Stoneburners - Chapter Champion (Dueling Master) WiP Model

[Bryan Blaire]

So, finally started to work on some new stuff after some serious dragging of my feet due to having used some black base coat + primer spray paint mix that left a ton of bubbled paint obscuring detail on my bikes. Got the bikes somewhat stripped back, but been irritated at them so I went back to some of my Deathwing analog:

Painted over the glossy black basecoat with a matte black and attempted some very dark grey edge highlights with a starker bright highlight. This is my first attempt ever (yes, in over 15 years of painting 40K stuff) at doing this, so I really would like some feedback on what you guys think. I liked the idea of adding some battle damage with some boltgun, just haven't been brave enough for it yet.

Holy crap, someone stole my arms!

:) There they are! Someone ripped them off and stuck these sticky metal things in them! And my pauldrons too!

(This was my first attempt at magnetizing, got 5 of them done, and so far, I think they are all working pretty awesomely!)

Take him to Cell 42, this Chaos Spawn sprouted extra arms! Repent, Fallen!

(One of the funny things to come from doing the magnets for arms and pauldrons)

More pics in the album, just darker shots of the main body: Album Link

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nice use of magnets Bryan,

 

In my humble opinion you can't go wrong with a nice light highlight when working with black, I use fortress grey and also add chainmail damage.

Black will look 'flat' if you don't add some contrast, it seemed too much when I first started but once a model is finished it looks great.

I've seem a couple of other peoples black models that have also been very very lightly drybrushed with a highlight colour too, they look great, maybe you could try that too.

 

BTW, Your army scheme looks cool, can't wait to see more.

 

s

[Bryan Blaire]

So, you think starker, brighter edge highlighting?

[Interrogator Stobz]

It's a bit hard to tell form your pics but yep, I'd say so.

Look at Bevulf's ravenwing for a great example, if I were you I'd just add a fine line to the very edges of your current scheme to make it pop a little more.

 

I always concider that when on a table top and being looked at from a distance more is in fact more :tu: Under your keen gaze from up close you can see how the natural light falls but at 28mm scale the highlights need to be much more pronounced to be noticed from a normal observation point of view.

 

When I was an art student (20 yrs ago) I learnt that if you scale down then highlights should be inversely proportionate or something like that (it's been a long time so I forget the jargon :lol: )

 

Again hard to tell with black, you will no doubt make them work :ph34r:

 

s

[Captain Semper]

Your work with white (or is it bone - not clear from the pics) is very nice. I especially like the landspeeder - the helmet of the gunner is so cool! B) . I also like very much the color-coding of your veterans - it's nicely thought and executed! The twins you say they do nothing? I disagree: they look cool! and this counts for a lot! Multi limbed terminator :) :lol: :lol: He looks like a tyranid hybrid :lol: (oh! the heresy!)

 

Only comment (and this is completely personal taste so may disregard it altogether): The white "shoes" on the Terminators. Sorry but I liked the dark version better...

[Bryan Blaire]

Stobz, thank you for the vote of confidence, I'll probably be trying a little work on it tonight, so I'll try and post something of my results.

 

Captain Semper, thanks! Yeah, it is bone, I need to take shots that aren't as bright so it doesn't wash out so much. I'm actually not totally sold on the divided Deathwing Veteran helmet or the Terminator "shoes" (because they look more and more like them the longer I look at it). I'm considering two possibilities: make the Termi greaves (but not the knees, if present) bone, or just have the feet black as well. I'm going to do a Painter image of both and see which I like better.

[Brother Kovash]

Glad to see you're back to work Bryan, love the color scheme. I hope you plan on doing another dreadnought or two in the future, I know you would do some great work with them. Maybe a venerable dreadnought?

[Bryan Blaire]

Thanks Brother Kovash! I do actually have two Dreads sitting in boxes in the "To Be Painted" cabinet, one normal, one venerable. I am now having lots of magnet fun, so I'm going to see what I can do with that on those also. The venerable dread will use the Deathwalker paint scheme.

