is a purely offensive unit... they are not meant to last that long. A SS by itself adds nothing in my opinion.

 

G :)

[d503]

I don't like vanguard vets. The cost appauls me. My philosophy is more along the lines of the guardsman's way of reaching an unreachable opponent - rather than deepstriking 20% of your army as a 5-man squad, just fire basilisks at it until it dies.

[JamesI]

I don't like vanguard vets. The cost appauls me. My philosophy is more along the lines of the guardsman's way of reaching an unreachable opponent - rather than deepstriking 20% of your army as a 5-man squad, just fire basilisks at it until it dies.

Please keep your advise Blood Angels related. I don't think firing Basilisks is much help for our discussion.

[Gv0zD]

@ Black Orange:

 

That was sentiment as well. They have to attack and most of the time they are in close combat. But seeing maany people using ss made me think "maybe it's worth it?". Tbh, I have little experience with ss, neither with vv nor with assault termies (I don't use them much). The one thing that prevents me from taking ss is their cost. I run vv worth 400+ pts in 1,5k, and I don't want to drop their weapons. Additional 20 pts would be too much, but I think that I'll reshape my vv and test ss a bit more.