like the lion Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 im gonna be playing the tyranids in a few days. i have never played them before so i dont know what to expect. i may go all deathwing of just regular DA. the plan so far is to light them up. lots of krak missiles and snipers. what tips can you give me? i know my oponent likes to use gaunts and monstrous creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 He will have 2X or maybe even 3X more minis if he is running hoard. If he is running MC I can't remember I don't think those Krak Missles will be doing any Insta Killing and seem wasted on gaunts. My son beat me as him DA and me Tyranids. He beat me a few times, but finally my DoM fianlly did something on the 4th game and killed like 8 guys so there went his army. It all depends on what he fields. If MC and gaunts and no Warriors you will not be Insta Killing anything. Deathwing may last a bit longer with FNP but if he is using say 30 Devilgaunts that is 90 shots. 90 shots, 45 hit, 22 wound, 10 failed saves, so you can see you can get lots of dead units. Then again this is not scientific but seems to work for me agaisnt 3+ saves, would be different with 2+ saves but still. Once you loose your bodeis and if it is a sceanrio game, you will not have many squads to claim and or deny those objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Squeeze as many shots into your army as possible. HB's , ML's, and plasma guns. Stay out of CC, you lose the initiative battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringer of Redemption Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Tyranids are a pain to beat--I should know, they're the army I play (and loose to) the most. You can't overwhelm them with shooting, so you have to pick your targets carefully. If you can take out synapse creatures, then his army will loose cohesion, but most players tend to compensate for this by using warrior squads, which will hold the line and keep synapse intact pretty well. As a rule of thumb, the bigger and meaner looking a model is, the more you want to kill it. The only problem is you still have to prioritize amongst the MCs. Tervigons are just plain nasty. They're damn near impossible to kill, and they just keep spawning gaunts. Of all of the various MCs, these are probably the ones I hate the most. Also, the train of though "If I can't beat them at shooting then I should assault them" is just plain wrong. If being careful when picking shooting targets is important, being careful with assaults is paramount to success, so there are a couple of rules: #1. Don't let them get the drop on you. It doesn't matter if you're using the best assault unit in the DA codex, if a 'Nid unit dedicated to kicking ass and taking names in close combat gets the charge, you're dead. Even when you're doing the charging, expect losses. #2. Always ask, "Is it worth it?" That gaunt squad may be annoying, but if it's going to take three turns to kill in HTH, then you're probably better off finding another option. You never want your units tied up in combat unless it's the only way to stop the flood of bugs, because they're firepower/assault skills will be needed elsewhere. Finally, while kill all of you enemy's units is always a win condition, don't expect it to happen. I've been facing 'nids for 2 and 1/2 years, and maybe once in all that time have I won completely (not that I have that many wins to compare it too...). Expect the battle to be either distinctly one sided (I've had vastly superior forces left over on occasion) or a grueling, high casualty affair (this is by far more common). Good luck, --BoR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Don't be afraid to walk backwards most of the game, to maximize your shooting before he gets to assault you. Personally, given a choice, I would *usually* rather be in cover when the tyranids get the charge, than get the charge myself. Very, very few nids get assault grenades, and many of them are I5 or higher. So, if you have (say) TH/SS termies or powerfist termies, a decent-sized genestealer unit can potentially kill you all before you get to strike back, even if you charged them; if you make them charge you, though, and you're in cover, you get 10 attacks on them, which should be 4-5 dead stealers. Not a great bargain, but better than nothing, particularly if you have another termie squad or two in range to finish 'em off in shooting next turn. Tyranids work by overloading your ability to shoot them in time before they hit you in close combat. So, proper target priority is key. You probably want to prioritize the fast-moving or infiltrating stuff (genestealers, again, probably, but maybe gargoyles, and definitely raveners if he's running them), but there are times (notably if a lot of the shooting in your army is from vehicles) when you may need to hit the hive guard first, because the hive guard are what is shooting back at your vehicles, killing or suppressing them every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Personally, given a choice, I would *usually* rather be in cover when the tyranids get the charge, than get the charge myself. Very, very few nids get assault grenades, and many of them are I5 or higher.This cannot be stressed enough as it is one of many codex flaws that the 'Nids suffer from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skink Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Personally, given a choice, I would *usually* rather be in cover when the tyranids get the charge, than get the charge myself. This. If you're going to get charged, get charged in cover, as it means your squad will still get to swing. I've only played against nids once