Sons of Horus Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I was just wondering if the Custodes could fall to Chaos. IIRC fluff states that they are incorruptible and none have ever fallen but would it actually be possible? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If the fluff says they're incorruptible and none have fallen in 10,000 years then I would say no, it's not possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2683889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If the fluff says they're incorruptible and none have fallen in 10,000 years then I would say no, it's not possible. Yeah, while that might be factual, that statement doesn't sit well with me. Incorruptible denotes eternity. 10,000 years isn't an eternity against which to measure statements like 'it's not possible'. And an example of the incorruptible being corrupted would be Mr Lupercal. Im pretty sure Empy would have put a similar amount of effort into the creation of Horus as he would these 'incorruptible' Custodes, so regardless of their track record I would say given enough justification / temptation / torture / favorable environment etc etc, they should be corruptible. But I don't write lore, I just speculate heavily on it so it's just my 2 cents ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 AHEM. No TEMPLAR has ever turned either. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 AHEM. No TEMPLAR has ever turned either. ;) Give me a Templar, a daemonette, some baby oil (made with real babies) and an industrial sized tub of ice cream...............He'll turn B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I think the Custodes' spiritual fortitude has something to do with their creation. The primarchs were almost perfect, but were spirited away before the Emprah got a chance to introduce himself per se and induct them into his plans. The Custodes have been around the Emprah for almost their entire lives, and I believe where his guardians during the Unification Wars as well. That much direct exposure to the purest and mightiest of human psychic presence would undoubtedly have shaped their loyalties and personalities. Even the Astartes of the Crusade era only were in the direct presence of the big guy only once their entire lives if they were lucky, maybe two or three times if they were particularly skilled enough to survive such momentous campaigning. Custodians were around the Emperor constantly, all day, every day. Who knows what hidden lore or additional insight they might have had with the Emperor for all of their camaraderie with him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Ehhh possible but unlikely. It would take some damn good writing not to make it seem trite and boring. *insert Skeletor voice* "And then the unturnable turned to CHAOS! Wait..what was that...why? Why you say? BECAUSE ITS CHAOS MREHEHEHEHEHEH!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 That much direct exposure to the purest and mightiest of human psychic presence would undoubtedly have shaped their loyalties and personalities. Even the Astartes of the Crusade era only were in the direct presence of the big guy only once their entire lives if they were lucky, maybe two or three times if they were particularly skilled enough to survive such momentous campaigning. Custodians were around the Emperor constantly, all day, every day. Who knows what hidden lore or additional insight they might have had with the Emperor for all of their camaraderie with him? Again to use Mr Lupercal as an example but wasn't it him and Empy, side by side, back to back, just the two of them etc etc for quite some time before the other Primarchs were found? If the mightiest can fall, then I'd say there's room to speculate that Custodes could go the same route. Edit: Addendum; Horus and Empy saved each others lives on at least one occasion each. Events like that are said to bond people quite closely :D So again if Horus can go down that road....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 But also consider the responsibilities of their postings. Horus, once Warmaster, was entrusted to go off and continue the Crusade through unknown space and defeat whatever he came across, without the protection and reassurance of his father. The Custodians were always with the Big Guy. plus I feel like I read in the Collected Visions book something about their souls being melded to the Emperor's, but I'm not certain, and may have just made that up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 But also consider the responsibilities of their postings. Horus, once Warmaster, was entrusted to go off and continue the Crusade through unknown space and defeat whatever he came across, without the protection and reassurance of his father. The Custodians were always with the Big Guy. plus I feel like I read in the Collected Visions book something about their souls being melded to the Emperor's, but I'm not certain, and may have just made that up. Hmm.....that's a compelling argument, one I'm going to have difficulty arguing against......here goes. From what I understand (four important words people), Horus started his road to damnation fairly quickly after Empy went home to finish his interstellar jigsaw (read webway, I'm being facetious). It wasn't long after his appointment to Warmaster that Erebus came on the scene and....well.......you know. To use Constantin Valdor, CHIEF Custodian as an example (and attempt not to give spoilers), He's away from Empy for long periods of time, as are other Custodes in The First Heretic. As par for the course their loyalty isn't going to be in question, but given the rational used above that absence of Empy's guiding light whilst on deep space missions leaves you potentially vulnerable to thoughts of betrayal, again I'm gonna churn out my soon to be boring maxim.......... If Horus can fall.......... Edit: I'm not sure about the Custodes souls being linked to Empy's....maybe you're thinking of the soul bonding with the 1k sons from the amazing Dornian Heresy? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2684474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Ok yes, technically anything is possible in the 40k universe if we start going down this route. Guilliman could technically heal despite being in stasis, Abbaddon could actually be successful with a Black Crusade etc etc... But as all we have to go on is the actual fluff that is written I would say we have to put the possibility of a Custode falling to chaos at 99.99% recurring that it isn't going to happen. Or else we will go round and round in merry circles LOL! