FerociousBeast Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Fluffwise- Ward seems to be a fan of "long lone warrior combats"- with Calgar defending a gate against an ork horde for a day and a night, Draigo defending a mountain pass against a daemon horde for two days. Precisely. And it's stuff like this that has no place in 40k. Not necessarily because Calgar couldn't kill "a day and a night's" worth of Orks in hand to hand combat, but because it has no place in a science fiction setting--or perhaps a future fantasy setting with guns. In Fantasy, you can get away with saying someone holds a mountain pass and stymies the enemy, 300 style. In 40k, though, why didn't the Orks get some lootas to shoot Calgar down? Why didn't the Daemons fly over Draigo? Why? Because Mat Ward wanted to write some Rar!/Hur!/Strumstrumstrum-Heavy metal!/Video-game scene with one dude senselessly killing hordes of enemies. To hell with logic. I will add another. Sanguinor versus the Bloodthirster. Do I have a problem with some mystery being killing a Bloodthirster? No, not really. Do I have a problem with a man-sized person (S5 in the rules) lifting an elephant-sized Bloodthirster in the air, and his single-engine jump pack firing both of them--who must weigh together at least 8 tons--hundreds of feet into the air? Yes. That part strains credulity. Does it meet the "rule of awesome"? Not to me, but perhaps some adolescents and anime fans might like it. But it's certainly the kind of thing that someone like me who's about to see the ass side of 30 gets next to zero enjoyment from. It's just dumb and it doesn't match the classic, pseudo-scifi tone of the 40k many of us got hooked on. If these little vignettes were rare and isolated, I wouldn't care so much. But they show up over and over and over again in Ward's writing and are affecting the tone of the setting. I personally don't care for his rules, either, but since I don't play the game much anymore, it's his banal fluff that irks me most. While the Dark Angels do have well established fluff, don't think it's beyond Ward's reach. He can add new characters and units that change significant parts of the chapter's backstory (see Sanguinary Guard, turbo-charged engines, and all of Codex Grey Knights) and he can write new episodes in existing character's stories that change our understanding of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Sure. Generally balanced rules, decent fluff (needs a better editor from time to time) means he could produce a solid DA codex most likely. He has done a good job and the railings against his fluff are generally, IMO, hilarious. For example, the Avatar scene in C:SM. Often described as "Calgar punching out and Avatar" like that is all that happened. 1) Can happen on the tabletop with some regularity. 2) Described in universe as the Avatar getting pummeled by Dev fire, Terminators, and the kitchen sink that the Ultramarines throw at it. Followed by Calgar hitting it right before passing out and having to be carried to the Apothecarion. Note the omission of certain information in the usual online description. Rather like the "brofist" alliance between Necrons and Blood Angels. If by alliance you mean "not killing the xenos" and risking his depleted force, then yes. Of course, then I question why no one raises eyebrows at the horrible fluff instances in other Codices. Off hand: One Tyranid organism eats an ENTIRE CRAFTWORLD! *insert skeletor laugh* One tank commander takes out HOW many enemy titans and such? While surviving his tank being blow up again and again? From a TITAN? The karskin/stormtrooper sergeant who walked through a nurgle daemon army a-ok. I believe there is some Orky bits about an Ork riding his bike through space, but it has been way too long since I read that book. In short: Over the top is part of 40K. Always has been. Other authors have done the same thing. Does that mean everything Ward has written has been good? No, of course not, neither rules nor fluff wise. But comparing it to the other codices currently out reveals similar instances of over-the-top fluff. *disclaimer: Have not read the GK codex, so I cannot and shall not say anything about it one way or the other. Its a Grey Knight book. Woohoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I will note that all of your examples are from 5th edition codexes, and are all from Cruddace, save for the "ork riding through space" example which is inaccurate. So your argument that "over the top" has always been part of 40k needs further backing up. The Ork in question, can't remember his name, teleports his bike through the warp, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 No, I never hope Matt Ward gets to write our codex. Why? Because due to him, the Dark Angels chapter is a second-rate chapter, that could never hope to be great, like the Ultramarines. In White Dwarf he also said that the Blood Angels are so cool compared to the Dark Angels, because they never let their dark side control them. Do I want a guy that does not understand our chapter to write their codex? ^_^ no! Phil Kelly on the other hand did a good job in portraying the Spacewolfs, without insulting other chapters, but instead showed a strong an independent chapter who had its own way ofdoing things. I really like the fact that the new codex´ is bigger and full of more fluff than previous, but i dislike most of Wards fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 "I supported the codex reformation from the beginning out of respect for Roboute Guilliman, who is my spiritual liege. Since my own knowledge of warfare is severely lacking I was overjoyed when my Legion was given the opportunity to learn from a more competent general's experience. My only regrets are that we, rather than they, were charged with protecting Terra, and that thanks to my inferior gene-seed my sons can never be true Ultramarines." -Rogal Dorn, primarch of the Imperial Fists. Just out of curiosity where is this quoted from, it sounds more like fan fiction to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 He shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 "I supported the codex reformation from the beginning out of respect for Roboute Guilliman, who is my spiritual liege. Since my own knowledge of warfare is severely lacking I was overjoyed when my Legion was given the opportunity to learn from a more competent general's experience. My only regrets are that we, rather than they, were charged with protecting Terra, and that thanks to my inferior gene-seed my sons can never be true Ultramarines." -Rogal Dorn, primarch of the Imperial Fists. Just out of curiosity where is this quoted from, it sounds more like fan fiction to me... It could be Fan fiction but sure does sound something that Matt Ward would say. Even worse he might even use this for DA. He might even make El'Johnson say this himself. The horror. The HORROR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Hail Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The ork in question drove his bike into the comand pulpit of a titian, thew a void shield and when has big enough waaah can drive threw the warp.... Now on to us, NNNOOOO!!!!!!! Why do you ask, he helped kill fantasy in my area, and helped ruin my Choas fantesy army (that is now suddenly becoming 40k converted....). Our fluff is done in parables and is cryptic because we want to see who in are own ranks sees the meaning behind the words, or i have gone crazy.... Either way whom ever does do the next codex i hope does a bloody good job, and will not be eclipse when the bloody vinilla marines whine we got a better codex then them again............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTheImp Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I hate his fluff, but he can make good competitive army lists, whether or not they'll conform to the fluff we're used to is a different matter. Would I be OK with him doing it? I suppose, not like I'd have a choice in the matter anyways, but at least he'd make the army competitive. Really though, it's hard to make a book worse than what we have in terms of customization and options, it's flat out dull! Heck we can't even use a Dreadnought variant WE developed. My first choice for author would be Phil Kelly though, his work on the Space Wolves was fantastic, and I would love to see the Dark Angels get a similar makeover, even if it means putting "thunderlions" into it. The fluff is exceptional and the army is arguably THE army of competitive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Since this has developed into yet another thread about Matt Ward's ability to write codex/fluff and there's quite a number of threads dealing with this particular subject plus added to teh fact it is an already subjective question akin to "would you like Tom Clancy to write the next DA codex", thsi thread is officially closed. If anyone has a good reason for the thread to be re-opened or why it should stay open, please send a PM detailing it. until then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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