Okay, so last night I mocked up some Painter pics, got home too late to actually work on any painting. They are supposed to be somewhat like the Chaplain in that they are a "visage of death" though honestly, I'm not really sure which one I want to go with.

Chosen:

[Brother Kovash]

I'd say go with #2. Since you're not doing the bone color trim on the shoulders and the hands/forearms, they should look different enough from each other. The bone colored boots lend themselves to the idea of your First Company being "Deathwalkers".

[Captain Semper]

Obviously the current choices are too similar to your Boneseekers. So what? Until recently in Imperial history, DAs DW and RW shared the exact same colour, both being black. So do the same. Keep the 1st and the 2nd in the exact same colour. Go for Alternate 3 and paint the hands white too! What do you think? Too radical?

 

Let's face it, no one will mistake a Terminator to a biker no matter how similar the colour patterns is :P.

 

Just a question: Are all your Command squads supposed to be Deathwalkers "returning" to the Companies? Or is it possible to have Command squads drawn from the ranks of a Company? If the former is the case, I suggest you paint all command squads with the Deathwalker pattern. No green for these boys! They earned the right not to wear it :)

[Bryan Blaire]

I've decided that I'm going to be sticking with the full black feet and legs due to the bone icons on the legs. I think it will also make a better set up if I decide to do any free-hand army symbols, engagement icons, etc.

Okay, so I've been working on some starker highlights and some battle damage. I attempted to do some 3D effects on the battle damage:

Daylight:

Direct lamp light:

I think this is as much highlighting and damaging as I'm going to be doing, need to work on the bone and arms. Comments, suggestions?

[Captain Semper]

Battle damage looks good! Not too much as to make it "been to Hell and back ten times over" but realistic. Truth is Marine armour (of any kind) is ususally well maitained. So unless you have a theme that your force has been battling on its own for for like a century, the Techmarines would have maintained the armour after every engagement. So yes I like what you've done - measured damage. They are Terminators after all :rolleyes:.

 

Edit: are you going for bone colored arms? I'm not sure I understood your last comment there (I'm all for it btw!). And as for highlighting I found using Badab Black to tone down the sharpness of grey works well.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Looking good Bryan, they are really going to pop once you've done the crux and other bling, your bone on other models is excellent too, whereever you choose to put it, it will look great.

 

s

[Bryan Blaire]

Nah, no bone arms, just the icons, Aquila and supports, plus the head. I'm considering getting some Undead from the fantasy line and possibly doing small bone icons (fingers, maybe a long bone here or there, etc) hanging from the armor, similar to the feathers.

 

Thanks for the comments and support, I'll see what I can get done in the next couple days.

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, have the black highlighted now on the remaining 4 models, working on eyes and some battle damage tonight so that I can get the bone started working in. I'm going to start with a 1:1 Scorched Brown:Bestial Brown and work up from there to see if I can't make the bone a little darker.

I've finally come up with all my companies' badges (not sure how I will get those loaded) and what I think will be good identifiers for the squad types: single downward sword for Tactical, two crossed downward swords (like the GotC chapter icon) for Assault, and a single large upward sword flanked by a small downward sword on either side for the Devastator squads. The Command Squads will use the shoulder pads I denote as "Elite" style (the more ornate ones) and likely some personal heraldry mixed with the company badges for their own designators.

In the meantime, I've been working on some ideas on my color scheme, here's what I've come up with:

Battle Company Command ex-Deathwalkers (definitely the Company Master, likely some of the other Vets in the unit as well):

I'm planning on continuing the red stripe all the way down the "face" of the helmet to the "chin."

Boneseekers Company Command ex-Deathwalkers:


The Sergeants and Company Command of the Deathwalkers (1st Company - Terminators) will also have the red stripe, though I'm going to be using the Grey Knights helms for the Sergeants and Paladin helms for the Company Command, so I'm not sure if the stripe will continue all the way down past the "nose" or not on those helms. I'll probably have to try it out on this squad and see how it looks.