and this is the main thing I took away from it, but I can also recommend deploying nowhere near the sides of the board, as outflanking 'stealers are horrible (especially as they're fleet, right?). Missile spam took out the MCs fairly easily (didn't seem like particularly good or bad rolling on my or their part, but is this the norm?), and don't underestimate the little beasties either, they'll grind you down through sheer numbers. The next time I play them I'll keep my squads fairly close together (or run them about in pairs; 1 shooty + 1CC ) so they are aways supported. Unfortunatley I'm not at all experienced at playing against them, so my advice is quite superficial I'm afraid! I unerstand quite an effective tactic is hitting a depleted mini-beast squad and an MC in a multiassault; you put most/all your attacks on the little ones, win combat, and force the MC to take a bunch of fearless wounds (more than you might cause otherwise). Might be quite difficult to orchestrate though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Its really hard to give ideas without knowing either army... But you've been given nice advice... here goes my quick thoughts: - Know what armour saves each bug packs. It sounds stupid and obvious, but the're isn't anything better than using the proper tool for the best effect. For example, Hive tyrants and mawglocs and the similar... they are TOUGH ( T6, 6W most of the times)... but have a measly 3+ save. Guess what, most S8+ weapons have AP3 or better...so 3+,2+, you have 55% chances of scoring a wound he won't be able to save (MC get cover just like vehicles...). Bolters and flamers have AP5...so small bugs (anything that isnt MC, warriors or zooans) will fall easy to them. - Templates are your friend. Most nid builds have 2-6 MC, 4-12 middle bugs and around 100 small ones. Try to avoid using quality shots on cheap units. - Beware of counter-charges. Wow, those zooans sitting just out of cover seem quite juicy... why does he do that? Because 3-4 warrior with bone swords will make short work of anything, even hammenators. - Don't take the beating. I'd say only IG can "hold the line" and withstand a nid assault... and that is because they have the best gunline along with heavy support that will massacre any swarm. So stay on the move, get in cover to benefit from initiatives like Ian suggested. Let us know how it goes! Edit, hiting/wounding MC is 3+ 2+...corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Another thing to consider, if he does have infiltrating genestealers (scarier for me than outflanking ones, but YMMV), is to have one unit quite a bit forward of your others, to push back the infiltraters a bit. If it's a fast unit, better still, so it doesn't even need to be a sacrifice, but even a Deathwing squad can work OK. You will get at least one turn of SB fire at them, you can hopefully sit in cover so as to at least get to swing, and he won't be able to multi-assault as he might if all your units were close to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 That is exactly what I did in my last game vs Nids... spear head, my melta bikers and speeders covering as far as possible in my area. However, I think the best genes are the Ymargl ones...you chose a scenary element and when you go in by reserves, they come in from there, move and assault normally. They are a great bases tarpiting unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Don't be afraid to walk backwards most of the game, to maximize your shooting before he gets to assault you. Agreed. The backpedaling tactics of shooty Deathwing (especially pre-FAQ) come to mind. Full TH/SS are all the rage now, but a hoard is simply going to overwhelm them. A pair of whirlwinds would be useful. If he is running MC I can't remember I don't think those Krak Missles will be doing any Insta Killing and seem wasted on gaunts. Yea, I believe most of the MC's are str 6. But at least they are wounding on 2s and I don't feel they are totally useless against the little bugs, at least not the CML kraks, a couple blast markers on a squad that has the a potential to get more bunched up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollywoodSAF Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Brodher have faithe in the Emperor and bring S++++ loads of gunns. The more led you can trow in to them the better. Well it workt for me when i meet them. Have faite in the emperor bicase your brodhers have faithe in you! Best of luck and let us know how it whent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Yeah, Ymgarl genestealers are amazing (I play Nids and use them in most games... they took out a Defiler on the first turn I ever used them, and by the end of that game they were trying to get hits in on his Land Raider because they and Doom had killed pretty much everything else in his army). They're definitely less common at present than regular stealers though. Ymgarls are all about second-guessing which bit of area terrain he put them in -- but there's not usually a whole lot you can do even if you guessed right, other than stay away from that area to mitigate the damage. In theory you can occupy the suspect bit of terrain yourself, to stop them coming on at all, but against a good player, that bit of terrain is exactly where you don't want to be, if you don't want to be steamrollered by the rest of his force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledonati Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 1:stay in cover 2:shot to CM 3:pray the lion cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage20059 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 My main opponent plays Nids. I just recently started with DA. So far my DW with Cyclones have fared well against him. Krak missiles are wonderous vs Warriors. Especially if he doesn't field a Prime with them. As mentioned before Cover kills nids. Maximize fire power for sure and concentrate it on one thing. Do not spread your fire out or you will not do enough damage to matter before he gets to you. I try to prioritize targets: Tervigon Trygon Warriors Most effective way I have dealt with the Tervigon is dual charge him and the broods around him if possible. Watch him topple to amount of fearless saves he has to take. hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