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2685000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I was just wondering if the Custodes could fall to Chaos. IIRC fluff states that they are incorruptible and none have ever fallen but would it actually be possible? Ok yes, technically anything is possible in the 40k universe if we start going down this route. Guilliman could technically heal despite being in stasis, Abbaddon could actually be successful with a Black Crusade etc etc... But as all we have to go on is the actual fluff that is written I would say we have to put the possibility of a Custode falling to chaos at 99.99% recurring that it isn't going to happen. Or else we will go round and round in merry circles LOL! So, I guess you've just answered your own question then :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2685149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 There are many Chapters that there is no evidence that they have turned traitor like the Templars. But unlike the Templars the Custodians it is said have never turned traitor, its not there is no source material yet showing them renegade its that we are told that they dont, its like the Grey Knights really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2685194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I was just wondering if the Custodes could fall to Chaos. IIRC fluff states that they are incorruptible and none have ever fallen but would it actually be possible? Ok yes, technically anything is possible in the 40k universe if we start going down this route. Guilliman could technically heal despite being in stasis, Abbaddon could actually be successful with a Black Crusade etc etc... But as all we have to go on is the actual fluff that is written I would say we have to put the possibility of a Custode falling to chaos at 99.99% recurring that it isn't going to happen. Or else we will go round and round in merry circles LOL! So, I guess you've just answered your own question then ;) Err...it wasn't my question LOL! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2688125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixthra Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Oops, Basic Reading crits Vixthra in the face for 39975 lol. Apologies :-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2688304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCHAOS Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I would say a big fat NO, as looking at the HH books they would even fight the Primarch's for saying the wrong thing against the big E. Plus we have all forgot about the new release, NO GREY KNIGHT HAS EVER TURNT TO CHAOS! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2688494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I would say a big fat NO, as looking at the HH books they would even fight the Primarch's for saying the wrong thing against the big E.Plus we have all forgot about the new release, NO GREY KNIGHT HAS EVER TURNT TO CHAOS! :D I have always loved the possibility of a fallen grey knight as a special character for the CSMs... I don't know why, but with twisting fluff over the past few years, words like "never" and "always" have become somewhat meaningless in the way GW has written codecies and game background. I thought Ahriman was the best sorcerer/psycher ever except for Magnus and the Emperor, yet in current format, a standard Ork weirdboy seems to have more probability of stopping any psychic power Ahriman uses. I dunno... fallen custodian/GK in the next Chaos Codex...? Highly unlikely, I agree but it would be pretty awesome... And not entirely impossible, given the way they have used words like "never" in fluff 15 years ago and since, kicked it out the house and given it cab fare back to it's mother's house. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2693607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 AHEM. No TEMPLAR has ever turned either. :tu: What about that scene in Daemonifuge Book 2- where several Black Templar appear to have been corrupted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Guilliman could technically heal despite being in stasis, Actually, quite technically, Guiliman can't heal despite being in stasis because he's in stasis. It's impossible, like just physically impossible :) it's not physically impossible for a Custodes to turn to Chaos because he hasn't got like, I dunno some sort of fool-proof anti-Chaos force field. AHEM. No TEMPLAR has ever turned either. :cuss What about that scene in Daemonifuge Book 2- where several Black Templar appear to have been corrupted? The Deamonifuge series is pretty non-canon. It also says in the Witch Hunters codex that no Sister of Battle has ever fallen to Chaos but in the graphic novel it happens like every 2 pages lol As for the whole Custodes thing, many claims have been made that a certain group of people have never fallen to Chaos, as the aforementioned Sisters of Battle example, but it's not impossible to imagine that were it to happen, nobody would ever find out about it. Same with Grey Knights, Their whole shtick is that they're super anti-Chaos so if ever one did fall it would ruin their image. So the High Lords of Terra would keep it quiet innit. Not entirely unlikely. Yay for jumping in the middle of discussions! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 No, just plain no. This is a can we have female marines no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 only way i see a custode turning is if he literally had his brain scooped out and replaced by a chaos killomatic 5000 brain unit. (paten pending :D ) but seriously no, a custode would rarther rip his own man vegetables of, roll them in pasty, bake for 40 minutes then eat it of a rusty rotating chainsword rarther than simply pick his nose in the name of chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 There were some pretty good discussions as to whether...: ...the Adeptus Sororitas were corruptible - here... ...as well as the Black Templars - here. In the end, it's down to your own preference of fluff and what you want to take from it - not what canonical fluff overrides the other. GW writers don't think like that and neither should we. As for the Adeptus Custodes they're probably on par (or nearly on par) with the Grey Knights when is comes to this - Haven't been corrupted so far and probably won't ever be corrupted. Doesn't mean their isn't a slight possibility that it could happen in theory. But as much as some would like to see this happen I can't see GW making it happen in the near future. If you plan on creating your own army or doing some writing then go for it. As long as you don't mind causing some controversy amongst stubborn fluff-mongers feel free to fantasise away - 40K is a medium that thrives on user creativity and interactivity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 In the end, it's down to your own preference of fluff and what you want to take from it - not what canonical fluff overrides the other. GW writers don't think like that and neither should we. And one of the main characters in the Daemonifuge books (Inquisitor Silas Hand) appears in the Inquisitor rulebook (though only as a picture). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2696774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I agree with Oiad. People forget, this is our hobby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2697022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I agree with Oiad. People forget, this is our hobby. Yeah! and since it is MY hobby, with a shared fluff, I would say that a Custodes falling is iffy ground. Could it be done? Sure. Does it grate against established fluff and seem like a bit of chaos-fan:cussy? Yes. One could also write how a Chapter of Space Marines skipped merrily into the Eye of Terror, gave Abaddon a Power Wedgie, and then sat down and had polite dinner with the Nidz and Orks and negotiated lasting peace treaties with both. Ork and Nidz complete with Top Hats and monocles, of course. It would be a high class affair. :woot: But like the Custodes scenario it would take a hell of a good writer to pull it off and make it sound awesome. Compare the Dornian Heresy with many other...less polished shall we say...alternate heresies out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224422-could-one-of-the-custodes-fall-to-chaos/#findComment-2697180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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