I'm using the red stripe for two reasons:
1. I'm using bone iconography on the helms (skulls, winged sword icons, etc), and so the bone helms on the vets just won't show those off well, so the red background that they should now fit in will help set them off.
2. It harkens back to the original red stripe on the black armor of the Dark Angels legion as well as tying them to the Consecrators (which is basically the old Legion armor colors).

However, now every time I say it, I hear a Jamaican guy hawking beer in my head...

[Captain Semper]

OK, I'm slightly lost on the iconography here... I've been confused by all the slight differences in painting patterns and the "mobility" between companies of the Veteran troopers.

 

I think you'll need a Codex of your own :huh:.

 

I suggest you catalogue your different patterns.

 

Battle Companies:

Normal marine:

Sergeant:

Vet. Sergeant:

Company Vets:

Command squads ("returning" Death Walkers?):

Company Master:

 

2nd Company - Boneseekers

Normal biker (or are they already some sort of veterans in your chapter?):

Sergeant:

Vet. Sergeant (if different):

Command squads ("returning" Death Walkers?):

Master of the 2nd:

 

1st Company - Deathwalkers

Normal Termie:

Sergeant:

Command squad:

Master of the 1st:

 

Keep in mind that the complexity is welcome (despite my confusion) as it makes it less accessible to outsiders. I like that!

 

Just another point: I really like the red stripe - especially if you make it cover all the front part of the helmet. But I'm a bit perplexed: The original color of the Legion was all black. The red stripe is a Consecrators unique feature. Indeed it is what differentiates them from the original Legion's colors. At least this is my understanding...

[Bryan Blaire]

I think you'll need a Codex of your own .

Heh, been working on one for a while now.

I suggest you catalogue your different patterns.

Here you go:

Battle Companies:

Normal marine:

Vet. Sergeant (can be a Deathwalker Candidate or a former Deathwalker):

or

Company Vets:

Command squads (majority will be former Deathwalkers, one or two may be Candidates that are about to be inducted into the 1st Company) & Company Master:

2nd Company - Boneseekers

Normal biker (generally considered "more" veteran):

Boneseekers Veterans (similar to the Company Veterans idea - I'm hoping there is a new 2nd Company Vets squad in a new Codex - and there is, these will be the Boneseeker Black Knights):

Boneseeker Vet. Sergeant (will all be Deathwalker Candidates or returning Deathwalkers):

or

Command squads (per Battle companies) & Master of the 2nd (this will probably be a little more unique than this in some way, but look very similar):

1st Company - Deathwalkers

Normal Termie:

Sergeant, Command Squad (will look the same, but with a red helm stripe)

Master of the 1st (trying to come up with something slightly more unique for him)

Keep in mind that the complexity is welcome (despite my confusion) as it makes it less accessible to outsiders. I like that!

Just another point: I really like the red stripe - especially if you make it cover all the front part of the helmet. But I'm a bit perplexed: The original color of the Legion was all black. The red stripe is a Consecrators unique feature. Indeed it is what differentiates them from the original Legion's colors. At least this is my understanding...

The stripe will definitely cover the entire front of the helmet, the way the bone stripe I've already painted on the Deathwalker Candidates does.

The original Legion color was all black. However, originally the troopers had a red stripe on their helms, with higher ranks having more convoluted striping from there, such as sergeants having thin yellow lines to either side of the red one as a border and master sergeants (I think that was the rank) had the same as sergeants, but the stripe was broken by broad horizontal black striping within the red stripe. The Consecrators are exactly the same as the original Legion troopers but with a different Chapter icon. It's a direct nod, IMO, to the demi-Legion nature of the Unforgiven.

[Captain Semper]

Yeap, you definately need a Codex: Stoneburners. Substitute "Chapter Tactics" with "Guess my rank" rule! Especially effective against Orks... :) :P :(

 

Aaaaanyway, now that you mentioned it i sort of vaguely remember the image of black armoured marines and red/yellow stripes in the helmet in some art piece (i.e. not on miniatures). Was it Corvus armour in this image? Can't recall... I think thought that this is retconned to all black. In any case can you please point me to this source? I can't for the life of me remember wher I've seen it!

