Vixthra Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When you say works studied in the 41st millenium i hope you dont mean the book of lorgar, as it mentions in TFH that Erebus writes a lot of that. Also technically he is not alive anymore, he is a Deamon now. Nope I refer to the Lectitio Divinitatus, foundation and cornerstone of Imperial Faith :whistling: And the technicality of alive/deamon is one I'm happy to gloss over.......you say 'tomato', I say 'lying-in-wait-on-Sicarus-plotting-your-demise' ......:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When you say works studied in the 41st millenium i hope you dont mean the book of lorgar, as it mentions in TFH that Erebus writes a lot of that. Also technically he is not alive anymore, he is a Deamon now. Nope I refer to the Lectitio Divinitatus, foundation and cornerstone of Imperial Faith :whistling: Ahhhh Touché Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When you say works studied in the 41st millenium i hope you dont mean the book of lorgar, as it mentions in TFH that Erebus writes a lot of that. Also technically he is not alive anymore, he is a Deamon now. Like you i do not think Lorgar is a coward, after all he charged Corax with the full knowledge that his brother would easily beat him. I still do consider Lorgar rather snivelling, but then from his point of view his beliefs were crushed by the most important person to him, so it would have an effect on the guy. There was no way Lorgar was a coward. I certainly got the impression he didn't fear death, but rather welcomed it, actually desiring it, at the hands of Corax. Did anyone else get that impression? The Lightning Tower and The Dark King go into why Dorn was terrified of Curze and his Legion. It's not a far stretch, the man who could build fortresses not relishing the prospect of facing a foe that no fortress could defend against. Even Perturabo didn't frighten Dorn; the Night Haunter very certainly did, but to give Dorn some measure of credit, he didn't balk from his duty even in the face of that fear. Awesome. Shame the BL doesn't release either of these 2 books as an actual novelette, as I don't want an audio book. I don't need someone else to read to me as I'm an adult! :whistling: Still, it is all the more heroic for a man to face something despite fear. Go Dorn. Only a mad man knows no fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When I listened to the Dark King and Lightning Tower I got the impression that Dorn did not fear Curze as much as you guys seem to suggest.. He feared the reason for Horus's rebellion and that he may himself be swayed by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'd like to point out that I'm fairly sure it is mentioned that only the Emperor had ever bested Russ in one on one combat (Not including the Lion, because that was a cheap shot, the combat was technically over). Therefore we can only guess which way it would go, Russ might be able to take Horus on, unlikely once he had been blessed by the forces of Chaos though. Before the Heresy maybe, and perhaps Russ regrets not annihilating the favoured brother but he didn't know. Russ would have wanted to fight right until his last breath, even if it meant the death of his Legion. So long as the combat was one of glory and worthy of telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When I listened to the Dark King and Lightning Tower I got the impression that Dorn did not fear Curze as much as you guys seem to suggest.. He feared the reason for Horus's rebellion and that he may himself be swayed by it. Indeed. IIRC Dorn was not affraid of Curze as an opponent. He was affraid because he did not understand why the Primarchs would turn and what Curze had seen that made him go insane. He feared that if he himself was confronted by those things, that he too might not be able to stay loyal or sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelle1880 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 All I have to say is that The Wolf has cut people in two for less. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 If you think any primarch could be "scared" then you don't know what primarchs are designed for and what their legions and they are capable of! that's all I will add, I was ready to use CAP LOCKS on you but it seems like everyone else here have educated you more so than my patience will. LOL jk They can be scared, Horus got scared from Temba's vision and Chaos, Rogal Dorn was afraid of Curze, Lorgar's nearly every act stemmed from fear of getting expunged ,even Emperor knows fear. yes I know, and all very true! however, what I got from the OP felt and implied, that Russ was more of a chicken :cuss , and a coward. Which IMHO doesn't really sit well with me, or should anyone who had their own primarch called out as chicken :cuss, in their own respected chapter/legion. And I'm not saying all this because I'm a SW player. I also like the Death Guard and Night Lords. As i have already posted at least twice in this thread, my OP was just something i had thought up as a plot-line if the HH was being rewrote or if i had been alive when the storyline was first written and had the chance to throw in some ideas. Disclaimer: I DO NOT, NOR EVER WILL BELIEVE RUSS IS A CHICKEN, OR THAT HE WOULD EVER BE SCARED TO FIGHT ONE OF HIS BROTHERS. Jeez, i think i should have chose a different subject to start a topic about that was less likely to create an angry mob hunting me down ;) but in all seriousness, this isnt the first 40k forum ive joined, and ive been into 40k and WHF background/fluff for years now, ive read all the HH books and most of the other novels, and read nearly everything on Lexicanum. Not boasting or bigging myself up here im jst trying to point out that i havent jst glanced over a codex and decided to throw my 2 pennies worth in. Sorry if any devoted sons of russ took offense to this topic, it was just an idea, more like a fan-fiction idea rather than a theory on anything :D All I have to say is that The Wolf has cut people in two for less. <_< Pfff I could take him ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Going by what little is told in this ancient Codex, the Emperor gets wounded but too late in the game, and Horus and Co. are forced to retreat to the Eye after the Imperial counterattack drives them off Terra, with Horus swearing that one day he'll return to finish the job. :devil: Just checked through the relevant sections of my own copy of the 2nd Edition Space Wolves book, and I'm not seeing this. There's a mention early on about Russ returning to fight at the final battle against a returned Horus, but this is made out as a speculative piece, more legend than anything else - made stronger some years later when Abbadon was introduced in the Chaos Codex, as a sort of "Return of Horus" type character. Entirely possible that we're looking at different printings or something, though. What's the page number for this in your copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Going by what little is told in this ancient Codex, the Emperor gets wounded but too late in the game, and Horus and Co. are forced to retreat to the Eye after the Imperial counterattack drives them off Terra, with Horus swearing that one day he'll return to finish the job. :huh: Just checked through the relevant sections of my own copy of the 2nd Edition Space Wolves book, and I'm not seeing this. There's a mention early on about Russ returning to fight at the final battle against a returned Horus, but this is made out as a speculative piece, more legend than anything else - made stronger some years later when Abbadon was introduced in the Chaos Codex, as a sort of "Return of Horus" type character. Entirely possible that we're looking at different printings or something, though. What's the page number for this in your copy? I think it's the speculative piece that's got my brain rewired. It read to me that Horus didn't die and that he would be back, hence the bit about Russ's return when Horus returned. If the allusion was towards Abaddon, then that makes more sense than how it seemed to read to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsil the Death Dealer Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 ^ IIRC, no where in any of the 2nd edition fluff does it mention Horus being alive after the battle with the Emperor. I have all the 2nd edition books back at the house (deployed) and I've read them all quite a bit over the years. If that did in fact did happen that's a huge change in the fluff. Before the Horus Heresy novels it was always rumored that Abaddon was a clone of Horus....maybe got confused? As for Russ being a chicken.....well lets just say I would never.....even if I was a Primarch, Chaos God, or even the Emperor himself call Leman Russ a chicken and expect to just walk away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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