like the lion Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 ok i have come up with this list so far. HQ belial with banner sammy in speeder TROOPS 2x5 terminators- all hammers, cyclone ELITES 2x10 scouts- 8 snipers dreadnought- twin las, venerable status FAST 3x typhoon landspeeders with multi meltas HEAVY 3x preadators- Heavy bolters this list leaves me with 125 points left. i have been thinking of swapping sammy for a librarian since i know he might use zoanthropes, i want the pshychic hood. the plan with this list is for sammy to ride out with the speeders and try to destroy as many big bugs as possible with the scouts infiltrating and picking at them also. belial and the dread will stay behind with the predators providing long range fire and waiting for them to come closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Sammy+assaulting big bugs= jet bike debris all over the board :) I see very few troops there (usually, its 1 unit/500 points in the list) and the scouts + dread seem quite overloaded... I'd keep them as cheap as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
like the lion Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 i dont plan on assaulting the bugs with sammy. im gonna field him in his speeder and lay down fire. im not gonna be playing any scenarios. ill probably cut the las off the dreadnought and maybe a sniper or two from the scouts. im probably gonna add another termie squad with the remaining points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 What are you going to play then? I assumed the BRB missions...I'm curious now ;) As for using the Sammy to shoot MC...I think he will be more useful vs light infantry... but let us know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledonati Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 HQ belial with banner you need apothecary, fnp best to +1a for me. sammy in speeder sammy? and motos? best LRC.. TROOPS 2x5 terminators- all hammers, cyclone best 1/2LC and 3/4 THSS... tyr not have granades... ELITES 2x10 scouts- 8 snipers add PF and plasma pistol to sarge dreadnought- twin las, venerable status add flamer FAST 3x typhoon landspeeders with multi meltas ok, anain tyr also HBolter is goodHEAVY 3x preadators- Heavy bolters ok 2 troops are really little my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 2 troops are really little Totally agree. Perhaps since you are bringing Sammeal, you could work in some bikes or like mentioned above, another Terminator squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 He said above he doesnt care about scoring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZ_AV_NZ Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 1850 points i played in Tourn and killed the nids army 50% in end of 2nd turn 4 tac squads with Las Cannons and one with plasma cannon plasma guns and a melta support guns couple sarges had power weapons dread with Plasma cannon and hvy falmer and fist azreal with vets with plasma pistols and rhino predator with ac and hb Whirl wind 4 rockets in a dev team use ya 5 man squads and rhinos to block charges - slow them down - also use overlapping fields of fire keep a team of melta - and plasma guns close incase of deep striking stuff - two squads reserve dread can assit in a reserve role as well no need to charge az foward he can stay back - let them come to u My build was very effective - i won most my games CSM list is cheaper and more effective but you dont get az Az gives ya vets 4+ inv which is quite good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
like the lion Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 ok heres the new list. HQ belia- banner, apothecary sammy-speeder TROOPS 3X5 terminators-cyclone ELITES 3X dreadnoughts- assault cannon, h.flamer FAST 3X landspeeders- h.bolter, typhoon HEAVY 3X predators- h.bolters., 1 w/ storm bolter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithior Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I honestly think you should drop sammy from the list, for those points you could get 2 whirlwinds, which will do a hell of alot more damage. Speaking of which, you should really consider at least 1, they can do brutal things to large nid swarms. For dealing with MCs try a couple of units of Ravenwing with 2 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol, keep them together and gang them up on a single MC, 10 plasma shots should bring down most beastys he has. Speeders with heavy flamers are brilliant at tackling large squads of smaller beastys, especially if you can pick on the little guys without getting into range of anything that can damage vehicles. Personaly I avoid taking Deathwing against nids, they just don't excel at what you need them to do as well as other choices you can take instead. One last thing, take extra stormbolters on all your vehicles cause for those 5 points you're gonna be able to throw that little bit more fire out most turns. Hope that helps Lithior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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