[Bryan Blaire]

LOL! I think it will be a bit more clear when I get more painted. I personally just really like the heraldry and designator colors, etc.

 

Here are a couple of images I found:

DA Rogue Trader Img 1

 

DA Rogue Trader Img 2

 

Hope it is okay to post links to those two. So far as I know, those have never been ret-conned.

[Brother Kovash]

I love seeing those outdated Rogue Trader images with the over exaggerated features.

 

The battle company color scheme looks really good, simple yet striking. I think the vets should have a green helmet with the stripe, to differentiate between them and the sergeants.

[Bryan Blaire]

The reason that the company vets have the black helmet with the bone stripe is to show that they are Deathwalker Candidates. The Vet Sergeants can be either a Candidate (hence the black with bone) or a former Deathwalker (bone with red) that has returned to the battle company for whatever reason, so I want to keep that designator no matter what, rather than have a distinction between candidates acting as company vets versus candidates acting as sergeants. Plus it gives me some fluidity with my army to mix and match between sergeants and vets because none will likely have squad designations, but rather company heraldry or some such.

[Captain Semper]

I am really into your project. Apart from the painting scheme (and the full helmet stripes that I really like) I also like how you build on the idea of having two kinds of squad leaders: Veterans #1 (Candidates) and Veterans #2 (fully fledged Deathwalkers). This is unique to your chapter. However I think there are too many visual signifiers that lead to too many messages that can be confusing. As I said earlier, if it makes sense to you that’s great! Let other people trying to work out your Chapter’s internal structure – outsiders should be kept in the dark! Have you made any fluff relating to your Stoneburners?

 

However I have a few thoughts I’d like to share that will help streamline the appearance of your army. These are suggestions based on personal preferences so feel free to put them straight to the garbage bin ;)!

 

You are using too many signifiers to denote simple elevations in rank. For example, the Veteran Sergeant (the Deathwalker Candidate) has two differences from the normal trooper: helmet color (black vs. green for the normal troopers) AND the white stripe. Two differences in appearance lead to visually saying that this guy is two levels above the troopers where in fact he’s only one level (ok he is a Veteran AND a Sergeant but we only get this kind of Sergeants anyway – so the extra signifier is kind of repeating the same point, especially as you also get another kind of veterans, the Deathwalkers).

 

Using the exact same scheme for the “Company Veterans” makes sense as they are effectively from the same pool or warriors as the Veteran Sergeants. However, as they will be in a squad of their own it will be easier to visually accept a difference to the normal squads’ Veteran Sergeants. If you really want to do the black helmet/white stripe thing I’d say use it for the Company Veterans squads while keep the Veteran Sergeants with Green helmets and a white stripe. Or, better yet, use black helmets for your standard troopers. This will solve everything and place them visually more apart to Disciples (you have to admit the schemes are very close for standard marines)! As you can tell I am a big fan of your stripes :P.

 

With Deathwalkers it’s the same principle. You get differently painted armor (no greens), differently painted helmet (white) AND a red stripe. So there are three signifiers to denote that these guys are effectively one step up from the Deathwalker Candidates. But Deathwalkers need to be visually tied with your Terminators for which you chose a black/white theme with no greens. So where does the red stripe come into play? If you use the power armor version of the Terminator armor the red stripe is (unfortunately) superfluous. This can be solved by painting a red stripe to the Sergeant Terminator helmets - which will link them to UM practice of painting a white stripe on the red helmet – and it is an easy visual reference for anybody to see and easily understand.

 

If you want to have 1st Company troopers “returning” to other Battle Companies (a heretical notion that borders to Wolf Guard practices :P :P :)) I’d say keep them as Command Squads – in the fashion of “Honor Guard” with white helmets and then have the ones that lead squads like (super) sergeants with the red stripes.

 

Which brings me to Boneseekers. Keep them as is but make the normal bikers’ helmets single color – say black to tie it to the rest of the chapter (assuming that you adopted the black helmet for normal marines) and as a nod to the “parent” chapter’s Ravenwing. You also save the white helmet as a privilege for the Deathwalkers. Then sergeants (Deathwalker Candidates) will get a white stripe on the helmet while Deathwalkers returning will be Deathwalker colors and with a red stripe if they act as sergeants or no stripe for the Command squad.

