Noober Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 5 TH/SS terminators alone, no, but when supported by other units, definitely. 10man TH/SS squad with a librarian+nullzone...add vulkan for even more power = paladins most likely dead! :jaw: Luckily no one is taking such a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 i always thought TH termies were an overused unit anyway, im sad to say i expect paladin armies to bring more people into using them. thats never good for the hobby IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ah yeah, i keep forgetting those psycannons have rending..do guys really think 5 hammernators can take on paladins, even with a 3++ you can force enough power weapon wounds to wipe them out before they strike They will dmg the hammanators however not wipe them before they attack. They will do best with swords against hammernators. 5 will go ok but it is very close between the two swith swords, without it favours the hammernators. As soon as the squad gets larger and you put in a banner it get more towards the paladins in 10v10 however the hammanators point for point will always beat them. What is hard to factor in is how much 5 or 10 stormbolters will cut down the hammernators on the way in, but pure assault is with the hammernators. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 i suppose each hit is a potential insta-kill, so its possible to lose half the squad and still win combat.. i thionk the number of storm bolter and psycannon shots can whittle that unit down though, i fully expect the pallies to come out ontop in most games Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 TBH I think the reason we never see 10 man TH+SS plus vulkan, plus libby, is because it's so many points in one unit. But Draigo wing has proved that this kind of unit can be effective, so we might see a rise in this... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noober Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I don't think footslogging TH/SS termies will ever work, even with the gate of infinity power. 2 land raiders with TH/SS termies and vulkan + librarian works a lot better imo. I agree with gc08 that it's not good for the hobby if everyone starts spamming TH/SS termies but I doubt that this will be the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Paladins work because they have 2w and ranged weapon options. Hammernators don't...in a list kitted to kill Pallies, Hammernators are a good tool but shouldn't be the only tool. Paladins put out more shots and more attacks at higher init. They're good but not invincible. Under small arms fire, every 1 they roll for a save is a dead Terminator. That's not true for Paladins by a long shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 ah yeah, i keep forgetting those psycannons have rending..do guys really think 5 hammernators can take on paladins, even with a 3++ you can force enough power weapon wounds to wipe them out before they strike THSS Termies aren't a huge threat to a full ten man Deathstar, but are extremely capable of dropping a 5 man unit, especially when a LR lets you dictate the charge. If you are assaulting a full 10 man Deathstar with THSS Termies you will need to assault it with multiple units. A Ven Dread works wonders to help tie up most of the Paladins and reduce the attacks directed at the THSS Termies. I've seen 5 THSS Termies joined by either Calgar or Lysander dish out some serious hurt to paladins, even with Driago Around. 5 THSS with Either Lysander or Calgar is a match for Driago and a 5 man Paladin unit and its a win for the SM player regardless of the outcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I agree with thade here. 10man paladin squads work because they also have 4 psycannon's. Yes they are rather expensive, but you get ehst you pay for :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Based on Zagman's thesis there, one unit we should be very concerned with is a Storm Raven packing a Furioso Dread with a TH/SS Terminator unit. Even if we drop the thing, it's very likely on top of us when we do given it's cover saves and move speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thade, making me worry about that makes me want to take a psyrifle dread... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thade, making me worry about that makes me want to take a psyrifle dread... belly up to the freakin' bar and throw as many Dreadknights at them as possible. Did I hear that correctly, Nurglez? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thade, making me worry about that makes me want to take a psyrifle dread... Exactly that is no longer a problem as soon as you have your scoring ven psyfleman dread or a couple of normal psyflemans. Like I said they fill the holes in draigowing better than DKs. The paladins are great all round than the hammernators. The hammernators will always win point for point especially with vulcan however they don't shoot down light mech they cant take down a land raider with relative ease they don't absorb as much anti infantry fire dont have wound all can't be scoring the list just goes on. They aren't flexible. They are better in a straight fight against pallies and are a good unit but pallies are always good they can do a lot more than just bash in combat and that is why people are having successes with them. Also if you take psychotroke and blind grenades and add them to a unit with a gm and put on either counterattack or re-roll 1's to wound the GM +5 pallies will smash up 5 hammernators + calgar or lysnader. It goes more in favour of the pallies when both units a brought to 10 man. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 This conversation is taking place in two locations. Instead of re-reiterating my response, I will link to it. <3 Bam! Summary: Dreadknights >= Venerable Dreadnoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 That's not true. NDK are cool but very situational IMO. The psyflemen on the other hand are G $. :D G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 So...what you're saying is... That's not true. I didn't read what you posted there and definitely didn't follow that link. NDK are cool but very situational IMO I haven't thought much on them beyond that. The psyflemen on the other hand are G $ what other people say is better, so I need not offer any reasoning behind this assertion. Did I get that right? :D Listen to the Ultramarine players (like Idaho and GC08): they want you to field Psyriflemen so their trusty LS Typhoons have something to crush. They've been using Typhoons for this very application for years: taking out backfield fire support armor. In general, players are going to be more versed in taking out Dreadnoughts than they are Dreadknights. And that's all on top of what I posted in that link I suspect you didn't read. :D They're not just shiny and new. They handle better under focused fire and have clear shock value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm sure there is some sort of law about quoting someone but changing the quote, I'd call it cheating heh. I still stand by the decision that both are good choices, and achieve similar and different things. I'm also thinking that 2 dk's are better then 1 dk and 1 psyrifle dread. Psyrifle dreads feel cheap, they feel too good, like oblit's or long fangs, part of the reason I wanted a Psyrifle dread was because it would takr the heat off my paladins, buy DK's do this also, and have that nifty shunt thing going on. 1 Psyrifle is mandatory ay 2k points for me, but at less points I'm not so sure... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 DSing Obliterator cult = one dead Ven Dread. OR DSing Obliterator cult = 2-3 wounds on a very angry Dreadknight. That's the example I keep thinking about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 To me an NDK needs a PT & HI to be really effective. For the same amount of points you can take two psyflemen. Like I said the NDK is definitely cool but also very situational. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 not true, PT HI DK is 235 points. 2 psyrifle dreads are 270 points ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 not true, PT HI DK is 235 points. 2 psyrifle dreads are 270 points :P ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I thought we werent supposed to give out points. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranting Fool Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm sure there is some sort of law about quoting someone but changing the quote, I'd call it cheating heh. I still stand by the decision that both are good choices, and achieve similar and different things. I'm also thinking that 2 dk's are better then 1 dk and 1 psyrifle dread. Psyrifle dreads feel cheap, they feel too good, like oblit's or long fangs, part of the reason I wanted a Psyrifle dread was because it would takr the heat off my paladins, buy DK's do this also, and have that nifty shunt thing going on. 1 Psyrifle is mandatory ay 2k points for me, but at less points I'm not so sure... Bah I still think you run the risk of being far outranged since as far as I remember your whole army is 24inch range (Yes those shunting dreads of yours are scary and flamey gits but it's still only once per game) just having 4 str 8 shots hitting on 2+ with reroll (Thats whats you said anyway) sounds too good to pass up:P That and I don't want to end up facing two of those Dreadknights and being roasted ;) One more day to decide dude.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I have decided..... and I'm not telling any of you what I have decided so :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Well, I have 8 days to wait to find out... Or you could pm me :P I'll show you mine if you show me yours... Lists that is :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229135-just-played-my-46th-draigo-wing-game/page/20/#findComment-2857893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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