 

So my take on the scheme would be:

 

Normal marines: As you have them but with black helmet.

Veteran Sergeants = Deathwalker Candidates: As normal marines with a white stripe on the helmet.

Company Veterans = Deathwalker Candidates: normal marines with a white stripe on the helmet (effectively you group some sergeants together to fight as one unit).

Command squad (“Honor Guard-ish”) = Deathwalkers: (see further below)

 

Boneseekers: As you have them but with totally black helmet.

Boneseekers Veteran Sergeants = Deathwalker Candidates: As normal bikers with a white stripe on the helmet.

Command squad (again kind of “Honor Guard-ish”) = Deathwalkers: (see below)

 

Deathwalkers (in TDA or PA): Black with white helmet

Deathwalker sergeants (in TDA or PA): Black with white helmet and red stripe. These guys in PA can lead other squads from other Battle Companies or the 2nd Company.

 

My two cents to keep everything consistent and simple. The main idea here is “stripe = sergeant” of some sort or another.

 

I also would like to thank you for the images from the RT era. I think I am well versed in the DA lore since I have read/seen almost everything since 2nd ed. and RT will always come back to haunt me! However I think although not retconned per se the thin red stripe has been silently dropped from the background (see Index Astartes article about DA) much like the chevrons that denoted sergeants. Obviously the Consecrators scheme is an insider nod to RT era… I’m just not sure that current background acknowledges the red stripe as part of the pre-Heresy livery.

 

Boy, was that long or what?

[Bryan Blaire]

Thanks for the comments and assistance guys! You'll see I did change some of the color scheme stuff up above.

 

I am really into your project. Apart from the painting scheme (and the full helmet stripes that I really like) I also like how you build on the idea of having two kinds of squad leaders: Veterans #1 (Candidates) and Veterans #2 (fully fledged Deathwalkers). This is unique to your chapter.

Nah, I'm using that to make a nod to the 3rd Ed Codex where you could have your standard Veteran Sergeant and then upgrade him to a Deathwing Sergeant with the "stubborn" 3rd Ed rule that got conferred onto his squad while he was alive.

 

Have you made any fluff relating to your Stoneburners?

Yeah, I have, but it really isn't any condition to post. I'm trying to complete an IA, which I will end up posting over in the Librarium when I'm comfortable with what I have gotten together. It's mostly cobbled together gobbledygook that I've taken from various sources.

 

Or, better yet, use black helmets for your standard troopers. This will solve everything and place them visually more apart to Disciples (you have to admit the schemes are very close for standard marines)! As you can tell I am a big fan of your stripes :).

Consider your idea yoinked! See above.

 

Yeah, I actually really liked the Disciples color scheme, which is probably why it looks very similar. One of the reasons that I originally went with the green helmet is that I was worried about my army looking too much like a green version of the Flesh Tearers. However, now that I've gone back over the Codexes really well, I realize that the green helmet actually made them look more like green Flesh Tearers than less.

 

Glad you like the stripes. :huh: I actually originally got the idea to do them from Vadskaer's DA Veteran Marines here:

Vadskaer's DA Veteran Marine with Stripe 1

and here:

Vadskaer's DA Veteran Marine with Stripe 2

 

With Deathwalkers it

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, getting the base color for the bone blocked in. Black and highlights on the body completed, battle damage, eyes, luminas other than crystals, and brass icons/details all finished, with a bit of clean up on the brass still. Some of it got a little too silvered.

So, here's the current line up:

Sergeant (will have a red stripe down the enter of the helm):

Head is a bit out of focus:

Needs some highlight clean up:

Think I like the brass crux on this the best:

Brass is a little too silvered, will be the Cyclone launcher Terminator:

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lookin' good so far Bryan, your scheme is going to rock.

 

CnC though.... you need light on the front of the models for your pics, they're too dark. :P

 

stobz